Info Arizona Exotics --- Payson, Az.

[Brandonmarsh29]

... He should have been out ?

Sorry. Should NOT hhave been out in the store

 

[Lucille]

The lizard is not the pet shops responsibility.

Once the pet shop accepted the lizard, it was in fact their responsibility. There were apparently employees lounging around the register as the picture of this critter was taken; it would have been the work of a few minutes to clean the enclosure and provide food and water.
A picture tells a thousand words, and that picture shows how this shop showed their care.

timid

If you are describing those who post in the BOI as timid, I think you are incorrect. (I've never heard Tom described that way and do not think that of him, quite the opposite).
Publicity here will have a far more effective reach than notifying those who had already showed by their actions (allegedly lounging around the cash register while the Collared had no food or water) that they did not feel the critter's welfare came first.

 

[Lucille]

We at Arizona Exotics had this thread brought to our attention a couple of days ago. Let me start this off with some facts. First, there was a Collared Lizard in very poor shape. While we are truly sorry anyone had to see the animal in that condition, being in a small town like Payson, we're the only real pet store around. People bring animals in to us in less than desirable conditions almost daily. We recently converted our bathroom into our quarantine room. Unfortunately, that didn't give us a lot of space. We went in after hours upon hearing of this thread and looked through everything. There were two shed skins and a few poops that got overlooked and for this, we apologize as well. Due to personal reasons, we have been under-staffed for the past two weeks. Tom, we truly feel that in the event you see ANYTHING that you consider is putting an animal's well-being in jeopardy, we'd really appreciate it brought to our attention. You stated that there were employee(s) around the cash register, so someone must have been free to speak with you. (And even if we had been busy at the moment, we would gladly have made time.) Had you taken the time to do so, I'm sure you would have quickly realized we are all very nice, genuine, helpful people. Again, we apologize for our errors, and hope some of you will come take a look at the thriving animals that are actually for sale.

I would like to revisit this quote. First of all, we have only this person's say-so that this critter was a drop off and not a regular animal out to be sold.(And whatever its status, it deserved food and water).
Second of all, everyone understands that sometimes businesses are understaffed, but when they are, it is inappropriate for the employees that are there to just hang out at the register as alleged.

Third, and to me a matter of no small concern, is that a bathroom used by guests and employees should not be used as a quarantine room, that would seem to be a health violation.

 

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

You wreak of newness... Please stick around noob!

Post count doesn't mean much. Participation ≠ Intelligence

So you are pretty much saying to just let the lil guy suffer eh that from a moral standpoint its no biggie... Awesome bro! Like it keeps being said if all someone is going for is money live animals aren't for them! Anyone with any decency in them puts the animals well being first I have in the past and will again turn HUNDREDS of dollars down once I saw what my lil guys were headed for. Point is the took him in they need to get him taken care of. We saw the pic no water dirty cage etc... He should have been out in the store ANY EXTRA STRESS is going to make it so much worse and for whatever reason quarantine was full or whatever still do whatever you can to get him in a safe place... Out in the store was very irresponsible. Hows the lizard doing today?

No, I said it wasn't their responsibility. If they were in it for the money I assume that they would have A. Had the woman pay for them to take it. B. Not have taken it. You passed "HUNDREDS" of dollars to make sure your animals went to good homes? Cool! I've spent HUNDREDS of dollars on vet bills for sick animals. The animal couldn't get in that condition from being in the store for less than a week. From what I see, had the animal started in the store's care, it would have been in perfect health. Unfortunately, it already looked terminally ill so I'll assume that it died.

Back to the my main concern, the store should not be blacklisted because of something someone else did. Had they not taken it in it in, and it remained in the woman's care, it would have died, and the store would be looked at positively.

A picture tells a thousand words, and that picture shows how this shop showed their care.

If that one picture shows a thousands words about their care, the one-hundred plus pictures on their page tell over one-hundred thousand words about their care.

If you are describing those who post in the BOI as timid, I think you are incorrect. (I've never heard Tom described that way and do not think that of him, quite the opposite).

I don't know him personally; judging by his acquaintances I assume he's a pretty cool guy. But, I would describe his actions as timid.

Publicity here will have a far more effective reach

There's too many variables to determine that. Regardless while he was there he could have did something.

