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Arnold Messer (Arnold's Reptiles) Deadbeat and Bad Guy

S

Suncoast Herpetological

Lurking in the Shadows
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Well, it finally had to happen. This will be the first “bad guy” thread I have posted on the BOI. I guess this is not too bad after close to 20 years in the hobby but it galls me nonetheless.

On November 13th, 2006 I was contacted by Arnold Messer of Arnold’s Reptiles through an ad on Kingsnake. He had been referred over to me by a fellow breeder as someone who still had Black Pines in stock. We came to terms on a single male at a reduced price since he was also located in Florida (Starke) and shipping would be cheaper. He agreed to send out a Money Order for $100 on the following Tuesday.

On 11/14/06 he contacted me again regarding a pair of Louisiana Pines I had listed. Again, we came to terms on price and the amount of the M.O. he was to send out rose to $800. he also changed the date it would be sent out to Thursday the 18th of November.

The following relates to a phone conversation we had on either the 18th or 19th. Arnold requested I call him so we could discuss the animals. I accommodated him. He hinted several times that he wished I would take less on the Louisiana Pines and I repeatedly pointed out that at $700, they were very nicely priced. During the conversation, he mentioned that he was very interested in Applegate Albino Sandiegos and that he had picked up a male from a local breeders. At the time, I had a litter of 100% het animals I was about to wholesale and, since his existing order was a pretty nice one, I offered him 3 females at wholesale, $25 each, for a total of an additional $75. Since he had already purchased the $800 money order and the additional amount was relatively small, I told him to send it the following week. He agreed and was very appreciative that I trusted him. His $800 money order arrived on Saturday and the animals, including the Sandiegos were shipped out on Monday the 20th of November.


An here is where the problem begins.

I have been chasing this guy for the past 71 days for the remaining $75. At first, he was delayed in sending it out due to being out of town. Then, he sent it out but it never arrived. Then, he sent out a replacement check which has not arrived. The last contact with him a couple of weeks ago stated that he had discovered other checks of his had not arrived as well and he was headed to the Post Office in Starke to get to the bottom of it. That particular Email also stated that he would get back to me that day with an answer. That was on 1/15/07.

I realize that this is a small amount of money in the scheme of things but it is not really about that. I really and truly HATE having my trust abused. This weasel has lied repeatedly to me and apparently decided to ruin his reputation over $75. It makes no sense to me but it is his choice.

I have attached all of the Emails that took place after shipping below in order from oldest to most recent. The phone conversation I described is completely supported by the Emails that occurred after. I can also supply the phone record demonstrating the call and the invoice I sent him referencing the Applegates if need be. If anyone finds the pre-shipping Emails pertinent, I will be happy to post those as well. However, since the problems did not arise till afterwards, they really have nothing to do with the problem. Some of the Emails are missing headers due to the Kingsnake message system I think. If anyone has any doubts I will be happy to forward the originals. I have dated the Emails in parentheses above each individual message.


(11/20/06)

Arnold

Your new kids went out this evening and should arrive in the AM tomorrow. Someone will need to be available to sign for the package. The Fedex Tracking # is 792886776023. The Louisianas are bagged with male / female symbols on the outside of the bags. Shoot me an Email in the morning to confirm safe arrival. Give them a few days to settle in before feeding and keep the first couple of meals small. Shipping is always stressful

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(11/21/06)

Hi ,Everything looks really good . Ill drop you a check next week for 75.00 for the others . Thurday i will sent it out Thanks Again Arnoldsreptile
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 6:13 PM
Subject: On Their Way

(11/21/06)

Glad to hear they arrived safe and sound Arnold. Buzz me if you have any questions

It’s been a pleasure

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(12/05/06)

Hi Arnold

How is everyone settling in?

I just wanted to check to see if the check went out for the remaining $75. I usually only hit the P.O. Box when I know something is on the way

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(12/5/06)


Hi John just got back into town from wva Everything looks really good Feeding to day . I will sent your check out tomorrow for 75.00 Hey again Thanks for everything Remember i need a blackpine female and need a ablino northernpine male baby or sem adults let me know went check gets there Thanks again Arnoldsretile

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: On Their Way

(12/06/06)

That’ll work Arnold. Glad to hear the kids are doing well.

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(12/15/06)


Arnold

Just checking to see when that check went out. It hasn’t hit the P.O. Box yet

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(12/18/06)

Arnold

Can you please verify that the check has gone out? As of today, it still has not arrived

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(12/19/06)

Hi , John yes i sent it out myself lastweek let me know ,Ill put a stop on it and sent a new one let me know Thanks again Arnold


12/20/06)

I’ll check the P.O. Box an a day or two and let you know if it arrives

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(12/23/06)

Arnold

I checked again yesterday and it still has not arrived. Can you verify the address it went out to?

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(12/28/06)

Arnold

As of today the check has still not arrived. Can you verify the address it was sent to? It’s probably time to send out a replacement check

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(12/30/06)

Arnold

Get back to me so we can get the balance resolved

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(12/30/06)

*************
NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to [email protected].
NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
*************

Hi this is Arnold I put a stop on the check so i will sent you one out on tuesday

----------------------------------------------
Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's location window) the URL below to view the ad that this message is in response to.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=451367&cat=6


----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
This person may or may not be who they say they are.
The return address they provide may or may not be their correct address.

