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Any info on Ankaramy Incorporated?

Rick,
I don't mind using this thread to say that, after the absolutely phenomenal effort you made in the last 48 hours to bring some order back to the Universe, or at least one part of it that was begging for repair, you are forgiven :). Just a Herculean effort to get things right. My utmost compliments.
 
"I'm not going to read back through this thread, but did anyone ever say they weren't pure?" -Bluebeastreptile


Now I am not sure if somebody specifically said that they are not pure, but it was obviously inferred. Matt, in a nut shell, even called me a rat if u read the beginning posts, using one of his expressions by T.O. I believe. Now its months later, i did wait to make sure their pure, and now you guys don't want to hear about it.

If somebody reads this post in the future, I want them to know that the babies did turn out pure, and not like some of you guys made it seem at the beginning.

The first few posts were about me, but they quickly changed to how my ankaramies are "hard to believe, I dare say almost impossible" about being pure. Well I suppose that after all this they are pure, and I just wanted to let the other readers know, and ask the other people I did not about their purity to make sure. And, maybe I was even eager for the "pat on the back" from a few others who thought they weren't pure.

As for the business, I finally convinced my parents a couple days ago to let me get incorporated. I will be taking care of that in the next few days. I will post the info on here if you guys want, but this post has gotten long enough, so if you want more info about my business (Jim, and others if you're interested) just email me in the next few days and i will let you know how its coming. However I have stopped putting my Ankaramy Inc. everywhere in the mean time.

I will not be posting on this thread any longer, so if you have any more questions, feel free to email me. Have a good night guys.

-Adam Weglarz
 
Adam,
Using your own logic about wanting "any future reader to not doubt the purity of your pinks", which is a hard tale to swallow for a few, the motivation that is, wouldn't the exact same logic apply to wanting to set the matter of your incorporation straight once it is done? Otherwise it remains quite the open issue, and the readers of the future (I'd like to say all 2 of them, but there won't even be 2) will never know by this thread. The issue of the Incorporation was raised some 8 months ago, but you did not drop it then from your name, and I saw it in use in other sites for some time. In earlier posts in this thread, while a few individuals were not going to endorse your Ankaramies then, more than a few of us did. Do you need unanimity? You got some decent "thumbs-up" from recognizable entities on the bloodlines.

Adam, everyone likes showing off our animals from time to time, even us "old geezers". This particular forum tries to not be that place, but rather focuses on the business character of those in the industry. Work on that, and your animals will only compliment a positive reputation, once earned.
 
Nice looking animal indeed. Is he the only one that looks like that or do you have pics of the siblings too? Would be nice to see a group shot of them together looking like a huge bottle of Pepto-Bismol.

Ivan
 
MANTIS said:
Now I am not sure if somebody specifically said that they are not pure, but it was obviously inferred.
-Adam Weglarz
Click to expand...
MANTIS said:
Just wanted some other opinions. Do they look pure to the rest of you guys?
-Adam Weglarz
Click to expand...
The reason it was confronted was that back in July of '05 when you were actively selling them with a large pricetag of $550 per head, they were nowhere near verifiable, but were being claimed and sold as pure. It's now almost a year later and you're looking for verification on their purity.
MANTIS said:
Now its months later, i did wait to make sure their pure, and now you guys don't want to hear about it.
-Adam Weglarz
Click to expand...

You didn't wait to see if they were pure. You say that as if they're now up for sale because you know they're pure. Congrats Adam. They're pure.
 
Another case of "Foot in Mouth Desease"????

Well, I did see those pic before taking off to Costa Rica and was going to comment on them telling you congradulations Adam when I got back but after taking a minute tonight, after a few beers of course, and reading all this, I think I am going to hold off on the pat on the back. First, you need to go re-read my intial post very carefully and when you quote it and quote it in context. What I said was I would find it hard to believe those animal are pure if nobody in the Cham World could vouch for you and the animals you bought, ie. the person that sold them to you. So, in the future when you reference what I said, put the whole piece in there because nobody vouched anything about selling you any Anakramies. Ok, second, Jim is right, when you essentially get caught in a huge lie on the forms and everyone calls you out on it, common sense dictates that you try not to ressurect those type of threads as essentially while you have vindicated your stock as being pure you are still promoting the fact that you are a liar and that is FAAAAAAAR worse than having pure bred animals. And lastly, when you have animals that are supposed to be in the 8+ month range that look like they are maybe a sickly 3 1/2 to 4 months old AT THE BEST, probably not a good idea to boast too hard on that either. I mean, come on man, for a while I saw you posting in the forums like you were coming up with all this great husbandry knowledge on your own, through hard work and persistance, passing it out like you're some person that has hatched more than one clutch without the help of your brother but in truth you'd regurgitate the pearls of wisdom guys like Tyler or your idol Jim were nice enough to bestow upon you and without giving proper credit for god's sake. Bad move man. You might want to boast with animals that might make it a year plus or animals that actually might make it to breeding size AND produce viable offspring. Right now, looks like you managed to get lucky to me and while I was primed to tell you good job after looking at those pics again and of course seeing you shoot your mouth off I am not going to be that nice. You're doing a piss poor job on your husbandry and it shows in your animals. Get your act together because it really doesn't matter if you incorporate or not - you're business won't survive if you can't produce healthy offspring. Yeah, try not to respond to that....

