Inquiry ATTENTION ANTHONY OF AC REPTILES.

[Ghostkitten]

Ryan,
I don't know a lot about gekos, but do your others turn over after ending up on their backs with out any problems? Your videos are good to look at. I have to say you do seem to have a lot showing how the animal is behaving. The breathing is what concerns me, I have seen gekos and have never seen an animal labor that way. Have you taken it to a vet? Sorry for intruding on your thread, but this is one animal a friend suggested I might like and I am just interested in the problems that can arise from having them. Thank you.

Brook Lohmeier

 

[KelliH]

Looks healthy as far as weight etc. but appears to have a neurological problem. Perhaps due to exposure to high temps or some sort of chemical. Just a guess.

 

[akonitony]

ENOUGH!!!!
Man, you guys have reminded me why I got out of the exotic animal business some 15 years ago. If my friend were still alive, that being one Ross Allen, he would bitch-slap you both and make you shake hands. I think he would also tell Anthony to quit wasting his time with this guy. He offered to replace the gecko and pay shipping. Yes, he did renig slightly on offering to let Ryan keep her, but AC also explained why in that he wanted to see her in person after a second thought, and admitted to ging back on his word ever so-slightly. If I were him, I would have kept it to one email: if you are not satisfied 100% with your purchase, ship her back and you will be issued credit for another of equal value. Fair enough?
Ryan, if you don't want to ship her back, then take her to the vet and wait until then before you start making accusations. Otherwise, ship her back and let Anthony do what he said he was going to do. If he doesn't replace her like he said, then do the BOI thing. So far, I would have to say I side with the breeder on this one, not that my opinion is unlike a rectum, in that everyone has one, but just from a totally outsider's view, I think AC was being more than fair to 1) extend warranty. 2) offer to replace or "repair". 3) Offer to eat shipping for making things "right" even though there is absolutely no proof (until a DVM says so) there is anything definitely wrong with the gecko. I know a missing tail on a small animal like her can SOMETIMES throw off their balance in a jump...
Bottom line, if ya aint going to ship her back to the breeder, then she is your's and your problem, IMHO.

 

[Talkenlate04]

I don't know a lot about gekos, but do your others turn over after ending up on their backs with out any problems?

My other geckos don't end up on their backs like that. If I grabbed any other gecko I have I would not be able to get it to stay on its back like that. I think I have done fairly well showing what I am seeing here. I can always make more videos. But her behavior is why I am not willing to ship her anywhere.

To bad it had to come to this Anthony. What set me off honestly was you going back on what you said you were going to do, on the day you find out (from me)I posted this thread (see below), a month + after you ignored all my reasonable communications. If that does not smell of stink then I dont know what does. You responded to me less than a few hours after BOI was mentioned in my online email through your site. After ignoring me over a month! That is not coincidence. That is you taking advantage of being well known and trying to stamp out a legitimate issue because it might look bad on you.

Thank You For Filling Out This Form
Below is what you submitted to [email protected] on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 at 03:50:56
________________________________________
name: Ryan Nefcy
comments: Hey Anthony this is Ryan. This is my last ditch effort to get in touch with you. I have also posted an inquiry in the BOI on fauna as well to try and get your attention. I left out all of the details on the BOI except for the fact that I was trying to reach you. Over a month ago you said you would replace the sick gecko I received (still acting the same by the way). Since that last email from you I have sent 6-7 emails (from [email protected]) over the last month trying to wrap this deal up so I can forget about it and call it square but I have been unable to reach you. Please get back to me, I’d rather not be forced to post a bad guy BOI because I really don't feel that way about this transaction yet or previous transactions with you but if I don't hear from you asap I won't have much choice. The fact that I have waited this long has showed my patience I think but a month plus waiting for resolution is a bit over the top don't you think? Please email me back when you get this so we can wrap things up. Thanks, ~Ryan
submit: Send

Looks healthy as far as weight etc. but appears to have a neurological problem. Perhaps due to exposure to high temps or some sort of chemical. Just a guess.

Yep I agree, she eats well, poops regularly and is active. Just a very klutzy version of active. My intent was to breed her, but I have determined that would be unwise at this point because of how she is acting.

akonitony- Ryan, if you don't want to ship her back, then take her to the vet and wait until then before you start making accusations.

Its not an accusation. It's a fact. And excuse me for being more concerned about the animals health than shipping her out right away to claim my gecko.

She will be going to the vet when I can get her there. I have a few 100 of these geckos, it does not take a wonder child to know something is wrong. And I have a feeling that the vet won't be able to peg down what is actually wrong but an help speculate and agree there is something wrong.
That documentation will come, but I bet my bottom dollar it does not change this situation one lick. My vacation is coming up so don't hold your breath for the vet papers, but it will happen. I have 0 to hide in this situation.

I also forgot to mention that I NEVER sought a replacement. I am not the one that brought that into the conversation. Go read the emails I posted. I am not the one that said GIVE ME THIS OR GIVE ME THAT. He offered, and I accepted. Then he changed his mind.

 

[akonitony]

Never said you were trying to get something for nothing, but I am pretty sure she would survive the shipping process since, as you said yourself, she is eating well, and she has survived it once before. It is a necessary evil one must do to resolve this mess unfortunately. Otherwise, like I typed earlier, she is your's. Nothing personal, but if I were in AC's place, I would have made you pay for shipping her back and either replaced her with another of as good or better quality.
Semper Fi, MF (Stands for My Friend),
Tony D.

 

[Talkenlate04]

Semper Fi to you as well.
We have differing opinions on the matter and that is fine by me.
I have to get some sleep now, I worked all night and stayed up way to late with this. I am sure I'll have some good reading when I wake up, but by in large I have said what I needed to.

 

[ajc]

Up to now I only have three real issues.

One, the communication timeline has sucked really bad, there is no way to deny that fact.

This is the only point you have in this entire thing...and I think it's pretty clear that's why you're here.

Two, Admitting something was wrong, agreeing she was acting funny, then trying to claim that you did not see she was holding leaves the first time you watched the video, but that you only watched the first 10 seconds of the video.

I told you that I didn't look very closely at the video. Call me a liar if you want, but after looking back at your email, I realized that maybe this little snippet is why I assumed she was lying on the floor...

Hey Anthony, just an update from me. Here is another video of the female I got from you. She is caught laying flat on her back when I open her setup.
​

At first, I thought she was just writhing around on the floor as your words "laying flat on her back" may have led anyone to believe. I opened the link and then closed it as soon as I saw her wiggling around. I thought she was, as you said, flat on her back and the movement was her trying to get up. Not until today did I realize she was hanging from a piece of foliage and NOT flat on her back...nor did I see the end, where she rolls over and walks away.

If you think I'm lying about not looking at the video closely, then you really need to think about the logic for a second. I have no angle here - no reason to lie about it whatsoever. Plus, I've already said I'm willing to replace her, shipping all done at my expense. How is that not fair?

And my third issue is you stating you want her back because if she recovers you want to use her as a breeder, the fact that you want me to ship her when she is not acting right to being with bothers me.

Really? You care so much about that gecko and you're afraid she'll die in shipping? Come on man - you can't really expect anyone to buy that.

In fact, I'll up the ante and send you a free 20 lot (in addition to the replacement female) if you ship her properly and she doesn't make it. I'm not trying to bribe you into killing a gecko - I'm just that sure that she's not going to die in transit.

Bottom line - if you won't send her back, I have to think something is up....either because she's fine and you're afraid I'll shoot a video of my own - or it's because you're afraid she'll start laying eggs when she gets here. Otherwise, you have absolutely no legitimate reason not to take me up on my offer.

Ryan - Honest to God, I am torn about this, but you're not making it easy to trust you. You have been a good customer and I'd hate to lose you, but this story isn't making any sense to me.

-Anthony

 

[Jadenkisses]

I'm not gecko expert, by any means, but just from watching the videos, I would say there is something definatly wrong with this gecko, in my opinion.