If a kid runs in a house wielding scissors, he is not forever banned from every having scissors again. He is informed/warned that he shouldn't do that, and if he disregards that, then he deserves to be reprimanded.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Smh rofl. He said based on their Facebook page. From all the way out in Jersey... This same guy probably picks up the National Enquirer and believes everything he reads at his local grocery store! I'm betting, not sure. But betting on it. Their Facebook page, what you saw there... I'm still laughing.

Do this though Jon Johnson... Lol. Inquire on all the Green Tree Pythons silently... Get pics and what not of each and associate them to the ones on the FB page and the ones advertised on Kingsnake. Report back. Also, let us know how the Collard fared please. Thank you kind fella.

 

[Brandonmarsh29]

Ok Jeremy so I'll give u that when u said it would take more than a week to get that bad BUT being out on the sales floor with a empty water dish and sitting in his own poop is not going to help him out as much as a clean enclosure with water and in a quiet setting would. IT BECAME THE SHOPS RESPONSIBILITY WHEN THEY TOOK HIM IN!

 

[Kauai]

Crazy

 

[j_dunlavy]

There is no excuse for empty water bowls!
Even in the heat of summer.
my own snakes get water checks at least twice daily.
When I was working at a local pet shop, we would do the same.
we would add water multiple times daily if we had to, and we were understaffed at times.
if water is evaporating that rapidly then put water in more often; not exactly rocket science.

 

[Lucille]

If a kid runs in a house wielding scissors, he is not forever banned from every having scissors again. He is informed/warned that he shouldn't do that, and if he disregards that, then he deserves to be reprimanded.

You seem to imply that this pet shop is being run by children, which I doubt. Adults, especially those who run a business that involves caring for critters, are already expected to know that critters in their care need food and water.

To neglect critters by leaving them without water is in my opinion abuse.

 

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

There is no excuse for empty water bowls!
Even in the heat of summer.
my own snakes get water checks at least twice daily.
When I was working at a local pet shop, we would do the same.
we would add water multiple times daily if we had to, and we were understaffed at times.
if water is evaporating that rapidly then put water in more often; not exactly rocket science.

That depends on the circumstances; in these circumstances it is acceptable. Arizona is a very hot place. Tom said he went to the store after he ate lunch. That would mean that he went around 12:30-3:00 in the afternoon. Those happen to be the hottest hours in a day. So of course the water in a water dish is going to evaporate.
Also, I was informed that there was water in the animal's bowl earlier. I doubt it was fresh(probably from the previous day) but still, there was water in the bowl earlier. So it wasn't as though it had never had water while in their care. Just that when this picture was taken, there was no water. You and your local pet shop change your animals' water multiple times a day? Cool! That isn't required and most people don't do that, rather once a day or when they see the water level getting low. Water bowls are going to dry out... It happens... A lot... But all of you have to do, is fill it up when they saw that it was empty. I'm sure if Tom brought up the fact that the bowl was empty, someone would have put water in there. It doesn't hurt to ask, and it doesn't hurt to put water in there.They haven't deprived the animal of water for however long it has been in their care. If they didn't want to give it water, why would their be a water bowl in there?

You seem to imply that this pet shop is being run by children

Wow. I did not think that anyone could somehow misconstrue an analogy like that... Children obviously cannot own/run a pet shop.

Adults, especially those who run a business that involves caring for critters, are already expected to know that critters in their care need food and water.

To neglect critters by leaving them without water is in my opinion abuse.

Then complain to the woman they received the animal from. The store employees are well aware that animals require food and water. They would have a hard time selling things if they couldn't keep the animals alive.

Jim, your post just made this worse for your friends I'm thinkin'.

Do this though Jon Johnson... Lol.

Who are you referring to? Me, Jeremy? James?

 

[Lucille]

Also, I was informed that there was water in the animal's bowl earlier.

I don't think I believe that. Who 'informed' you?
That poor dehydrated critter deserved to have water, not excuses.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Just come on out an admit it was your fault xxmonitorlizardxx. Drama llama! And that you're the real owner, lmao!

 

[j_dunlavy]

That depends on the circumstances; in these circumstances it is acceptable. Arizona is a very hot place. Tom said he went to the store after he ate lunch. That would mean that he went around 12:30-3:00 in the afternoon. Those happen to be the hottest hours in a day. So of course the water in a water dish is going to evaporate.