Sent 06:30 PM, Dec 30th, 2006 from I.P. Address 71.52.204.142

(1/1/07)

Thanks Arnold. I'll let you know when it arrives. The address is

Suncoast Herpetological
P.O. Box 20051
Bradenton, FL. 34204

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological


(1/7/07)

Arnold

Just wanted to verify that the replacement check went out on Tuesday

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com


(1/7/07)

Yes i sent it let me know at once Thanks Arnold

(1/7/07)

I’ll check the P.O. Box tomorrow

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(1/9/07)

Arnold

As of today the check has not arrived. Please verify the address you are sending it to.

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(1/12/07)

Arnold

As of today no check has arrived. I am at a loss since the original check for the bulk of the deal arrived fine. We need to get this resolved though. It might be better if we took care of the $75 balance due through either PayPal or a Credit Card payment since this has now been almost 2 months

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(1/14/07)

Arnold

This is the third Email I have sent in the last week. Hopefully you will respond to this one. It has been almost two months since you received the animals and payment for the three female het Amel Sandiegos has still not arrived. We need to get this taken care of this week. Since you have not had good luck mailing the remaining balance of $75 to the original P.O. Box, I suggest either PayPal or a credit card payment to get this taken care of.

Please respond as soon as possible

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(1/15/07)

HI i am going down to post office this morning to find out what is going on my truck payment has not got to the bank and i order a pine snake from someone and it has not got there sorry not me i will let you know today thanks arnold

(1/18/07)


Arnold

Have we got this squared away yet?

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com

(1/24/07)

Arnold

This will be my final Email to you on this subject. I think I have been more than reasonable about this situation but my patience is now at an end. It has now been over 2 months since you receibved your animals from me. Since you paid promptly on the original three animals to the tune of $800, I was willing to trust you for the additional 475 on the three we agreed on and added to the order at the last minute. I have been understanding about your “postal problems” but I have now had enough. This is not really about the money but a matter of principle. I trusted your word that the money had been sent and you have broken that word. The last Email I received from you which is below promised to contact me with a resolution that day. That was over a week ago.

At this point, I simply want a speedy resolution to this ridiculous situation. My Paypal address is [email protected]. My phone # is 941-750-0297. I will offer you three possible ways to get this done. Either PayPal me the $75 or phone me after 10:00 AM tomorrow and supply me with a credit card so we can finish this. Do NOT call me tonight as it is after midnight.. Your other alternative is to overnight a postal money order to my P.O. Box

That address as you well know is

Suncoast Herpetological
P.O. Box 20051
Bradenton, FL 34204

If you choose the third alternative I will require a tracking # tomorrow by 5:00 PM

If this is not resolved tomorrow, I will be posting this situation and all Emails on Fauna Classifieds Board of Inquiry and apparently be forced to write this off as a bad debt.

I am sorry that this situation has come to this point


John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com


(1/24/07)

The previous Email should obviously have stated that the amount now past due was $75 not $475

Thanks

John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological

http://suncoastherps.com




And that is the end of the story to date. No contact since 1/15/07. Two BS stories about lost checks blamed on the Post Office and this delightful guy has my $75.

All I can say is “Seller Beware”. Nothing is more aggravating than getting screwed when you trusted someone.


Feel free to hit me with questions. There were a lot of Emails and I may have missed some details
 
Well it does suck, especially when you gave him a deal on those three animals.

I have to agree the guy is a fool to ruin his reputation over $75.
 
Jim O said:
Well it does suck, especially when you gave him a deal on those three animals.

I have to agree the guy is a fool to ruin his reputation over $75.
Click to expand...


I hear ya Jim. It never ceases to amaze me when I see the dollar value some people put on their integrity.
 
Good point.. Seems like alot of people recently are doing shady things over small amounts of money.

Be it a small amount or not, its a darn shame to see this happening to anyone.
 
I feel your pain, I had a guy do a similar thing to me over $80 that has been outstanding on a gecko purchase since August. Such a small amount to lose your reputation over, specially here in Atlantic Canada the community is so small.

I hope you get your $75, though as you say, I wouldn't be holding my breath for it
 
Update

After being notified of this thread by a third party, Arnold contacted me by phone this afternoon. He maintains that both checks were definitely sent out and I have no proof otherwise. He agreed to contact me this evening and pay the remaining $75 balance by credit card. That transaction was just completed.


I consider this matter at an end and credit the resolution in large part to the BOI.
 
Suncoast Herpetological said:
After being notified of this thread by a third party, Arnold contacted me by phone this afternoon. He maintains that both checks were definitely sent out and I have no proof otherwise. He agreed to contact me this evening and pay the remaining $75 balance by credit card. That transaction was just completed.


I consider this matter at an end and credit the resolution in large part to the BOI.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but checks don't get lost, twice. I can see once (generously) but twice is awfully bad luck. I agree that he paid because he saw his name here as a bad guy. If not, why did he wait all this time?

Good for you John. I wish they were all that "easy".
 
John, very happy to see you got that $75.00, not much in the scope of things but its the way some of these guys try and work us over for the amounts they try to. every now and then someone comes along and blindsides us and makes us think that everyone will try this again but thankfully thats not the case!
 
I can attest to checks getting lost in the mail. I work for a law firm and a minor part of my job is sending the cases out to court in their respective counties. The first check I sent to a specific county was made out to the wrong county. So, I did the reasonable thing, and sent them out another check. A week later, they notify me that the check hasn't arrived. I stopped payment on both checks, and sent them another one. A week later, they notify me that they still haven't received a check. I ended up having to courier them a check in order to get the case processed. To my knowledge, they still haven't received any of the checks mailed USPS, and it has been over a month.

So, it can happen! Lol
 
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