any one ever delt with 88reps (canyonreptiles)

[Sasheena]

It's human nature... When someone is beating up on someone else, frequently people will side with the one being beat upon, whether or not they really deserved the beating. I would recommend backing off from Adam... not because he wins, but because attacks on him stimulate sympathy.... letting him sink himself will only bring contempt. It IS possible to change, but NOT without help, support, and positive examples. While I hold serious reservations about the change he has sustained, I am willing to give him all the rope he needs to hang himself, or to hang up potted plants... whatever. Continuing the "fight" will only blind people to what Adam has done to HIMSELF... he's quite capable of showing his true colors. And if he finds some others within the herp community who wear the same colors that he does... well we'll see them for what they are too.

Merry Christmas everyone. Let's let this rest and enjoy the beautiful day, regardless of religious affiliations.

 

[oldherper]

To be honest, I think this may be a bit of a hornet's nest in our state...I even received an email calling me a "jew lover" (technically, this is in fact correct, my wife is part jewish, and we get along alright...hmmm).
It seems there are more racists out here than I had previously thought...rather unfortunate.
Many of the aha members have expressed their opinion to me as being :"leave him alone". Personally, I think that when you let people act like that, and be accepted, you end up with a bad situation. (dachau, anyone?)
This "human" Adam should be sent packing...but it appears that out here, in the wild west, he has found a niche.
greg in the red state

Greg,
Be advised that if any of these emails containing things like calling you a "Jew lover", etc. are in any way threatening, they may be prosecutable under the State or Federal Hate Crimes statutes (depending upon if they were made across state lines or not). It is illegal to make terroristic threats by any media.

 

[DThomas]

To be honest, I think this may be a bit of a hornet's nest in our state...I even received an email calling me a "jew lover"....

Please post the emails you have been receiving. I would like to know who they are, especially if they maybe members if the AHA.

 

[cthulhu77]

Dennis, I will certainly keep track of phone calls and emails, and will post them as they show up...the "jew" one was deleted by an understandably upset female in this house, but I shall hold any others that pop up...I actually found it more amusing than irritating, since it seems like such a silly argument...but upon reflection, perhaps I should take it a bit more seriously.
The advice to back off of Adam is well thought, but I don't know if ignoring the problem is going to make it go away...I have ceased posting anything negative on the aha forum about adam, but there are some others who are at least wary of him...still makes we wonder about homo sapiens...can we really still be this childish?
greg

p.s. time to go open some presents, and forget the unpleasantness...Hope all of you have a great Christmas! ( I was hoping for a tree monitor, but none of my packages are making any noise...ah well )

 

[Micki]

hmmmm.

These are the questions I want answers to.
1. If Adam got rid of his snakes, where did they go?
2. Does anyone actually believe him that he did get rid of them?
3. Does anyone live around him to "drop in" on him and see if they are still there.
4. Did anyone call the DNR, fish and wildlife, police, rambo, etc... on him?
5. Why are the AHA backing him when they have read this thread?

These are what is boggling my mind right now. Anyone feel free to answer them.

 

[Sasheena]

1. If Adam got rid of his snakes, where did they go?

I, myself, am very interested in this question.

2. Does anyone actually believe him that he did get rid of them?

Whether or not I believe it, the only thing that matters is if it really happened. So I hope he has "legally" gotten rid of them somehow. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and invite him to explain himself.

3. Does anyone live around him to "drop in" on him and see if they are still there.

Well pretty much a large proportion of the members of the AHA live "near him" but whether or not they have done, will do, is a different thought. With Dennis Thomas being in law enforcement, I don't doubt that there are things in the works that are not being discussed.

4. Did anyone call the DNR, fish and wildlife, police, rambo, etc... on him?

I believe this has happened. However I don't believe that huge front-line action would be to the benefit of herpers, especially here in Arizona... everytime BAD publicity comes to light about reptiles, more of the rights of reptile keepers are destroyed. THAT is why everyone is so up in arms about Adam's behaviour, because what he does can hurt ME and others.

5. Why are the AHA backing him when they have read this thread?

This is a simplistic view of what has happened on the AHA website... Some members are quite infused with the Christmas Spirit, and would like to believe the best of Adam. For the most part, there are only two or three vocal people on the now-closed thread, and it would be wrong to assume that other members of the AHA and participants in the website have the same feelings as the vocal minority. Please don't confuse one or two individuals holiday spirit of forgiveness and optimism with the "backing by the AHA" that you state. It simply is NOT true.

 

[C. willardi]

Posting on the AHA forum

I have made posts on the corallus thread. I am not backing up what he has done or his racist beliefs. I believe that EVERYONE can change no matter what they have done. I am a born again Christian and I am just trying to make a difference. Whether or not anyone can agree or relate with this I don't know. Everyone deserves to be forgiven and given more oppurtunities, no matter how severe their actions are. Oh and Sasheena it's not the Christmas spirit I am always like this

 

[Sasheena]

I'm glad you're always like that. I'm a High School Teacher... so by defintion I believe people can change. Sometimes I pray it happens, considering what I see day-to-day. I would definately like to believe that Adam can change, and while I remain doubtful, I would love to be proven wrong. I've seen a lot of my kids change both in positive and heartrendingly in negative directions. I can only be who I am and hope that through example I can help my students to see the right pathways and elect to take them.

I hope you don't think I was being critical of you for your generous nature, I applaud the spirit, whether or not it is based on the season or on your normal nature. It is important to be positive in this oh-so-negative world!

 

[Micki]

Ok, wait a second here. You both think he changed? It was just two days ago he was a proud skin head, cop hater, kept venomous animals, didn't need any permits, thought he was outside the general rules. But your right, he changed in 48 hours for the better. Come on, you can't be serious. Aaron your a born again Christian, I understand that you believe people change, but it doesn't happen over night. Sasheena is a high school teacher, I know you have had times where you hoped someone would change, and some times they do, but most of the time they dont. Or if they do it takes time for them to do it.

I don't believe it. I think he is a menace to the herp world. And quite frankly when something happens because of him, you can expect a "I TOLD YOU SO" from me.

 

[cthulhu77]

I would have to agree with M. ... I don't think this is a change of heart at all, and such a change in a dedicated skinhead is about as likely as...well, can't really say that without getting in trouble...!

While I applaud your "forgiveness", I also don't understand your stance...he has never answered the questions put to him, Adam just says "jeez, I'm sorry" a lot and never ANSWERS anything !

This whole denial of any wrongdoing is ridiculous. Should he be hung out to dry? Possibly not...but to just sweep it all under a rug and say "lets move on" doesn't solve the main issue:
He proclaimed a willingness to use violence to further his agenda.
He knowingly broke the Federal Laws, and State Laws, and didn't care if it endangered the public. (what happens to a cobra in a broken box?)
Adam obviously is a threat to everyone around him, or dealing with him.

 

[cthulhu77]

"and he seemed like such a nice boy"
Where have I heard that one before? S. is right though...he is going to bring down the herpetoculture in arizona a few notches...may be he is happy about that?

 

[C. willardi]

I don't believe he has changed yet, it takes time, it is a process. I know he has the ability to change, it is whether he wants to put forth the effort. I see where you are coming from, right now I am not sure whether he is trying to change or just build up his rep. for his business, who knows. I know what you mean by him claiming ignorance. He is still at fault and needs to admit that he is and not just deny it or make excuses. As of now I think I can say he has not changed.

 

[cthulhu77]

this bit of a thread on aha was deleted...it is in regards to the threatening of one member of fauna, and Adam's reply:

"I would aplolgize to webslave in heart beat but in now way will there be an
apology to dennis."