Yes, I know how hot it gets in AZ. I know water evaporates in the heat. Are you saying that when it is 103 degrees outside it is 103 degrees in the store? I doubt it. most buildings have something called air conditioning.
Again it is never acceptable to allow an animal's water dish to run dry.

Also, I was informed that there was water in the animal's bowl earlier.

informed? by who? the facebook page? this statement makes no sense coming from someone who is in NJ

You and your local pet shop change your animals' water multiple times a day? Cool! That isn't required and most people don't do that, rather once a day or when they see the water level getting low. Water bowls are going to dry out... It happens... A lot... But all of you have to do, is fill it up when they saw that it was empty.

I actually care about my animals.
I check my snake's water when I wake up, topping off as required then wash the bowls in the afternoon after work. I check them last thing before I go to bed too.
At the pet shop we used to do things much the same way; probably because we actually cared about the well being of the animals under our care. we would check for water first thing in the morning, topping off as needed, wash the dishes during the day as we made the rounds and make sure there was water before leaving for the day as we shut the store down.
there is no reason a dish should ever run dry.
And yes, it is required that any reptile keeper should be checking their animal's water at least twice daily. I feel sorry for any animals not getting this sort of minimum care.
If you cannot provide this, do the animals a favor and get out of the hobby

If they didn't want to give it water, why would their be a water bowl in there?

just because somebody puts a water dish in a cage does not mean they are going to put water in there.

Any Pet Shop that tries to brush this sort of stuff off and blame this on that should be immediately closed. Short staffed for "personal reasons" is just another BS excuse; where I worked the owner came in every day to be sure the shop was being taken care of; even while he was undergoing treatment for cancer.
Again; any excuse for neglect is just a load of BS and is not tolerated here

 

[Lucille]

Wow. I did not think that anyone could somehow misconstrue an analogy like that... Children obviously cannot own/run a pet shop.

Obviously not, so your analogy is invalid, because adults are charged with the responsibility of giving care to the critters they own, even if it is the bare elements of subsistence, such as food and water.
Your analogy seems to want to create a 'one abuse rule' where the owners are free to deprive critters until they are caught and told that they really should provide the basics of life. And if they ask, they can have another chance. Sort of like Michael Vick.
You seem to expect that everyone will say 'no big deal' and just gloss over this incident and go on.
Not.

 

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

Yes, I know how hot it gets in AZ. I know water evaporates in the heat. Are you saying that when it is 103 degrees outside it is 103 degrees in the store? I doubt it. most buildings have something called air conditioning.
Again it is never acceptable to allow an animal's water dish to run dry.

No, but when you are replicating a desert environment , that is supposed to mimic the 103+ degree temperature outside, it is going to be hot inside of the enclosure. I'm fairly confident Collard Lizards do not appreciate air conditioning(although if the temperatures exceeded those found in the wild, maybe...).

informed? by who? the facebook page? this statement makes no sense coming from someone who is in NJ

Yes, actually. There is good amount of contact info found on in.

I actually care about my animals.
I check my snake's water when I wake up, topping off as required then wash the bowls in the afternoon after work. I check them last thing before I go to bed too.
At the pet shop we used to do things much the same way; probably because we actually cared about the well being of the animals under our care. we would check for water first thing in the morning, topping off as needed, wash the dishes during the day as we made the rounds and make sure there was water before leaving for the day as we shut the store down.
there is no reason a dish should ever run dry.
And yes, it is required that any reptile keeper should be checking their animal's water at least twice daily. I feel sorry for any animals not getting this sort of minimum care.
If you cannot provide this, do the animals a favor and get out of the hobby

It's great that you and your associates do that for your animals! But once again, you don't have to. In the wild, animals go days, weeks even, without water and they do fine. But that would also depend on what animal you are dealing with. A Salamander would not do well if it wasn't given a water bowl. A Collard Lizard on the other hand, would do fine. It is desert animal. They don't go to lakes and streams for water, they get most of their moisture from their prey items. I bet you would argue with Mother Nature for not making lakes abundant in deserts.

just because somebody puts a water dish in a cage does not mean they are going to put water in there.

It isn't for aesthetics. For at least one point in time, they planned on having water in there.