Matt Jillson
 
And lastly, when you have animals that are supposed to be in the 8+ month range that look like they are maybe a sickly 3 1/2 to 4 months old AT THE BEST, probably not a good idea to boast too hard on that either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Which pics are you talking about? None of the pics I could find looked like sickly animals. The ones of the 6 month old looked good to me.
 
I don't really post on here much because of the time but I rather read the threads and lurk in the shadows and watch what is happening with the Chameleon Community today.

I think the pics that Matt is referring to might be some of the other pics that are located at Ankinc's photo hosting site. http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/Mantis8944/

Some of the "pinks" there look very underweight and unhealthy. While this one he posted here seems to look nice the others just don't appear to be what I would call good healthy animals.

I love the pics that show his "state of the art breeding facility"
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/Mantis8944/?action=view&current=e68a8866.jpg
To me a TRUE state of the art breeding facility looks like. the pics of Chamco's facility. It seems to me that someone came along, bought some animals, built some cages, and now wants to be a BIG breeder in Chameleons. It takes allot more than that to become a well respected breeder in any reptile arena and specially in the Chameleon Community. Now these are of course my opinions and there will probably be some that will disagree with me but I have been in this business/hobby for quite sometime and I have seen many come and many go. I worked very hard to establish myself in the community(when I was still active in the community) and can't stand to see others think it is going to just happen overnight.
 
Where do I start....

Matt, I don't know what you were trying to get across to me anymore in the beginning posts, but i do know that they really offended me, i.e. basically calling me a rat. And in my opinion, you weren't going to tell me "good job" or give me the "pat on the back". But thats just my opinion. They are small for their age, and I have no idea why. I feed them a well-rounded diet, they have the proper lighting, and all the other aspects of husbandry are met as well.

I put the pic up to prove they are pure, not to talk about my business. But let me address a few issues that you mentioned. First of all, it is just me. My brother has been too busy with college. Second of all, I don't claim to be some big business. Although I do claim to know my husbandry pretty well. I did not just "come along, build some cages and buy some animals". I have been keeping chameleons 6 years this july.

There are probably so many things I want to talk about on this post but forgot. However I think I addressed everything.

Also, when people on other forums are asking questions about husbandry and I answer them, there is nothing wrong with that. That is what the forum is for. I don't see too many of the big breeders addressing their questions, so sometime I help them out. Whats wrong with that?


In my opinion, some of you guys just wanted to bash me. Seems like you guys do that to a few other breeders too who sometimes post on the BOI. Now, when I prove you wrong on some aspects, like them being pure, I don't hear you guys saying anything. Nope, instead you find other things to bash me on. I wasn't going to post on here again, but Matt raised some points. I will definetly not be posting on here again though. You guys can bash all you want. Start all the fights you want. If you want to contact me, email me.

Have a good day guys.
-Adam Weglarz.
 
Hey Adam,
Will take one more stab at this thread, but also suggest that you let it fade into the electronic twilight zone soon enough.

No doubt more than one post in this thread got your fur up, but if you want to play here, you'll have to get used to it. This is not a place where you can easily limit the focus of what others say about you, and to attempt to do so is more than an exercise in futility, it is often an imitation for a little more provocation.

You are young, and I think that every poster here figured it out early on. While it sometimes gets more than a few of us to use some kid gloves on you, it also creates a certain expectation of "exageration" shall we say, and we all know this from our own youth. The wounds to your credibility were self-inflicted here, and it would be mindful of you to not diminish that lesson. Where you say you have "years of experience", others might point out that the belief is that you have only ever hatched out one clutch of panther eggs. They were Ankaramies, and then all of a sudden you were "Ankaramy Inc.", which created a credibility (and legal) problem. I could go on about some of the other claims made surrounding that hatch that demonstrated inexperience, and some stabs at natural history that were entertaining, but for the wrong reasons. While the intent of some posts, here and elsewhere, is to be a bit cynical to see how you respond, I would hope that you would also realize that this is not some of the other forums where a free-pass can be assumed.

