attitude to a reply will scare off newbies?

[gothra]

Here is the situation:

Someone was asking a question about his 1-2 months old leopard gecko not eating for 3 days; he is keeping his leo in the bathroom at room temp, he has a hide and loose substrate (not sand, maybe mixture of moss and soil), he's also feeding him 1.5-2.5cm crickets. A photo was attached, the baby is stick-thin.

I replied the following:
- throw away the substrate and change that to paper towel.
- get a thermometer and raise the temp a bit, because if he has air-conditioning in his apartment, room temp is no way enough for a leo, especially his was sick baby.
- move the whole setting to a room that has less activities, and not to disturb the little one unless he is cleaning, feeding and changing water.
- offer smaller prey items, the crickets should be smaller than the width of the gecko's head.
- get a fecal done if possible.
- if he find his leo lethargic, and sleeping all the time, he MUST take him to a vet asap.
I did explain to him why I am giving such and such suggestions.

Then he replied me that he has air conditioning, but the bathroom door is always closed, so room temp should be fine. The bathroom is also spacious, so that won't affect the gecko. He did change to paper towel, and bought smaller crickets. But he also mentioned that the leo had been sleeping day and night, he's worried but he can't afford for a vet visit.

I didn't reply after this one, but I read that he tried many things to help his leo, including force feeding, buying vaious stuff from petshops to stimulate appetite...etc.

A week later, he said his leo died. If you were me, what would you say to him? Maybe its wise to not reply, but I'd like to know what you guys think. This is his first gecko and I think he is a 13 yr old kid.

 

[Vince]

tell him before he gets a new leo, go buy a book and study up. he should of knew that you cant feed a baby leo big ol chrickets like that. let him know it happens to everyone, and not to feel bad that the leo didnt make it. a lot of pet shop animals arent heathy when you bring them home in the first place. and that after he is ready to get a new one maybe he should start off with an adult, or established juvie.

 

[shrap]

The biggest thing is to get him to understand that he MUST educate himself about the particular animal he is going to keep.

I am 36 years old and had kept snakes from the time I was 10 years old until about 21. Then got out of the hobby. I recently got back into it with Leos. I read for 2 months, a couple of hours a day. Books and every web site and care sheet I could possibly find (thanks to many of you for having care sheets!! Your time in writing those for others to learn from have proven to be invaluable. I truly mean that). Then I purchased. Too many people do not take the responsibility of owning pets seriously. Particularly herps. It pisses me off. They are not a cat or a dog. They have very special needs that MUST be fulfilled. Educate yourself first and make sure you are capable and willing to meet those needs. BEFORE YOU BUY.

That is the one thing I stress to anybody looking to get into herps. EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION!!!

 

[Hurricane]

Yeah, ive been studyin for about a month now on leos, and still havent brought my self to buy one cuz i dont think i have enough info lol. ive got a book, and have read a TON of caresheets on line mostly from the links of some of your guyses sites. ive been keepin bluetongues for about 6 yrs now but have never kept a leo. I must thanks you guys that have all these very nice sites with good care sheets and stuff, also, you guys have BEAUTIFUL leos. thanks for the care sheets, and thanks for the time and effort that you guys put into your websites and hope to buy some leos sometime next year.

 

[gothra]

Ok, this is what happened...

Whilst everyone is saying "I'm really sorry for your loss, you've already done what you can...etc.", I couldn't control myself and told him that I am sorry for the leo, but I don't sympathize him; because I explained to him the problems that I could see, and he insisted what he was doing is fine; I stressed to him that he must take his leo to a vet, but he didn't even bother to ask where he could find a vet or the approximate costs required.

I got jumped on by a few others (possibly kids too), and it turned to a flamed thread. In the end, the original poster said he was just trying to ask a question, he'd already lost his leo, and he can't accept being told off like this. He said even if he gets another pet in the future, he'll make sure he won't ask any questions again!! I'm suprised the kids now-a-days are spoiled to a point that they can only listen to nice words; I might be wrong to sound harsh to him, but I thought pointing out what he has done wrong is way better than just say "You tried your best."?

A side note, someone said its not worth taking the leo to the vet since the leo baby costs less than $20!! This is why I got angry.

edit: Vince, I think what you said is absolutely right, I wish I had higher EQ; I think everything will come on smoothly if I just took a deep breath and wrote everything nicely...sigh...

 

[Xelda]

Bonnie, it's unfortunate but that type of situation will happen over and over again. I know I've lost my temper more than a time or two. It's best to not let it bother you. Save your efforts for people who show a willingness to learn.

 

[Vince]

no I might of been angry to since they said it wouldnt be worth bringing it to the vet. you helped him ether way.

 

[Snarks]

Pah

I've done way worse, i'm a huge "Female dog", however i use big enough words (yay 4years of Uni education) that they have no retorts.
What i hate more is how the parents of these kids don't know squat either. I'm sorry i feel bad for these kids cuz they want some attention from an animal and their parents aren't willing to support nor educate themselves.

I of course am assuming that this guy in question was young. But i'm sorry when i'm a parent and i know many of you are, i am not letting anything in my house unless i know what the heck it is.

You tried your hardest, people who flamed you obviously have not read the SAME posts of the SAME problems from the SAME type of people over and over again.
But don't give up, if you can save one leo from educating one kid then its worth being yelled at by ignorant people.

 

[SableLynx]

Shrap-I am sure you did not mean

The biggest thing is to get him to understand that he MUST educate himself about the particular animal he is going to keep.