Any Pet Shop that tries to brush this sort of stuff off and blame this on that should be immediately closed. Short staffed for "personal reasons" is just another BS excuse; where I worked the owner came in every day to be sure the shop was being taken care of; even while he was undergoing treatment for cancer.
Again; any excuse for neglect is just a load of BS and is not tolerated here

The store took in a sick and dying animal from someone who didn't want it. Neglected to make sure the desert lizard had its, "24 hour accessible body of water that mimics its natural habitat", had water in it. And a store should be closed for that?
No, it shouldn't.

Just come on out an admit it was your fault xxmonitorlizardxx. Drama llama! And that you're the real owner, lmao!

Wow...

You seem to expect that everyone will say 'no big deal' and just gloss over this incident and go on.
Not.

Forget the analogy, it was futile.
I did not expect everyone to do that. Actually, I expected the polar opposite. This is Fauna, and I expected nothing less than an annoyingly dragged out argument.

 

[j_dunlavy]

No, but when you are replicating a desert environment , that is supposed to mimic the 103+ degree temperature outside, it is going to be hot inside of the enclosure. I'm fairly confident Collard Lizards do not appreciate air conditioning(although if the temperatures exceeded those found in the wild, maybe...).

It's great that you and your associates do that for your animals! But once again, you don't have to. In the wild, animals go days, weeks even, without water and they do fine. But that would also depend on what animal you are dealing with. A Salamander would not do well if it wasn't given a water bowl. A Collard Lizard on the other hand, would do fine. It is desert animal. They don't go to lakes and streams for water, they get most of their moisture from their prey items. I bet you would argue with Mother Nature for not making lakes abundant in deserts.


It isn't for aesthetics. For at least one point in time, they planned on having water in there.


The store took in a sick and dying animal from someone who didn't want it. Neglected to make sure the desert lizard had its, "24 hour accessible body of water that mimics its natural habitat", had water in it. And a store should be closed for that?
No, it shouldn't.

I have been working with reptiles for over 20 years. I am well versed in what it takes to care for them in private homes and what it takes to provide a decent level of care for them in a well stocked pet store environment.

I guess I have to explain that the air conditioner is meant to keep the store from getting up to 103 degrees, not to keep the desert tanks cool.

We used to keep uromastyx, etc, and their water dishes never ran dry. It wasn't even hard to keep water in their dishes.
It is just good husbandry to keep a water source even if the animal does not need it all the time.
heck, I can't remember the last time I saw my leopard torts drink, they usually walk right past the water provided after a brief glance at the water; does this mean I will deny them the opportunity?, no, absolutely not, they always have a water source.

Now when you are dealing with a sick, emaciated animal, water becomes even more critical and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool or just plain ignorant.
I have dealt with my fair share of rescues and they always did much better once they got a bath and a meal on board, with very few exceptions
If you are going to take in a neglected animal, you should not neglect it further.

planning on having water in the dish is not equal to actually providing water.
Neglect is why some stores should be cited and/or closed.
more often than not, a store that had some neglect issues at one time has neglect issues on a regular basis.
I have seen this time and time again; those stores have since been shut down by the authorities; unfortunately animals were dying in beween the citations that ultimately shut them down.

 

[Lucille]

This is Fauna, and I expected nothing less than an annoyingly dragged out argument.

Classic. Attack the site and the people when people see through your baloney

 

[j_dunlavy]

Yes, actually. There is good amount of contact info found on in.

by the way, I saw nothing on their facebook page about the dish ever having water in it. In fact it mentions nothing about this issue (as far as I could tell).

They do have a yelp link that was helpful

more often than not, a store that had some neglect issues at one time has neglect issues on a regular basis.

Case in point:

 

[Brandonmarsh29]

Hey guys just coming back to annoyingly drag out the argument! What is annoying to me is dragging out the lil guys pain and suffering! You can be annoyed all you want at us buddy but that water dish looked like it was not only dry but dirty not to mention the condition his enclosure was in also. It comes down to common sense if someone isn't willing to take a the time they were killing standing around the register to clean out the enclosure and provide fresh water then they don't belong around animals.... One of the very first things on any care sheet is to provide fresh clean water AT ALL TIMES

 

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

Classic. Attack the site and the people when people see through your baloney

An attack on the site? You wish!
That was my observation of the website.
Observations are not attacks. These are examples of what attacks look like: