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  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

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    Posted 08/15/2025
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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Anyone see this ad on KS????

Originally posted by Hognose_311 woah..... truthfuly...this has changed alot of things that i think..but i did go get a book about legal procedures, and venomoid surgery, etc....
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What book is this? I am only aware of a few publications regarding venomoid surgery, and they are veterinary papers or articles rather than books. I'd like to know what book this is so I can find a copy myself.


i just want everyone to calm down :) and give me some advice if that is what you people would rather me do.....sorry....
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Okay, we're all calm now. It would be much appreciated if you could answer some of our questions, like whether the vet you were talking about really existed or not. If this vet does exist, they really need to know the same things that we've explained to you in this thread. We'd like a chance to talk directly to this veterinarian.

It sounds like you're doing the right thing, and that's great. The next step is to actually show that you are doing the right thing, so we can believe your words and have confidence in you. Putting us in touch with your relative the vet would be a good start.
 
Come on get real!!!!

Come on Tanith....Get real!!!! Do you really think the kid is going to rat his relative out? If you want to hunt him down hire a P.I. If you ask the kid to maybe have a talk about ethics with his relative, that's one thing but really? The kid just fessed up to making some huge mistakes and you won't leave him alone. It sounds noble and all but you can't fix everything that's wrong with this world. I think we all helped this kid realize his wrong doings and for that hopefully he won't turn out like his relative. GIVE THE KID A BREAK!!!! He will learn!!!! If he hasn't already!!!

BThacker
 
Re: Come on get real!!!!

Bthacker said:
Come on Tanith....Get real!!!! Do you really think the kid is going to rat his relative out? If you want to hunt him down hire a P.I. If you ask the kid to maybe have a talk about ethics with his relative, that's one thing but really? The kid just fessed up to making some huge mistakes and you won't leave him alone. It sounds noble and all but you can't fix everything that's wrong with this world. I think we all helped this kid realize his wrong doings and for that hopefully he won't turn out like his relative. GIVE THE KID A BREAK!!!! He will learn!!!! If he hasn't already!!!

BThacker
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Are you forgetting that this is the home of the Board of Inquiry?

I don't honestly know what the situation is here. I would like to believe that the kid is telling the truth, but there have been some conflicting stories told here. It's not unreasonable to ask for some clarification.

If there really is a licensed veterinarian doing venomoid surgery, they can't get into legal trouble for that. If the person doing the operations is not a veterinarian, then they definitely can. So which is it?
 
Tanith. You really don't expect him to give you the information if its being done illegally do you lol?

My god that would be like "Kevin the burger flipping king Smith" admitting to it.

Yes, this is the home of the BOI but this forum is not the BOI. I see the numerous conflicting stories he has told as have the rest of the board viewers. I am still not even sure if he really has given up all his snakes as he said. That is some evidence I would be more concerned with. At this point I even wonder if he ever really had them to begin with. He continues to use the word Herpetologist as a back up word or impress factor word.I am curious who to this person is as there are not to many with that degree floating around. But I doubt he will provide any of us with information on whom is conducting the procedure.

I think its best to write this off and hope we have educated him and that he truly has learned a valuable lesson.

Though I must admit I would love to know the answers myself.
Also I want to know what Book he has read this information from.
 
Do you really think he's going to rat his relative out? Leave the KID alone. Hire Ace Ventura and all the problems will be solved with Venomoids! EDUCATE. I think we have done that here.
 
this book

I'm with you, Tanith. Which book might this be, michael? If you would be kind enough to tell me the title and author, then i can pick up a copy for myself... Or, might you be fibbing (again!)?

I also am curious about this vet. Who is it, michael? Which vet has seriously breached his sworn code of ethics? Or, was that too a lie?
 
It kind of goes like this. I would really, honestly like to believe the kid and have trust and confidence in him. That would be great. Then we can all give him a helping hand, offer advice and resources, etc. But I really don't know who I'm talking to yet. I'd like to find out.

I'm no longer actively looking to get anyone in trouble. I'd just like to know that he's telling the truth and doing the right thing. Part of doing the right thing is helping to stop animal abuse. So yeah, if the operations are being done illegally by someone who is not a veterinarian, it needs to get reported.

If the operations are being done by a veterinarian, that's not illegal, but there are liability issues that the vet needs to be asked to think about. It's possible that this vet doesn't know about the capacity for regeneration and regrowth. I can put him in touch with a respected and well published veterinary researcher from ARAV who can verify how much risk he is taking on the liability end by doing the surgeries.
 
Tanith...I'm with you on your last post. Maybe he can spread the word to his relative "vet". Otherwise I really think you are beating a dead horse. Can you tell me what actions are being taken to make surgery illegal? And why isn't illegal?

Thanks-

BThacker
 
It is illegal if it is done by a person that is NOT a licensed vet...... It is against the law in every state to practice vetinary medicine and perform operations on animals if you are NOT a licensed vetinarian...... The greater majority of licensed vets will not perform this operation and most other elective surgeries...... Plus it is illegal to commit acts of animal cruelty....... It is illegal and cruel for an unlicensed person (or any person) to operate on an animal without a super clean environment and without pain managment......
IT IS ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unfortunatly the law is not being upheld...... Hopefully this will change in the near future......
 