It pisses me off. They are not a cat or a dog. They have very special needs that MUST be fulfilled.

this to sound the way it did. It seems to imply people do not need to research or educate themselves to own a cat or a dog. As a volunteer at my local Humane society helping to retrain and socialize dogs and cats turned in by ignorant owners I would disagree with that logic. All pets require perspective owners to research and educate themselves as much as possible prior to taking on the responsibility.

 

[Lucille]

1) If someone comes to this board and asks, you're 50% there. The very act of coming here shows some receptiveness to education.

2) There are faqs and good leo sites all over. Find one, or two, or ten; and in your role as educators and helpers of newbies (and newbie lizards as well) just attach that list of references to any question you answer. Sort of like, 'you came for a snack but here is a whole feast'.

3) Unless you are in Hell or on the BOI, try to keep criticism to a minimum. While the person certainly may deserve it, they will not return for more information after it is given, and your goal is the comfort and well being of that little newbie lizard.
a) While, being human, the temptation to show anger or to write something nasty if someone does not learn fast enough and their animal dies is very strong, fight it here on the forum (have at it on the BOI). After all, if that person gets another animal, he or she may be back and may at that time be in a more receptive learning mode.
b) <font color=red>[**censored**]</font> happens. Move on, and try to understand that your totally natural and appropriate anger is not going to net results.
You are right. Your feelings are appropriate. If you need to validate them, don't scare off the person you are talking to. Instead, email a friend, talk to your dog (no I am not kidding; I tell my Shih Tzu all the time when someone does something stupid; some Asian cultures would actually have a specified plant outside the entrance to their home and when one felt anger, or sadness, or etc. one could go talk to that plant and then return to the inside of the home with the stress and distress cleansed from one's system), or post here but do not identify the person.

4) No matter how beautifully you have presented your facts, people learn at their own rate. You know this from high school. Some people go home and steadily plow through info. Some people wait until the night before the final. Usually, those same patterns persist. While I realize that we are dealing with a live critter here, it is just a fact that certain people absorb information in patterns they have previously established. Hence the attachments of websites to your answers: When they are ready, the information will be there.

5) Above all, remember that if you are here, and you are trying to meet this person halfway and help, you need to have someone tell you that as a teacher, you are among the best people, with the most difficult jobs, on earth. I am telling you, YOU ROCK!

 

[Xelda]

1) If someone comes to this board and asks, you're 50% there. The very act of coming here shows some receptiveness to education.

Well... there are quite a few people who will ask for advice, but when the advice isn't what they want to hear, they get upset and proceed with the plan that they were asking about in the first place. This happens over and over again on many forums. It doesn't really seem to be as much of a problem on Fauna, but I was under the impression that Bonnie encountered this person on another message board. Also, it seems more like the person Bonnie mentioned was seeking support, not seeking advice.

 

[shrap]

Re: Shrap-I am sure you did not mean

this to sound the way it did. It seems to imply people do not need to research or educate themselves to own a cat or a dog. As a volunteer at my local Humane society helping to retrain and socialize dogs and cats turned in by ignorant owners I would disagree with that logic. All pets require perspective owners to research and educate themselves as much as possible prior to taking on the responsibility.

My point there was that cats and dogs have been kept for so long as pets that their basic needs are almost common knowledge. I agree that certain breeds have special needs and people should educate themselves when purchasing any pet. But I really do not believe MOST people who have turned in screwed up cats and dogs to shelters were unknowing....I think they were uncaring.

 

[gothra]

The whole thing happened in another forum, on the other side of the globe. Olivia, you're right, I do feel strongly that he's after a method that can fix his gecko without taking it to the vet. I feel bad because he has the time to save his leo, yet he decides to try all sorts of things himself, like force feeding, giving NutriBAC, Reptoboost...etc. I actually think that he stressed his leo to death.

Sorry guys, this incident had been in my head for a few days, I really needed a place to say it out.

 

[Devious_bunny]

I know exactly how frustrating this can be! I have a friend who got a two geckos from "Petcrap" one is healthy, growing, and eating fine. but the other one never grew at all, it was stick skinny (they bought it because it was the "runt" and it was the last one left, they also didnt understand that leos arent like dogs, and the skinny ones are malnurished or sick...) they just never thought it was sick or even questioned why it was so skinny. so i go over to see it, and i'm like omg how old is he, turns out the poor thing is almost a year old and it weighed less than 20g, stick skinny tail, and it has no appetite, and runny stool! so i *kindly* suggest that they take it to a vet, and the vet will help him get better. but they just never did it, they ignoliged that "insert leos name here" was sick, but never gave a second thought to taking him to a vet! and its not like they couldnt afford it, it just wasnt something they wanted to do. and i kept trying to tell them that he could be saved if they just get him to a vet, but because it was a friend so i couldnt just get all mad and say stuff like he WILL die if he dosent get help!!! its not right for him to be 1 year old and be stick skinny and weigh 20g!!!! and so one day he just died, and all they had to say about it was, we was sick, and now hes in a better place. and i wanted to tell them it was their fault, and he didnt have to die.....but i didnt, i just said it was sad. worst of all, the response of the owner is that they were going to save up their money for another one! but i know they will never change, and i have no controle over the situation, so i tryed, and thats all i could do!

 

[Hurricane]

that is so sad and mean of those people. een if it were a $50 dollar gecko or snake and it needed like a $500 treatment... id pay for it. cuz animals have fealings to.