I would enjoy being able to say that your intent here was not to be a braggart, but then that would be to ignore those wounds I am talking about that came to light earlier. Chameleon husbandry is built on volumes of anecdotal information from those with experience. Rob pointed out a few of the contradictions in your experience that are not to be taken lightly. Whether here, or in another forum, people are going to give credence to those with the greater experience. You have tried to invent some more than once. To more than a few of us, that is difficult to look beyond, even with your youth. FYI, every time I learn something that I think is definitive about chameleons, I learn in the process that there are two more concerns that I don't have an answer for.

Your exuberance and efforts are clear in your pictures. The experience will come in time, and will be hard earned, and a bit pricey. It will also be easier dismissed if you don't rein in and better focus some of that exuberance and direct it back on getting results with chameleons. Build that foundation. You have time.
 
Well Adam, I know where you can start. You can begin by looking at your husbandry. If you can't figure out what is going wrong although you think you are making all the right moves in raising your animals and they still turn out the way they do - smaller than an index finger on a 16-17 year old person after 8+ months of "optimal" care - then something isn't right, and you aren't capable at this point of fixing it. That doesn't make you a bad guy, lying about your experience does. Bottom line is you tried to ressurect all this again to make yourself into something you aren't, a capable breeder. Not to say that won't happen with more time and better experience but if you want to call down the Thunder, expect some lightening. Unfortunatly for you and those pics of unhealthy animals, you've created a pretty nice metal pole for that electricity to focus on and guess what chief, you did ALL of this to yourself. I would have absolutely told you "nice work" had you not made an ass out of yourself but unfortunately you developed a bad case of the "Foot in mouth desease" and created all of this for yourself. And yes, I will call you out on it if you act like some of the other examples you mentioned of breeders I have called out in the past for lying, doing shady deals, just plain mis-represent their animals or, my favorite, just acting like something they are not. I could care less if my most hated "enemy" has success in breeding Pardalis, hats off to them. There are plenty of people who I think are shady that have had success and good for them. All I care about is the propagation of the speices because I enjoy they hell out of them and I know once people really see how cool these guys are they will agree. One thing I don't enjoy are the scalpers and thieves in this business and unfortunately it seems in the Reptile trade there are plenty of those characters floating around. Where you went wrong was you A) Shot off your mouth and was caught in a fairly serious lie if you want to build credability and B) tried to tote around animals that have a very, very slim chance of producing viable offspring themselves to try and vindicate yourself as some competant breeder. Don't you see where you went wrong in all this?? Oh well, maybe not, but hopefully one thing you learned was that if you're going to go around bragging about your animals, make sure you did a good job in raising them....

Eric, the pics I am talking about I saw on Kingsnake. I saw them Friday, not sure if they are still up or not. The animals pictured essentially needed a super hot - for Chameleons - shower that created a lot of steam for those animals to get the color they did. Typcially with Chameleons, Panthers in particular, when they are super hot and stressed is when you'll see them display a lot of their nice color but it will be washed out a bit, faded if you will. Well, if you look at all of those pics to a "T" might be an understatement.

Matt Jillson
 
I haven't kept pardalis in a long time.

The one in question seemed to have a nice, bright pink color, but was
small - on an index finger, correct? Is it an adult, or a runty one?

I'm unfamiliar with pardalis growth rates, as the only one we had was a
WC male ambanja, over a decade ago. I DO know with calyptratus
that the optimal growth rate is not the "normal" growth rate. Breeders
feed their babies a lot so they grow fast. A slower growth rate does
not lead to a smaller adult, but it reduces the chances of MBD. I grow
my veileds slowly, and I make a point to not over feed them. I deal
with people criticizing my animals because they're "small" for their age
when young. As a result, I'm always weary when someone is critical of
a chameleon's weight and condition. all too often, I see people
criticizing a person's husbandry, simply because their chameleon is
healthy and normal, but not disgustingly fat and swollen (which too
many people believe is "healthy"!).

That's why I wanted ot see the pics myself - not that I dont' trust your
opinions - hehe.

I get a sense from you guys (Rob in particular) that you're a little quick
to pick on a young person in a new business. I am with you in some
respects. I tried to breed veiled back when they were expensive, and I
had success. It was a hobby, and I had fun, and made some money
when I was 14 or 15. Taking it to the next level is a different story. I
never wanted to NOT have a hobby - when it gets serious, it's no
longer as fun as it used to be. When you're young, you haven't' learned
some things that you need to - not yet anyway.