May sound like a stupid question but why does KS allow posting of these ads? I have seen numerous venomoid ads. I'm kind of shocked after getting back into the herp world after being gone for 10 years. Alot has changed with the internet and all but it seems all I've seen on these sites are crooks and butchers. It's amazing these guys have the cajones to post!

BThacker
 
There may in fact be a few vets actually still performing this alteration surgery. However the fast majority of the surgery can be traced to about 5 diffrent persons who ARE NOT VETS by any means. I still do not understand why websites allow these alterations to be sold without asking for proof of LEGAL surgery. My best guess is most do not care or the ones who charge for the right to use thier add space simply see the money as a factor and thus choose to overlook the facts and laws.

Morality to me and a higher since of obeying the law will not allow me to ever have them aloud on my site. Some say how can we as site owners verify it. Well its simple If JOE A wants to sell one on your site require them to in the same add place the name of the vet and date of surgery in the add. The law requires proper medical documentation of surgery. It is a simple way for site owners and the purchasing public to see that these animals were operated on by a licensed trained proffesional.

Any person who is not willing to provide that documentaion most likely is selling a garage hackjob. Simple requirements based on Law can help prevent many of these animals from being sold and even hacked. If you refuse to allow the criminals of the industry to have freedom they would be forced very quickly out of the industry. Potentially this will save both human and snake life.
 
The decision on whether or not to allow ads isn't a matter of ethics, but rather one of civil law.

Should the owner/operator of a classified site choose to exclude the sale of a legal item (whether we like it or not, the actual sale of venomoids is generally legal), this leaves the door wide open to a successful civil action.

Likewise, requiring that vet info be posted in the ad would also constitute a discriminatory business practice. It puts us on the slippery slope of requiring that FL sellers verify their Class III, KY buyers verify their import permit, and so on and so forth.

To effectively stem the sale of venomoids, we need to get the matter before our respective state legislatures. The main obstacle there is that reptiles aren't warm and fuzzy, so enacting such legislation is a low priority for them.

As an aside...
I got your PM, Scott. I'll be shooting you an email later today, but I do want to sincerely thank you before I say or do anything else.
 
Likewise, requiring that vet info be posted in the ad would also constitute a discriminatory business practice. It puts us on the slippery slope of requiring that FL sellers verify their Class III, KY buyers verify their import permit, and so on and so forth.
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Actually the way I read the Law in FL it is a requirement of the sale that proof be shown of the class 3 to sell in the state. As a fact many citations have been handed out for not providing such proof upon request. I may have mistaken how you ment that to come out. I just wanted to add the fact as I have read it and actually witrnessed citations issued.



Should the owner/operator of a classified site choose to exclude the sale of a legal item (whether we like it or not, the actual sale of venomoids is generally legal), this leaves the door wide open to a successful civil action.
Click to expand...

Ken so your saying a owner of a site can be held liable if he refuses to allow an item to be sold he may have beleive to have been { for lack of better words} created illegally. Simply requirring that a person to add who the vet was would not IMO constitute discrimination. In fact I beleive it follows the spirit of the law if not the letter of the law.

I am not the best on bussiness law. so any clarification would be great. I just can not imagine any court finding in favore of someone that they were discriminated upon by a provider in requiring them to give the proper medical documentation or refferanc to the legal surgery. I might be wrong
 
I 'm not going to give you the name or lacation of the vet, but i still dont see why no one pays attention to the fact that I did not perform the surgery i just wtached and held some tools, i dont want this argument to start up again...but im at my friends house right now and i don't have the book, but its not actually an entire book on venomoid legal procedures, it's a book called "venomous snakes". im not sure who the author is, but i rented it at the Chesterfield, VA local Library.
 
Michael,

If your "vet" is legit, he has nothing to worry about. As Tanith said, no one is looking to get you or your vet in trouble...unless they aren't a vet. Any vet would be more than happy to talk to a concerned group of animal lovers and keepers about a potential medical and legal issue. If he isn't doing anything wrong, he has nothing to worry about. Your refusal to give us a name, or a means to contact this person cast a large amount of doubt on everything else you have told us. Again, as long as this person is legit, neither you or they have anything to worry about. So why are you insistent on hiding his identity?
 
Ill give you his name but does it matter if i have his permission or not?
 
Frankly you'd be doing this vet a favor by letting us explain to him about the legal liability situation. He may not be entirely aware of all the ramifications of doing venomoid surgery.

I'd as soon have your vet talk directly to my vet; they can speak on a professional level, and my vet can share the research we have gathered and the papers from veterinary conference proceedings that are relevant to the subject.
 
Legally you don't need permission to put anybody's name online if you are telling other people about them.

The vet might be mad if you put his name online and a bunch of people started yelling at him and acting like lunatics, but that's really not the plan here. I'd just like to make sure he has the opportunity to speak to another veterinarian who has done some research into this field.
 
the vet

michael, please stop stalling. What is his name? We just want to talk to him about venomoid surgeries; if, in fact heb exists, that is.
 
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