Aptor / Raptor Debate

[groovygeckos]

Stephanie, I understood what you are saying 100%, but you seemed to have missed the point that noone ever said Het APTOR means Het for Tangerine, or every other trait involved. APTOR, is only a catchy name for "Patternless Albino".

RAPTOR, is fancy name for the red eyed version. Thats how I think of it anyways, Ill tell you, I dont expect Ron to change a thing. My own common sense (and I hope others) tells me if it is an Albino "Het APTOR" it is Het Patternless, not Het Albino and Patternless and ORange LOL If someone believes in Het Tangs, Im sorry but I have a big brown het orange bridge I can sell them too. LOL J/K

Im not saying Ron is correct in his terminology. I am however saying it just might be, could be, probably is, for simplification reasons?

Would you like to type out Jungle Albino Het Patternless Het for Ruby Eyes all day long? In short it is Jungle het APTOR het RAPTOR, and hey it still includes the somewhat catchy name, which also includes his LAST NAME. Im sure it has something to do with marketing, y`know.

 

[g&mgeckos]

Im sure it has something to do with marketing, y`know.

I think it has alot to do with just that.


Steph I think you have made a very good point. It would be interesting to see what he had to say about it all.


Pat I have seem many threads on Ron that were......Lets just say not very favorable for him and he has never responsed to any that I am aware of. I think the man has done some great work with this species but some of the things he says and writes is questionable at best.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I have no issues with RT, this thread was not meant to bash RT or the APTOR/RAPTOR mutation. However, I would appreciate his input.

The point is, be honest with what your producing and selling. How can you say het RAPTOR when the genes that make the RAPTOR are unproven (outside the Tremper Albino and possibly the ECLIPSE) and some are line bred?

that noone ever said Het APTOR means Het for Tangerine, or every other trait involved. APTOR, is only a catchy name for "Patternless Albino".

But those that use het APTOR/RAPTOR are implying that is is het for every mutation involved. That is the whole point.

My own common sense (and I hope others) tells me if it is an Albino "Het APTOR" it is Het Patternless, not Het Albino and Patternless and ORange

What of someone new to the Leopard Gecko hobby? They would feel slighted that their "het RAPTOR" really isn't het for the mutations that are presented in the acronyum.

Im not saying Ron is correct in his terminology.

Then why not make it right? Their is no reason everyone has to follow what he does.

Would you like to type out Jungle Albino Het Patternless Het for Ruby Eyes all day long? In short it is Jungle het APTOR het RAPTOR, and hey it still includes the somewhat catchy name, which also includes his LAST NAME.

No, I would expect Jungle Tremper Albino het Patternless, ECLIPSE (IF each mutation were PROVEN recessive). It's really not that difficult.

 

[Ian S.]

Well here is something I have been trying to put together for years now. Can someone kindly explain what in the heck this means LMAO!!! or how it works for that matter?? please reffer to the link posted. I'd love to hear what people have to say and or some incite regaurding the purple eyed albino and all that color mumbo jumbo. Can we really apply the color spectrum chart into genetics?? In some cases I coould suppose it's possible, but eye color effecting body color???? lol
http://www.leopardgecko.com/pictorial.html

 

[groovygeckos]

Well

I wish I had a copy of one of my "Het APTOR" ads. They would clearly state something like, " Carrothead/Tail Tangerine Jungle Giant Albino Het APTOR Possible het RAPTOR". I would go on to explain, "Het for Patternless, possible het for Eclipse/RAPTOR", and I will clearly state what the animal is "het" for, possibly "het" for, and even which traits are obviously expressed. Nowhere will I make misleading "het for Tremper Orange" statements and everything is out in the open. So no by saying Het APTOR I (personally)am not implying anything.

I say "het" because this is all that is known since they were sold as "hets". Until someone or myself can claim otherwise, most (including myself) will say 'Het Patternless' , 'Het RAPTOR' 'APTOR-Patternless gene carrier' or something to that effect. Ill even explain how patterning traits(to the customer) are polygenic, but act recessive, the very same reason Ron tells me he calls them recessive. Definitely trying my best to educate people, that is how I am making it better.

Trust me Ide like to be able to guarantee genetics on the APTOR/RAPTOR line but Im working on proving it out just like everyone else. It has not been done yet, so until there is something to base it on... I have some 'ideas'.

I prefer saying het APTOR-Patternless or het Red Eyes myself. Because I dont agree that an APTOR Het Eclipse (correct term), should be called a APTOR Het RAPTOR either. If it is "Patternless" why is it Het RAPTOR, having the "P" included? LOL I know it doesnt make sense, but thats not the point of the name to make sense. IMO the point of the name is to be catchy, sell HIS name, and to be more keyboard-friendly.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Taken from one of RT's pages...

Since red + blue makes purple - this means it is possible to make an albino with a blue body!!!

It's kinda funny his reasoning here, considering what produces color in most animals are melanin (browns/blacks), erythrin (reds/oranges) and xanthin (yellows). The purple that is seen in lavender cornsnakes is not really a red+blue purple, but shades of melanin and erythrin that appear purple.

Ill even explain how patterning traits(to the customer) are polygenic, but act recessive, the very same reason Ron tells me he calls them recessive.

Just because it acts recessive doesn't mean it is recessive. Which is why I think it's wrong.

 

[groovygeckos]

Yea I never got that red + blue thing in school either. LOL

I think its wrong if it is for the purpose of misleading. Maybe not, if it is for the purpose of not explaining to hundreds of people what the difference is between the two (polygenic and recessive) when you can get the same results. Me fence rider.

Sometimes it is hard enough just explaining 'simple' things.

Jerry is on the radio right now... I gotta run Peace!

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Um, you did understand what I posted, right?

It's kinda funny his reasoning here, considering what produces color in most animals are melanin (browns/blacks), erythrin (reds/oranges) and xanthin (yellows). The purple that is seen in lavender cornsnakes is not really a red+blue purple, but shades of melanin and erythrin that appear purple.

See any word for BLUE in there?

I think its wrong if it is for the purpose of misleading. Maybe not, if it is for the purpose of not explaining to hundreds of people what the difference is between the two (polygenic and recessive) when you can get the same results.

It's misleading whether it's deliberate or not.

POLYGENIC = relating to a characteristic controlled by the interaction of genes at more than one locus.

(added in case an individual is reading this and does not know what that means)

 

[groovygeckos]

Um, yep. This

Yea I never got that red + blue thing in school either. LOL

was a joke anyways, not directed at you.