Info Ashley Caspillo-SakaraGT4/Sakara *Possible Buyer Beware!*

[amercnwmn]

Ashley you mentioned you have another vet report on that boa that contradicts the IBD findings? Any chance you can get that posted?

I didn't say that, lol...

Ashley you are contradicting yourself again...

From here:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207270&page=14

our vet that we use believes that inclusions were formed due to the pneumonia that was shown in the tox report and not IBD related considering no other snakes are sick or have been sick or had any issues and the other snakes that passed due to other reasons did not show any signs of any other issues or inclusions in any brain, liver or intestine tissues...

It's already been established that testing negative for IBD does not necessarily CLEAR your collection.

My vet believes the inclusions found were due to the pneumonia and NOT IBD... And considering I have had tox done on several tissues in 3 other snakes that had actually been there BEFORE and DURING the time the BCL was in the same house that had NO inclusions, INCLUDING 2 pythons that would have shown it before a boa would, and probably would have died due to it if it was there at all in the first place tells me and my vet agrees, that the BCL died from the pneumonia, not IBD... And speaking of pythons... Why would my pythons be alive still anyway if there was IBD? Pythons die within WEEKS of being exposed... And all my pythons are still here except the 2 that died due to other issues and had tox reports done on them after their deaths that showed NO inclusions...

First of all, you claim to have tox reports on the 3 other snakes that died within the past year since you received a positive diagnosis of IBD..now you are saying you haven't had any tests done.

Secondly, I don't know where you found all this misinformation about Pythons and IBD. I've found 2ndhand accounts and speculation regarding it in forums, but that's where regurgitating information without researching a problem for oneself can lead to a WORLD of problems.

 

[RachelSS]

Courtney, thank you for that information from Dr. Jacobson about pythons succumbing faster and having more expression of symptoms.

 

[RachelSS]

er, i wish I could edit my post. DISPROVING that pythons succumb faster****

 

[amercnwmn]

Thought for a minute there I completely missed something..lol

 

[Skiploder]

the everything else, was what I told the vet what I saw... over the weekend that the vet had the snake, alive, he told me that she was acting better and normal... And no, they didn't try to treat her for anything... IBD snakes don't act better, they deteriorate no matter how fast or slow it happens

Not necessarily.

Remember, IBD often expresses itself in a series of subclinical or acute ailments, indicating a breakdown in the immune system.

I had IBD that showed up in two long term sonoran dwarf boas. The male began suffering from subclinical infections and, after liver and esophageal biopsies, was found to have IBD. The female was asymptomatic but also was put down because inclusion bodies were found in her liver biopsy.

The male was "successfully" treated for his secondary ailments time and time again until I put him down. There was no getting worse or quietly falling apart. He'd get and RI- it could be treated. He'd then have another small issue, and it was treated. If my vet had not put two and two together, I could still be wondering what the heck was going on.

Yep, no stargazing, and none of the other neurological symptoms everyone is so paranoid about.

This ongoing BS about pythons dying quickly after exposure and snakes NOT being asymptomatic carrier for years upon years is tiring. Dr. Jacobson has taken the time to answer e-mails from just about everyone I know who has contacted him.

When the foremost authority on this disease is so willing to share what he knows with the community, it's maddening when people still spew the same tired old half truths and faulty conventional wisdom from Kraplan's site and other care sheets that over simplify and mislead on this disease.

What amazes me most about IBD is that while people are buying more and more snakes, they can't spare $20 to send to Dr. Jacobson at U of F to further his research and hopefully help fund more affordable and more reliable diagnostic tests or a potential "cure."

Nope, according to the good Dr. himself, there has been little to no financial help from the reptile community and certainly not from some of the largest boid names in the industry - some of whom openly say that IBD is not as big an issue as it's made out to be.

 

[sally-dog]

You go, Craig!

Excellent post.

 

[sally-dog]

When the foremost authority on this disease is so willing to share what he knows with the community, it's maddening when people still spew the same tired old half truths and faulty conventional wisdom from Kraplan's site and other care sheets that over simplify and mislead on this disease.

This is where the majority of info on this disease gets regurgitated from. Most people do not count her site as a credible source, as it is very outdated.

 

[amercnwmn]

Exactly, and Craig that was brilliant, thank you so much for sharing your experience.

I think anyone who has lost a large collection, or has experienced this harbors some sensitivity to the subject of spreading false information that can prove devastating to collections.

It's firsthand accounts ALONG with documentation from new research that will help dispell the regurged info.
Over the years I've seen so much of this in regards to various aspects of snake keeping. Usually it's harmless, mindless drivel, and oftentimes it's actually pretty reliable information.
Other times it's detrimental to an animal's well being and possibly endangering other animals.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Not necessarily.

Remember, IBD often expresses itself in a series of subclinical or acute ailments, indicating a breakdown in the immune system.

I had IBD that showed up in two long term sonoran dwarf boas. The male began suffering from subclinical infections and, after liver and esophageal biopsies, was found to have IBD. The female was asymptomatic but also was put down because inclusion bodies were found in her liver biopsy.

The male was "successfully" treated for his secondary ailments time and time again until I put him down. There was no getting worse or quietly falling apart. He'd get and RI- it could be treated. He'd then have another small issue, and it was treated. If my vet had not put two and two together, I could still be wondering what the heck was going on.

Yep, no stargazing, and none of the other neurological symptoms everyone is so paranoid about.

This ongoing BS about pythons dying quickly after exposure and snakes NOT being asymptomatic carrier for years upon years is tiring. Dr. Jacobson has taken the time to answer e-mails from just about everyone I know who has contacted him.

When the foremost authority on this disease is so willing to share what he knows with the community, it's maddening when people still spew the same tired old half truths and faulty conventional wisdom from Kraplan's site and other care sheets that over simplify and mislead on this disease.

