Info Arizona Exotics --- Payson, Az.

[j_dunlavy]

There is just nothing that burns me more than than bullying and name-calling and picking on others just for your own amusement.

with you on this

 

[EdwardK]

Sabrina... It's been 3 weeks! Of course it's cleaned up! And if you think that Chuckie looks good, I guess you haven't seen one in the wild!

Look at the belly on that thing. See how deflated that is. Here's what it should look like. Thanks for posting that one!

Just scanning through the thread as I've missed parts of the drama over the last few days.

Tom, as a kid I spent a number of years wandering the desert outside of Las Vegas and around Lake Mead and I have to say that their picture of a chuckwalla matches my memories of many of the wild ones I saw and caught. I wouldn't expect that to be out of "norm" for the ones I've seen and caught. I'm not sure that is quite the coup you feel it is....

In my experience having worked in pet stores in the past for long periods of time, the store would have been better off simply saying okay we dealt with the problem.

One of the concerns I would have about this issue is that it is possible that the store will no longer take in rescues or other animals. If (not the IF), that is what they do at least part of the time, then this thread could have made that into too much of a liability. I know when I worked in stores we had animals abandoned on a routine basis and we did even pay for vet care for them... Some of them were where the public could see them (one notable animal was a red foot tortoise that had been severely starved and had a esophagostomy tube placed into it's neck for feeding. The public thought the idea that were getting the animals treatment a big plus.. This animals had also had it's shell Armor Alled). I know for a fact that every store I worked in would have refused to take in these animals after a thread like this and animals that were dumped and sick would have either been euthanized or taken to the local shelter.

While it is true that animals should have access to water regardless if they are going to drink from the bowl or not unless it is directly detrimental to their health as a simple preventative method for avoiding conflict. The problem in this case is that the dry water bowl is causing the implication that the lizard got into that condition because of the care. This is a very hard argument to refute as there isn't anything like a timeline proving that the animal didn't get that way because of the lack of water or care in the store.

Some comments

Ed

 

[lizbot]

I don't understand the part about the owner making excuses. Yes, he did seem a bit hot-headed in one post, but I honestly can not blame the guy for getting very frustrated after reading every false claim and the support of the claims from so many who have never even been inside his store.
He has explained what he meant by saying about the fact that the lizard had no water was not detrimental. I'm sure I don't need to repeat it, you can go back through Shannon's posts if you don't remember it. But he has stated that even though they had hydrated and fed the lizard, he still should have had water (I don't remember if he apologized for it, but seems to me like he did...?). Where are the excuses he's supposedly making?

 

[DanielleD]

I'm posting from my phone and would like to apologize ahead of time for any typos/mistakes. That being said, I'm not sure if many of you forgot about my initial post on behalf of the shop or if you missed it completely. Either way, here it is again.

We at Arizona Exotics had this thread brought to our attention a couple of days ago. Let me start this off with some facts. First, there was a Collared Lizard in very poor shape. While we are truly sorry anyone had to see animal in that condition, being in a small town like Payson, we're the only real pet store around. People bring animals in to us in less than desirable conditions almost daily. We recently converted our bathroom into our quarantine room. Unfortunately, that didn't give us a lot of space. We went in after hours upon hearing of this thread and looked through everything. There were two shed skins and a few poops that got overlooked and for this, we apologize as well. Due to personal reasons, we have been under-staffed for the past two weeks. Tom, we truly feel that in the event you see ANYTHING that you consider is putting an animal's well-being in jeopardy, we'd really appreciate it brought to our attention. You stated that there were employee(s) around the cash register, so someone must have been free to speak with you. (And even if we had been busy at the moment, we would gladly have made time.) Had you taken the time to do so, I'm sure you would have quickly realized we are all very nice, genuine, helpful people. Again, we apologize for our errors, and hope some of you will come take a look at the thriving animals that are actually for sale.

We attempted to clear this situation up politely and reasonably, and were then met with more exaggerations and incorrect information on Tom's end (along with many of those siding with him despite having little evidence to back up his claims and no evidence of their own). Then Lucille took it a step farther and inadvertently suggested this situation get posted on our local newspaper's website. (As seen on pg.7) I would also like to point out where Tom claimed he "walked in like a regional manager would to a chain store". I may not be a regional manager, but I would imagine I would talk to the employees about any issues I had before bringing it up on the internet, though maybe that's just me. I understand that many of you aren't pleased with the way this thread has gone, but it should be known that we did try to apologize and clarify our side of the story in hopes the thread would die down. Shannon became defensive when his livelihood was being threatened. Im sure in this situation, most of us would do the same. It was made very clear that this thread is mainly here for drama factor and little else. We have no interest in prolonging this any longer. Thank you.

 

[hhmoore]

404 posts (405, now) about a dead collared lizard and some otherwise unsubstantiated claims....and there are 21 people viewing this thread, several of whom are probably poised for their next responses.

Tom - unless you have a personal vendetta, you've probably made whatever point you set out to make. You haven't added anything new - just continued to fuel the fire & stir the pot. Let it go unless you return to the shop and find something worthy of continuing this....and be sure to take more than one picture if that is the case.
Any other participants should take 2 deep breaths and push themselves away from the keyboard and consider whether they really have anything worth adding to this mess.
The horse is dead - there is no sport in beating it further.

 

[j_dunlavy]

I don't understand the part about the owner making excuses. Yes, he did seem a bit hot-headed in one post, but I honestly can not blame the guy for getting very frustrated after reading every false claim and the support of the claims from so many who have never even been inside his store.
He has explained what he meant by saying about the fact that the lizard had no water was not detrimental. I'm sure I don't need to repeat it, you can go back through Shannon's posts if you don't remember it. But he has stated that even though they had hydrated and fed the lizard, he still should have had water (I don't remember if he apologized for it, but seems to me like he did...?). Where are the excuses he's supposedly making?

His excuses are highlighted in red below.
Shannon did not apologize, just called Tom names.

We attempted to clear this situation up politely and reasonably, and were then met with more exaggerations and incorrect information on Tom's end (along with many of those siding with him despite having little evidence to back up his claims and no evidence of their own). Then Lucille took it a step farther and inadvertently suggested this situation get posted on our local newspaper's website. (As seen on pg.7) I would also like to point out where Tom claimed he "walked in like a regional manager would to a chain store". I may not be a regional manager, but I would imagine I would talk to the employees about any issues I had before bringing it up on the internet, though maybe that's just me. I understand that many of you aren't pleased with the way this thread has gone, but it should be known that we did try to apologize and clarify our side of the story in hopes the thread would die down. Shannon became defensive when his livelihood was being threatened. Im sure in this situation, most of us would do the same. It was made very clear that this thread is mainly here for drama factor and little else. We have no interest in prolonging this any longer. Thank you.

Danielle; You were the first person in this thread to offer an apology, it is a shame that Shannon could not do the same.
How people handle bad situations, attacks, etc, often times tells a lot about the person. Had Shannon responded the way you did, perhaps this thread would not have become the monster that it is now.


Just to review:

Okay Tom,

First off, you never had your "life threatened". I didn't threaten you at all. In fact, you were the one throwing around threats. I simply laughed at you raging like a tough guy on the phone. Funny how big you are talking tough on the internet and the phone. To bad you didn't have the guts to say anything to anyone in person that day.

So to you and those on your bandwagon. Here are the Facts;

The collard lizard in question was brought to us in the condition you saw it in. It was obvious to us that it was too far gone to save. We took it in anyway. The fact that there was no water, is not so devastating as you try to make it. This desert collard lizard rarely sees water in the wild. So, one day without is not a huge deal. You must have been in on a Saturday. I pay a full time employee to care for the animals Monday - Friday. So again, one day without water is not a big deal for these desert lizards.

Now we could've hid the poor guy in the back to avoid idiots like Tom. Hiding things is just not what we are about.

Dirty cages? Not a chance. Our displays are well maintained. Can you find sheds from time to time? Of course you can, but this is not a health concern by any means. We actually let people have the nice sheds when want. Will you finds fecal matter from time to time? Of course you will, they do poop... We clean, mist, and feed in the mornings and again at close. So, in the middle of the day there is a good chance to see a poop.

In closing; Get a life Tom.

Just to remind you of the facts:
Federal law requires all animals to have clean fresh water available at all times.
for Sick animals this becomes more critical.
Someone cleaning the tanks Mon-Fri implies that nobody does anything with them on the weekends. Even if they were kept in immaculate condition during the week, this is no excuse for ignoring their needs on the weekend.

Now, I do understand that animals do in fact get dropped off in conditions like the collard was in, however they should not ever be kept on the sales floor. If you know they are too far gone to save, immediate euthanasia should be done, otherwise no water in the dish looks even worse. The way it was presented (Quote, Shannon: It was obvious to us that it was too far gone to save. We took it in anyway. The fact that there was no water, is not so devastating as you try to make it.) makes the condition of the lizard look like the excuse he had no water.

 

[j_dunlavy]

404 posts (405, now) about a dead collared lizard and some otherwise unsubstantiated claims....and there are 21 people viewing this thread, several of whom are probably poised for their next responses.

Tom - unless you have a personal vendetta, you've probably made whatever point you set out to make. You haven't added anything new - just continued to fuel the fire & stir the pot. Let it go unless you return to the shop and find something worthy of continuing this....and be sure to take more than one picture if that is the case.
Any other participants should take 2 deep breaths and push themselves away from the keyboard and consider whether they really have anything worth adding to this mess.
The horse is dead - there is no sport in beating it further.

You posted as I was typing.
This thread needed this, Thanks Harald

 

[Snake-Queen]

I quit reading all the back and forth after page 9 or so (my viewing is set to 60 or something per page ... total of 11 pages for me).

I can say as a bearded dragon breeder & rehabber ... those pellets can be deadly to beaded dragons, most are made from pine, which is toxic to reptiles & can cause impaction leading to death.

I looked at the pictures taken and noticed algae in a lot of the bowls, that does not happen over night. The one picture that shows a cricket trying to drink, there is barely any water in that bowl.

I have NEVER seen a perfect pet store, nor do I ever expect to. There are things that this one is doing very wrong, with the types of substrate used for the bearded dragons. Don't come back with, so & so is also using it, they aren't the ones under the microscope right now. If they fed their dragons milk & cheese would you do so also? Does it make it right because someone else is using RODENT pellets for REPTILES?

The bearded dragons should be on tile in a store setting.

I'm not getting into the he said she said poppycock ... that has nothing to do with the animals.

The collard lizard should never been put out for public viewing, if quarantine was full, then it should have been placed else where or euthanized, never near healthy animals.

The tumor on the old bearded dragon could have been a result of years of improper care and/or being kept on RODENT bedding.




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[Amelanistic Orca]

Some people get it! I mean, really get it! ^^^^

Good work Melissa!

I still want to see an update on those Green Tree pythons, they sure didn't post any of those. Lol.

 

[Kauai]

Drive up there its not that far

 

[j_dunlavy]

I quit reading all the back and forth after page 9 or so (my viewing is set to 60 or something per page ... total of 11 pages for me).

I looked at the pictures taken and noticed algae in a lot of the bowls, that does not happen over night. The one picture that shows a cricket trying to drink, there is barely any water in that bowl.

I have NEVER seen a perfect pet store, nor do I ever expect to.

All true.
I will say that sometimes algae can get into the hard water deposits inside the bowl and become difficult to clean out, visually speaking, even if the dish is clean. The hardest dishes to clean algae from were the cast resin type, they had a slightly rough texture. Algae does grow rather quickly under UV light in warm temps; calcium takes time. Regular cleaning prevents algae growth and reduces the calcium buildup.
I'm not saying these dishes were clean, just adding a note on that.

At the shop I worked at, we used to soak old dishes that became calcified in vinegar to clean them up. It did take quite a while for calcium to build up so we did the vinegar soak about every other month or so. Most of the time, calcium was a problem on dishes that came in with a donated animal. Daily cleaning prevents calcium deposits for the most part, but it does eventually build up.
Algae on the other hand, wipes right off a clean glazed ceramic dish. Algae also takes about 3-5 days to grow. Daily cleaning, even cleaning every 3 days, and you will never see any algae.

No shop is ever going to be perfect, but you can tell which shops are making an effort to be top notch. This shop was not.

 

[SoCalAce]

Recent Transaction

Hi All,

I scanned this thread (granted I did not read 42 pages, or even more than 5 because I found that most of it was bickering to no point) before making a purchase from Arizona Exotic Pets, and I could not find enough evidence to stop me from going forward with the purchase.

I inquired about an ad for a pair of White Lipped Pythons they had for sale. My inquiry was promptly responded to by someone named Austin. He told me that they had not had the pair very long, and that although they refused the first feeding attempt, they had both eaten the second offering and that was the only meal they had had with them (I find admission to only having them for one meal to be respectfully honest). We worked out a price, and once I sent the funds via Paypal, Austin replied again that he had received it. We then worked out a ship date, which I had to move the day before for my own convenience. Austin was quick to reply, and accommodating throughout.

The snakes arrived well packaged and on time. They were clean and healthy looking, and I was very happy. Being that these guys can be finicky eaters, I waited until they took a meal with me before coming here to say that I had a very pleasant transaction with Austin. I would not hesitate to do business with him/them again.

 

[Celtic Constrictors]

Well, it's fortunate the snakes were new to their care, eh? Your post is certainly a testament to whoever owned them before Arizona exotics got a hold of them.

I'm sure they will thank you for the kind words and resurrecting a bad guy thread to the top of the headlines.

 

[SoCalAce]

The bottom line is people come here to decide if it's safe to do business with someone. If they do search here, they are certainly going to find this thread, and I am happy to add my experience with them as a pleasant one. It's ok with me if you want to throw in a meaningless sass post of your own Evan.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

I'm bettin' that Collard Lizard is glad you supported them... #tarded

 

[Celtic Constrictors]

Consider yourself lucky Andrew. There's more than enough documentation in this thread that supports my stance on this company. I certainly wouldn't support them if I were you. By extension, you're as guilty as they are and frankly, I won't do business with anyone who endorses animal abusers.

 

[SoCalAce]

Fair enough. Perhaps I did not read enough of this thread. A side effect of 416 posts. Nonetheless, they had what I wanted when no one else did, and no one benefits from me passing up an oppurtunity to get something I want. I can't say I have regret.

I'm certainly not going to take resposibility for their past transgressions. There is no fault in attaining animals that I want and sharing the details afterward. I haven't seen their store, and I don't know if they turned things around since their problems were brought to light.