Anyone purchased from this breeder?

[Slither]

I just received a jungle carpet python I ordered from Harford Reptile Breeding Center (www.pythons.com) and was wondering if anyone else had any experience with them? The package arrived very timely but was not labeled at all stating it was perishable or live animal. The heat pad which was included was on the outside of shipping paper which was wrapped around the snake bag which had the snake in a small plastic container inside wrapped around a piece of paper towel. The heat from the heat pad would never get to the snake. Also when I finally got the snake to unravel from the piece of paper towel and into his new home I notice there is a long piece of shed that did not come off of his tail.

My concern is this is a very young jungle carpet python (they said 4-5 months but it looks younger to me. Alot smaller than I had expected) and after the horrible experience of being shipped as it was now I am going to have to stress it out even more by soaking it to remove the shed. For now I am leaving the shed for a day and will try to soak it tomorrow night.

Just wondering if anyone else has had these or similar experiences from this breeder?

 

[Dianne Johnson]

I've not ordered from Harford, though I've heard only good things about them from people I know. However, I did want to make a couple of comments, if you don't mind. First, in regards to labeling, unfortunately I've heard from a number of people that their shipments came without any sort of label. The only person that I've actually ordered live animals from shipped to me with a label that the package was perishable, but not mention of live cargo. As much as it personally bothers me, it doesn't seem to be that unusual. As for the method of packing the heat pack, that also is within the norm. If the box was properly insulated, the heat should travel through the entire box, regardless of the placement of the pack. If the pack is put directly next to the reptile, there is a chance of overheating the animal and causing problems that way.

I personally have a coastal carpet python who's probably around 16 inches in length, if that. She's considerably smaller than I expected her to be (hatched this past summer) and I've had her since August. She pounds down two large fuzzies per week and is growing, but not as much as I was led to expect. Curled up, she doesn't look impressive at all - easily fitting into the palm of my hand. It could very well be that your JCP is five months old, just small like my coastal. As a tip for the bad shed, you might try putting yours in a temporary setup of a rubbermaid style tub with damp towels (not wet) and a water bowl. Most of the time the snake will work the shed off on it's own overnight and it isn't quite as stressful as soaking. Just a thought. Best of luck.

Dianne

 

[Slither]

Thank you for the great reply. This was my first purchase of a live animal online. Your information about the common practice of shipping definitely helps. I definitely do agree with you and it bothers me as well that they don't label these packages. The guy who handed the box to me had no clue what was in it and even kind of shook it when I asked which one is this (because im expecting 2 packages today, the other being dead frozen rats). Thanks again for the reply.

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

Some of the best breeders around.

Bill and Allan Zulich are top notch and would in no way misrepresent an animal. Many of the "blue" lines of chondropythons have started with the original blue animal of the Zulichs'. They are among some of the pioneers in breeding GTP's in captivity. Their reputation is sound and you will be hard pressed to find anyone to say otherwise.

What method of shipping did they use? (Delta, UPS, Airborne) That would explain the lack of labeling as some dont allow snakes.

This time of year it is important to put many layers between the animal and the outside temps. Sounds to me by the description you gave that is exactly what they did and the animal arrived safe and sound.

Perhaps you should take your concerns to them and see what they say about them. You might be pleasantly suprised.

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Just a quick note about Carpet Pythons: They are relatively slow-growing snakes in my experience. I've raised a few babies and they might pound the pinkies and fuzzies, but it takes them seemingly FOREVER to be big enough for something larger. So it is very likely that your snake is a perfectly normal size for its age.

Also, the packaging you described sounds overall pretty standard. The only thing I would have done different is put the snke in a deli cup OR a bag, not a cup in a bag, but it really shouldn't matter. The heat pack should NEVER be in direct contact with the animal or its container, but instead placed so that the heat can spread around the box. So if the heat pack was placed as you say, that sounds about normal, too. I would have labeled the box, but many shippers don't.

As far as Harford, I've never done any business with them personally, but you are the first person I know of to say anything negative. They have been around for years. But hey, can't have everything go perfect ALL the time I guess.

Hope your snake does okay and that you can get that dry shed removed without a problem.

 

[ReptileKIngdom]

Harford Breeding Center

Harford Reptile Breeding center has been producing, breeding and shipping reptiles forever. Alan and Billy Zulich are quality people who supply quality animals. I am sure if you have any problem with the animal, Al will stand behind it. It is very tough this time of year to ship animals. Too many heat packs can over heat and kill the animal, not enough can freeze them, so if the snake was not frozen or cooked you are looking good. I am sure the shed skin will come right off with a soak. Hopefully everything works out and your snake grows up fine. If you have any problem, i would recomend calling Al. Like i said before, i am sure he will stand behind it.