He then went into a long diatribe about how is going to sue Dennis, and make sure he loses his job. Unfortunately, those items have been deleted by the aha moderator.

greg

 

[C. willardi]

The one thing I don't understand is why he won't admit he screwed up big time. He thinks he can threaten other people for just telling him he did something wrong. He must relise this before he takes even any minor steps. And Adam I know you are reading these, so I don't see where Dennis did anything wrong. Pm me so I can see what you are talking about.

 

[C. willardi]

That didn't come out right last time I wanted to say Dennis didn't do anything wrong.

 

[cthulhu77]

For a bit of the view from the other side:
http://www.crusader.net/texts/wpfaq.html

after all, we should look at all sides of an issue, no matter how distasteful.

 

[C. willardi]

I agree that bieng racist is horrable and that everyone should be treated equal. On the AHA forum I posted too soon on the comments of the way he was bieng racist compared to polish jokes. I hadn't finished reading this whole thread and ran my mouth too soon. I regret not reading it before I posted and I do agree that it is sick for someone to think themselves better of someone because of skin color. Everyone is equal no matter what race they are and everyone should be treated equal. In spite of all this I still believe he has the ability to change if he really wants to. It is up to him now.

 

[Lucille]

-25-2004, 03:40 PM #213
cthulhu77
Registered User


Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: arizona
Age: 40
Posts: 21
Name : greg
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Warning Level: 0 this bit of a thread on aha was deleted...it is in regards to the threatening of one member of fauna, and Adam's reply:

"I would aplolgize to webslave in heart beat but in now way will there be an
apology to dennis."

He then went into a long diatribe about how is going to sue Dennis, and make sure he loses his job. Unfortunately, those items have been deleted by the aha moderator.

greg


If this is what was said, then it is I who owe an apology to Dennis. If this person will not own up to the ugly things he said, then he is not, in fact, going to change.



I am still OK with the fact that I asked for a chance for this guy, it being Christmas and me being soft, and a woman, and a nurse and all that.

We gave him a chance, and by not doing right by Dennis he hung himself as far as I am concerned; he had a chance and blew it.

Sorry Dennis. You were right and I was wrong.

Lucille Hollander

 

[Sasheena]

You are reading about 1000 times more into what I have said than what is meant. Just because I would LIKE to believe he can change and HAS changed doesn't mean that I DO believe this. I do not find his behaviour excusable, I don't find ignorance an excuse worthy of the time it takes to type the word. HOWEVER, nothing can change things already said, done, etc. The only possibility is a change for the future. I would LIKE to see him change... wouldn't everyone? Wouldn't his legitamate change be worthy of notice and applause? Wouldn't it make the herp world a better world? WILL IT HAPPEN... only Adam really knows. I don't think it's worth the serious anger and boiling stomach acid that some seem to have put into it. He will prove himself, and it won't happen today, it won't happen this year... it WILL happen over the course of the next year, if he really has changed. I won't believe he has changed until he realizes where Dennis is coming from and gives him a heartfelt apology. Until/unless he can lose his "All cops are pigs" attitude, and takes responsibility for ALL of his actions, I will not believe in his change of attitude. If you believe he cannot change because he is a skin-head, then you are judging him with the same sort of paintbrush with which he judges those of different colors/ethnic backgrounds.

Ok, wait a second here. You both think he changed? It was just two days ago he was a proud skin head, cop hater, kept venomous animals, didn't need any permits, thought he was outside the general rules. But your right, he changed in 48 hours for the better. Come on, you can't be serious. Aaron your a born again Christian, I understand that you believe people change, but it doesn't happen over night. Sasheena is a high school teacher, I know you have had times where you hoped someone would change, and some times they do, but most of the time they dont. Or if they do it takes time for them to do it.

I don't believe it. I think he is a menace to the herp world. And quite frankly when something happens because of him, you can expect a "I TOLD YOU SO" from me.

 

[DAND]

I not a Registered Shipper with the airline as my business remains for non-venomous reptiles.

I was actually going to end this discussion by placing a photo of the Delta receipt, however, my digital camera is in non-working condition.

OOPS For the last post. Sorry.