Often, it's a lack of accountability, or foresight. Really, suggesting that
it's incorporated is a bad thing to do - I know it sounds nice - it really
does - but in business, SERIOUS business, you're really asking for
trouble doing something like that. I'm sure you chose the name not
trying to misrepresent yourself, but things like that are important. A
similar (though more serious) problem is going on in Florida, by another
young chameleon person. Export licenses from Tanzania have not been
given out, yet one person is getting shipments in with 2005 export
licenses... they are taking a huge risk, but lack the foresight to
understand the seriousness of the situations.

In almost all of the cases when an upstart tries to start a chameleon
business, it goes bad - be they a kid, or an adult. You either go big,
and invest all your time, or keep it small, and make it more of a
profitable hobby. Everyone tries to go too big, too quickly, and most
fail. Often, it ends up with the breeder owing a lot of money,
misrepresenting aimals age or parentage, or just plain screwing people
over and not sending the aniamls!

Adam, you gotta see where these people are coming from - they are
not going to just listen to what you say, oogle at pretty pictures, and
accept you as an equal - most of these guys have seen it before.
They've been screwed over and slandered by people in the community
that tried to make a lot of money really quick. They've got good reason
to be critical - prove them wrong!
you've got a much nicer setup than many people - so it's a good start.
( Rob, comparing ANY breeding facility to the Chameleon Company's
is just not fair!)

I have been keeping chameleons for a long time. Only now, after over
a decade, do I really feel I can register a small buisness/LLC, or
something. I'm keeping it small and fun, but I will want to grow it in the
future if I can. I'd like to help out with the CRG and establish some
rarer african species in captivity - that's too ambitious for now though. (
I have a daughter now, so chameleons are NOT my priority...
anymore.) In tim eI'll grow it up a bit, but I'm starting REALLY slow.
 
Eric, you make many good points.

But I want to take some exception with one bit of your post, as I feel it is misleading:
I'm unfamiliar with pardalis growth rates, as the only one we had was a WC male ambanja, over a decade ago. I DO know with calyptratus
that the optimal growth rate is not the "normal" growth rate. Breeders
feed their babies a lot so they grow fast. A slower growth rate does
not lead to a smaller adult, but it reduces the chances of MBD. I grow
my veileds slowly, and I make a point to not over feed them. I deal
with people criticizing my animals because they're "small" for their age
when young. As a result, I'm always weary when someone is critical of
a chameleon's weight and condition. all too often, I see people
criticizing a person's husbandry, simply because their chameleon is
healthy and normal, but not disgustingly fat and swollen (which too
many people believe is "healthy"!).
Click to expand...

MBD in chameleons is not a product of rapid growth rates. It may be caused by many things, including lack of UVB, D3, improper nutritional balance, lack of calcium, genetics, unwanted chemicals in their food (especially poultry growth hormones) etc. I know of no one in the business who looks at a "disgustingly fat and swollen" chameleon and characterizes it as healthy or normal, although I am sure there will always be a few.

Also, no breeders that I know of "feed their babies a lot" to grow them fast. That is not the choice being made, which implies that we might want to consider some kind of "diet", meaning reducing consumption. I cringe a bit at this statement "I DO know with calyptratus that the optimal growth rate is not the "normal" growth rate." I guess it depends on what you define as "normal", but I believe that "optimal" should always be the goal, and would define optimal as getting as close to "normal" Mother Nature as possible, eliminating drought, predation, etc. For example, chameleons grow optimally when they have access to free-ranging bugs, vs. cup feeding. This means that the chameleon is exercising the same choice as in the wild. This is mentioned in many websites, and based on significant quantities of observation. My experience is that chameleons do not over-eat. That's not to say you won't get a "heffer" every now and then (sit in front of a Wal-Mart sometime). They eat when they are hungry. FYI, I also would apply the same logic to watering, in that you can't "over-water" a chameleon.

The optimal conditions for raising a chameleon yield much faster growth rates than most folks who raise their chameleons indoors are used to. Assuming a perfect diet, perfect temperatures, and good hydration, a chameleon raised in natural sunlight will consistently grow faster than one raised indoors. This is the biggest reason for variation in growth rates between the more northern "indoor" breeders and us southern folks.