 

[Slither]

Once again thank you for the awesome replies. I did not mean to be posting something "negative" necessarily about them, but was more looking for the information you guys are providing me (i.e. normal shipping practices, etc.) As I said I have never purchased live animals through the mail before and the practice just did not seem "right" to me. I am glad to hear that this is normal (although I would do it differently) and yes the snake DID arrive in what seems to be good health other than it was cold (overly to the touch) and of course shaken up. It was shipped Airborne Express btw.

I really appreciate the input!

 

[Clay Davenport]

I wanted to mention that is is very common for a snake to shed during shipment if it is nearing time for it. I have received many snakes with a skin in the bag with them having shed on the way. Often it was a bad shed as well as a result of poor humidity in the shipping box.
I just say this to mean that it's highly likely that this is the case here and not that they shipped the animal with a stuck shed.

Also on the topic of the snake arriving cold to the touch, that really can't be helped this time of year.
For instance, I received a ball python today, and upon taking it out of the bag I took it's temperature with a Raytek temp gun out of curiosity. The surface temperature of it's body was 56°F.
The snake was packed very well, with two heat packs, both of which were still quite warm.
The forecast for my area changed the evening after he was shipped. At the time of shipping it was predicted that the temperature would drop tomorrow, but late yesterday evening the forecast was shifted up a day, and the temps here were 10° cooler than predicted when we shipped.
That's how things go in the winter. There are inherent risks with shipping at this time of year but with proper packaging, as in both of our cases, the snakes make it just fine.

 

[ajc]

Bill,

I followed this here from the Bob Clark forums where you originally posted. It sounds like you've never had a baby Carpet Python before, and by the way you were concerned about the stuck shed, I'm guessing you're probably fairly new to the hobby.

Before mentioning any breeders name, you probably should have asked more questions about baby Carpet Pythons (especially while you were over at the Bob Clark forums) to determine if the one that you just got was actually unhealthy. Doing that, rather than automatically naming the breeder and saying "I know what I think of the condition the snake was in," would have quickly gotten you the answers you needed. The way you put it, I got the impression that the snake was sick or in bad condition, when in fact, it was just smaller than you thought, and having a bad shed during shipping, which is not all that unusual with baby snakes that tend to shed every 6 weeks or so.

About the size of baby Carpets (and all snakes), it just depends how much you feed them. Hatchlings start off at 12-15" in length and the girth of a pencil, if even that thick. If they're fed a lot, they will be 2.5 feet within 5 months, but most breeders don't feed offspring as often as you or I would feed the animals in our collections. That doesn't mean that the snake isn't healthy. In fact, some herpers believe that slower growth is better.

By the way, I'm not trying at all to grill you, just trying to be helpful, so that you get quicker answers next time.

 

[WebSlave]

Just for the record, many moons ago when I was first thinking about shipping my animals, I went to the person whom I felt was an expert in such things and asked him his opinion on the best methods to use and how to go about it. This person was Al Zulich.

I would not hesitate in the least to order something from Al or Billie and consider them to be top notch in this business.

Rich Z.

 

[Slither]

As I said, I was not bashing or putting them down in any way. I was just concerned about the method it was shipped since I have never received one before now. I believe they are great people and a great asset to the herp community and I appreciate all your honest responses and replies.


As for asking more questions about the snake and its kind and my experience. I am newer to the hobby although I have owned 5 other snakes before this year (many years ago). I currently own 3 and will be expanding my collection soon I'm sure because of my love for snakes. The question I asked about shedding is because there was not any other skin in the bag or in the actual plastic container the snake arrived in. My only conclusion would be it was shipped that way. Seeing this bad shed after my feelings of receiving my first live animal in the mail and not knowing the information about shipping them as I do now made me a little nervous about who I bought from.

Therefore I came to the forums to ask and being new to the forums did not realize that was an inappropriate question for that forum. I was directed here where I posted and received many helpful and honest replies which I greatly appreciate.

Once again, I reitterate (spelling probably wrong on that word), I am NOT putting down the breeder nor his practices in any way. I am very happy my snake arrived healthy, alive, and very beautiful (nowhere did I say she arrived unhealthy).

I did a months worth of research on Jungle Carpet Pythons throughout the net and books before I ever ordered one. From everything I read they were fast growers, not slow, which from your replies I have learned is innacurate information. Therefore I assumed my little girl would arrive a lot larger than she was.

Please don't mistake my questions for ignorance. I have always loved snakes, have owned them in the past, and am a responsible keeper who does everything in my power to give them the very best environment I possibly can.

As for me saying, "I know what I think of the condition the snake was in." I said that because I did not want to say whether it was in bad or good shape because there were still questions unanswered for me which I wanted answered before I went bashing the breeder. Which once again, is why I posted in the first place to get those answers. By saying that statement I am saying I know what I think but I WANT to know what YOU think so I can evaluate the situation and come to a conclusion of whether I am correct in my thinking or incorrect. I was incorrect btw because I did not know this was normal procedure for shipping. Thank you all for the replies and helpful information which made me feel much better about my purchase.