I found something that sounds like it could be what's wrong:

"Star Gazing" in Reptiles
Stargazing describes an unusual body position that is seen in some reptiles, especially snakes, which suffer from a disease or injury that inhibits the normal function of the central nervous system (i.e., the brain and spinal cord). This, in turn, causes the affected reptiles to twist their heads and necks and look upwards towards the sky. Stargazing is not a disease in and of itself, but is a symptom of other disorders, the most important of which is a viral infection of boa constrictors and pythons called inclusion body disease.

Symptoms and Types

A stargazer’s bizarre posture is certainly its most noticeable symptom, but depending on the underlying cause, other problems may also be evident, including:

Difficulty moving
Disorientation
Depression
Tremors
Seizures
Inability to roll off their backs and into a normal position

Boas with inclusion body disease often have a history of vomiting, disinterest in food, weight loss and skin problems. Meanwhile, pythons develop severe neurologic problems so rapidly, that other symptoms are generally not noted.

Causes

Stargazing behavior can be seen with any disease or condition that adversely affects a reptile’s central nervous system. Some of the most common include:

Traumatic injuries
Excessively high or low body temperatures
Exposure to toxic substances
Infections with bacteria, parasites, viruses or other microorganisms

Diagnosis

Stargazing is identified by simply observing the reptile’s body position and behavior. Diagnosing the underlying cause, however, may require blood tests, X-rays, or tissue biopsies.

Treatment

Appropriate treatment for stargazing syndrome depends on its underlying cause. If a bacterial infection is to blame, a veterinarian will prescribe a course of antibiotics. Medications such as corticosteroids can also decrease swelling an inflammation and help under certain circumstances.
Unfortunately, no effective treatment is available for inclusion body disease, a disorder causing stargazing syndrome, but with supportive care, some infected boas will live for months before succumbing to the virus.

Living and Management
Some cases of stargazing resolve with time and treatment. Nutritional support and fluid therapy is often necessary while a reptile is recovering from an episode of stargazing. However, if a reptile’s condition fails to improve despite appropriate therapy, or if its quality of life is poor, euthanasia is the best option.

 

[ajc]

OK - I changed my mind again.

1. As fishy as this looks/sounds, Ryan is right about something - he has been a good customer and after stewing on it all day, I can't see the logic in him lying about this. I've been in a "I'm sick and tired of getting screwed" mood since the girl on here the week before last with the "deformed freak".

And by that same token, I'm not about to treat Ryan like I did her....as much as he offended me with the personal attacks, if he is being truthful, then I can't fault him for being that angry about it.

2. Kelli thinks it's a neuro problem and she gave the same explanation I did at first (chemicals, etc). Having her input on this, and seeing she had the same reaction I did at first, is reassuring. (Thanks Kelli)

3. The longer the day has worn on, the less right I feel about this - even if I am being taken advantage of (which I doubt). I've always taken the approach that it's better to get screwed over by a dishonest customer a couple times a year than it is to ever screw one customer.

Ryan - I'll shoot you my cell number in an email and we'll work this out on the phone.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Way to step up to the plate Anthony

 

[chamgirl99471]

Anthony, This is what the BOI is for! Good for you! Hope you two can work this out as true gentlemen

 

[Saille]

Understandable that the girl with the "deformed freak" thread would raise hackles, (she is on my Never Sell To" list because of how she treated people/things!) needless to say, that is part of the crappy territory of dealing with some people and I'm sorry you had to deal with that, Anthony.
I do have to say though, while it is understandable to be irritated as hell at that sort of "person", its not fair to take that sort of thing out on other customers.
I agree, way to step up to the plate, I know Ryan and I honestly do not believe he is lying or would lie about this. I totally hope that you guys can work it out and that all will be well.

 

[Talkenlate04]

OK - I changed my mind again.

1. As fishy as this looks/sounds, Ryan is right about something - he has been a good customer and after stewing on it all day, I can't see the logic in him lying about this. I've been in a "I'm sick and tired of getting screwed" mood since the girl on here the week before last with the "deformed freak".

And by that same token, I'm not about to treat Ryan like I did her....as much as he offended me with the personal attacks, if he is being truthful, then I can't fault him for being that angry about it.

2. Kelli thinks it's a neuro problem and she gave the same explanation I did at first (chemicals, etc). Having her input on this, and seeing she had the same reaction I did at first, is reassuring. (Thanks Kelli)

3. The longer the day has worn on, the less right I feel about this - even if I am being taken advantage of (which I doubt). I've always taken the approach that it's better to get screwed over by a dishonest customer a couple times a year than it is to ever screw one customer.

Ryan - I'll shoot you my cell number in an email and we'll work this out on the phone.

I wake up expecting to find fire and brimstone but instead.............this. I can honestly say I did not think the conversation would turn this way.........EVER.

Look man you took a defensive position, I took a defensive position, and we both started slinging mud out of frustration. It is what it is and it can't be changed now.

I have had to deal with crafty con artists in my day too. I sold a lot of tarantulas in the past and one customer figured out that if they kept a frozen baby of the species they liked in the freezer, when they got a package they could take the baby out and thaw it over and over again and use it has photo/video proof of a death on arrival to get a replacement for free. Since tarantulas look the same I sent 6 replacements before the x girlfriend one the way out the door leaving him called me to tell me how he was scamming me. I was actually starting to re think my packing capabilities! I was still pretty new to selling online at the time so I focused really hard on not getting that bad review from that person, but once I found out what the real deal was I had to harden myself to the thought that not everyone out there is going to be honest.

And as far as we go I have been involved with far worse. I ordered $1500 worth of things one summer and got an empty box from the seller. Paypal ruled in his favor because he could prove I was shipped something but I could not prove the box was freaking empty! It's just natural to assume a defensive position when crap like this happens, I can not fault you there at all. Especially with the number of people you sell to and the few jack offs that you have run ins with.

I will wait for the email with your phone number and we will go from there.
Thank you.

 

[akonitony]

Kumbaya... MFs! (Stands for My Friends)
Glad to see y'all took some advice from the ol' timer and quit with the "you got chocolate in my peanut butter vs. you got peanut butter on my chocolate". I thought we were going to have to throw a bucket of water on y'all. Been around since the dead sea was only sick, and I can tell you one thing for sure: what goes around comes around. That, and as Roseanne Rosannadanna once said: Wherever you go, there you are, and it's always something.
So can we all exchange underwear now?
(Yeah, I know my elevator doesn't go to the top floor, but my wife still loves me)

 

[chazzz]

Way to be Professional Anthony and Ryan!!!!
From the beginning I felt all the tension was out of defense on both parts. Not once did I get the feeling either one of you were out to take advantage of one another. The BOI can be a tough place sometimes to resolve an issue between two parties both being good guys but also strong willed. It's hard not to be on the defense to protect yourself and your business from being attacked by anyone with an opinion. Luckily the maturity of both parties was able to make an appearance here and address the reality of the situation with the likes of an amicable resolve. It's sad how rare this is and the more common practice of similar issues is to bring a shovel than a brain. Some people just can't get out of their own way. But thankfully the BOI allows them to bring a shovel to show off just how big of a hole they dug themselves and how proud they are about it.
The BOI also allows them to step back realize just how dangerous that hole is and the best choice would be to man up to your mistake regardless of how deep and start filling that hole back up.
I'll end it there I think most understand what I'm trying to say. It's just really great that as heated as it got both parties were able to get out of there own way and make this BOI story a success. Hopefully people that have had trouble doing that in the past can learn from this. Also people that have never had an issue before should realize most likely they will at some point. As said time and time again here on the BOI it's not about how many good transactions you have but how you handle the bad ones.

 

[Abby]

I'm glad you two seem to be coming to an agreement

 

[Talkenlate04]

I'm glad you two seem to be coming to an agreement

Well we shale see if that is the case soon enough I hope. I still am waiting on that email with his number.

 

[Talkenlate04]

Shale = shall. I have to stop posting things this late at night!

 

[Shadera]

Excellent! Glad to see that things will be resolved, hopefully to the satisfaction of both parties.

 

[chamgirl99471]

If Anthony is still having problems with his E-mail perhaps a PM would work better in this case... Just glad to see you guys are communicating again, it's a step in the right direction