Adam and I have traded multiple notes on the side. He knows that he was in a bit of a hurry to establish experience and the respect that comes with it. I don't think that any of the criticism was due to some motivation by the "more experienced" to pick on the "younger" guys because of some age differential. There was misrepresentation at all levels of how Adam portrayed himself, and the criticism was earned. The choices made to become a "target" were his. He's got the energy and desire, and in time, he will be able to make claims without pretending.
 
My experience is that chameleons do not over-eat. That's not to say
you won't get a "heffer" every now and then (sit in front of a Wal-Mart
sometime). They eat when they are hungry.
>>>>>>>>>>

I disagree - I see overfed chameleons all the time. Calyptratus with
loads of meat hanging out the back of their casque, females laying 70+
eggs, fatty liver disease, etc. Many people feed their adult veileds way
too much - 20 insects a day or so. No wonder people can't get them
to live more than 3 years - they're dying of liver failure and gout.

I should have been clearer when mentioning growth rates. I really
believe many breeders are feeding their baby veileds excessivly, and
they are growing so fast, it increases the likelyhood of them getting
MBD. Faster growth rates require more calcium and D3.

I said this was the "normal" growth rate, because it seems to be the
common practice - "feed veileds constantly, and grow them fast enough
to mature in 6 months." In my experience, I find this to be a major
cause for the huge problem of MBD in calyptratus in animals that are
otherwise well cared for (proper UVB, D3, calcium,etc).

I truly believe the optimal growth rate is slower. They reached full adult
size anywhere from 10-15 months of age. Most veileds that I've
bought from other breeders (except the Kammers) were adult size in 6
months, despite nearly all of them having varying degrees of MBD. The
male I bought from the Kammers grew even slower than my babies - he
didnt' reach his full size until he was well over a year - 15 months.
Liddy had told me they are careful not to grow them too fast - as a
result, they have few problems with MBD.
 
Jeeze... I didnt' realzie how stupid that post looked, all the sentances beginning with "I this , and I that..."

I was gettin the feeling that Rob was trying to prevent another "Holland Incedent" from happeneing.
 
Eric, you are steering this thread far off topic.

Some folks expressed the opinion that some of Adam's animals were thin and undersized, which was on-topic. You offered some alternative "expertise". I challenged then, as I do now, your supporting statements. I have considerable experience with calyptratus as well, but the topic had been pardalis, which you were familiar with as you "had one ten years ago". If you want to put forth the opinion that breeders "overfeed" their chameleons otherwise well-balanced diets, and that this causes all the problems which you blame on "over-feeding", be my guest. I guess we can thank Mother Nature for only allowing the proper amount of bugs to walk in front of wild chameleons, lest they have the opportunity to "over-eat". MBD becomes visible with growth, slow or fast. It is caused by an imbalance somewhere. Can I suggest that with your logic, that if there were a "perfect season" in the wild where the chameleons are found, such that the insect population was twice as abundant as a normal season, that we would have a noticeable increase in the incidence of imported chameleons with MBD, gout, etc., that season? BTW, I have never pulled an import out of the bag with MBD, and I've pulled many. I would suggest to you that all of the problems that you allay to "over-feeding" are due to some other factor besides the quantity of bugs the animal chooses to eat. My experience tells me that your premise, and therefor conclusions derived from it in questioning the criticism of others towards Adam, are substantially flawed.
Back on topic, I suggested to Adam last year in private emails that some of the pictures of the animals he was posting looked under-nourished. I recommended first that he only post animals for sale, or those he felt were representative of him, that were more robust in appearance. I then discussed ways he could beef-up his chameleon diets.
I would hope that the continuance of this thread, if it must continue, would be about Adam, his posted comments and experience here and elsewhere, and claims he has made in light of what others know and see. I believe Adam has acknowledged he ran a bit far without the ball. An "over-feeding" thread can be started in the backwaters of this site.
 
I am all for people trying to gain the knowledge and give their shot at starting their own breeding venture or small business. What I am totally against is someone that just regurgitates everyone else's information as their own, mis-represents themselves or their animals, and thinks that in a short time they have become something they are not. Hell I have worked for over 30 years with reptiles, and 20 of those years is with Chameleons and roughly 15 of that being with C.Pardalis and I still do not consider myself an expert. I learn new things all the time. Even when I was full fledge in my reptile business dealing with chameleons, I was still learning new things and was happy to learn it from others. Some of us have seen way too many "kids" start with a few Chameleons, have a little success, and think that means they are experts and should start their own business. Becoming a successful breeder alone takes many years much less a successful business. I wish Adam the best of luck in the future with his breeding efforts as long as he takes it with the right frame of mind.
 
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