What amazes me most about IBD is that while people are buying more and more snakes, they can't spare $20 to send to Dr. Jacobson at U of F to further his research and hopefully help fund more affordable and more reliable diagnostic tests or a potential "cure."

Nope, according to the good Dr. himself, there has been little to no financial help from the reptile community and certainly not from some of the largest boid names in the industry - some of whom openly say that IBD is not as big an issue as it's made out to be.

It would be nice for those that had made a living out of selling reptiles to have an option built in their price stating "do you wish to donate "x" amount towards IBD research @ UFl. Of course there would have to be a way to ensure that the donated money goes in effect towards that cause.

 

[RachelSS]

It would be nice for those that had made a living out of selling reptiles to have an option built in their price stating "do you wish to donate "x" amount towards IBD research @ UFl. Of course there would have to be a way to ensure that the donated money goes in effect towards that cause.

This... is a fantastic idea.

 

[Skiploder]

It would be nice for those that had made a living out of selling reptiles to have an option built in their price stating "do you wish to donate "x" amount towards IBD research @ UFl. Of course there would have to be a way to ensure that the donated money goes in effect towards that cause.

My experience is that many of them would rather convince you that it's not an issue we should be worried about.

As Maynard says: Shut up and buy. In this case, a snake, not a new record.

I brought up my experience on another forum as it was occurring and was basically told I was scaring away potential customers and peeing in the punch bowl (not by the Mods). My animals are tended to by an amazing vet and UC Davis was also used in diagnosing and testing my animals. I spent a small fortune in testing and follow up testing. I was literally told I was full of shib and that I was over-reacting. Luckily, between my vet, the vets at UCD and Dr. J, I realized that there are alot of idiots in denial about how widespread this thing may indeed be.

I then did some research and was sickened by some of the big names who have poo poo'd IBD - sometimes even on forums or in interviews.

Dr. J's response confirmed that, by in large, the boid industry is willfully ignoring some of the scary truths about IBD. I mean, the possibility that an animal can go asymptomatic indefinitely and potentially infect other snakes is real.

If you do the research and look into the incident rates on how many seemingly health animals were found to be infected, your fingers start to go a bit numb. Then factor in that a large number of healthy animals that were donated for research as part of the supposed "healthy" group were infected with the virus.

In the end Dan, your idea is a great one - but one I'm betting not many breeders take you up on.

Dr. Jacobson's efforts should be strongly backed by the reptile community. Does anyone remember the HR2811 hearings in Florida? It was Dr. J who was the real star on behalf of the "Reptile Nation". The very fact that we are making progress on the war on IBD is mainly attributed to his thinly funded efforts.

While we are all waiting for the boid nation to start taking amore active role in helping out with IBD research (don't hold your breath or you will turn pretty blue), the rest of us idiots and chicken littles can send donate here:

Dr. Elliott Jacobson
2015 SW16th Ave
SACS
College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Florida
Gainesville, Fl 32610

(add for IBD Research to the memo line) should be made out to "The University of Florida Research Foundation".

 

[amercnwmn]

Well, I'd give you Karma for that, but I already did earlier, so you are SOL..lol

 

[AddictedToBoas]

I've learned so much from this thread, I really appreciate everyone's attempt to inform in addition to warning. I had done some research into IBD when I thought one of my little pythons had it. I can tell you, a lot of what I read was wrong, or just pieces of the whole truth.

 

[The BoidSmith]

but one I'm betting not many breeders take you up on.

Well, it is their loss. Could you imagine the image a breeder could portray by doing so? Aside from contributing to science it would be a great sales pitch. The one who starts with it will be the innovator.

 

[amercnwmn]

There's more cases proving Ashley's quarantine was NOT as stringent as she claimed it to be.

For example: Sakara did NOT quarantine for more than 1-2 months, if at all, before putting these guys in a picture with a snake she has had for about 2yrs

Definitely not good quarantine procedures. This one shows them all together…
BCL comparison... 5yrs, 2yrs, 3mos
Posted in September 2010
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/boas/65275-bcl-compirison-5-years-2-years-3-months.html

Here's when she got the other snakes:
July 2010
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/boas/64328-male-hypermel-anery-bcl.html

July 2010
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/boas/64228-think-worth-going-broke-over.html



So her statement regarding her quarantine period is not accurate.

 

[amercnwmn]

Oops..sorry, forgot to add:

http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/just-talk/67010-new-rodentpro-order-2.html

I don't let rats sit in the enclosure for more than overnight... Because the rat will start deteriorating as soon as it's thawed... If the snake doesn't eat it right away or overnight, someone else gets it

Aside from the fact that you feed a rat that's sat out overnight to another snake...clearly there's some cross-contamination going on there.

 

[amercnwmn]

Incidentally one of the snakes in the above picture IS the one that died from suspected IBD.

 

[sally-dog]

If you are stopping sales, you might want to remove these ads on these sites so everyone is on the same page. I know the ads are a little older, but you should still remove them.

http://redtailboa.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=2594&cat=45
http://redtailboa.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=2593&cat=45

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?...(tharr be more)t=213003&highlight=sakaragt4
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153075&highlight=sakaragt4

Probably whatever ads on Craigslist you have as well. I'm 99.99% sure this is yours because who else has 5 female Bolivians for sale in your area?

 

[amercnwmn]

What baffles me is WHY these snakes were listed for sale AFTER the initial suspicion of IBD??

 

[amercnwmn]

Incidentally one of the snakes in the above picture IS the one that died from suspected IBD.

Sorry was supposed to say "IS NOT".. Snake that died from suspected IBD was last year, this pic was just to show that quarantine was lacking in the collection..

It's too early.