bmr1052
Member
My issue with Chaz from Avangel Geckos starts as follows..
I came across Avangel Geckos Facebook page and saw his posting of a YouTube video discussing his gecko projects. While watching his videos I came across a video titled AVANGEL SNOW
( http://youtu.be/91uYgYjAKzo )
In his video he shows what he calls his own line of snow, the avangel snow. Interested, I commented on his video asking if this was a new line ( meaning different from mack, tug, gem, etc...) and If so how was it created? Chaz responded with " we crossed a few different lines then used selective breeding to achieve what we wanted as far as colors go". I then asked what line of snow he started with, because the end result, no matter what type of select breeding for colors he did, would still be the base snow line he started with. He became very upset and told me it wasn't any other line out there, it was in fact his own line. Even though he admitted starting with an existing snow line, he now claims it is genetically different from any other snow line on the market.
I logged back on to YouTube to reply to his comment only to find he had erased all of my comments. So I private messaged him. I asked him to just explain what snow line he started and how he would market its genetics because it is important as a customer and a breeder to know what genetics you have in an animal. He again stated its genetics as Avangel snow. he directed me to look at his Facebook page and see for myself how different his avangel snow line is compared to other snow lines on the market.
As I looked through the photos, it was hard to tell how they were different from mack snows I have seen elsewhere, he even had a Avangel super snow, I asked him If he might be using the term " own line" as in its a mack snow that we selectively bred to our liking and it is our line in that sense. He responded again with no, it is a genetically different line all together.... I asked him straight out how he came across a new line if he admits to starting with an existing line and he responded with the following email.....
You are right about me producing good quality morphs which states that I am not out to just hustle people with crap because I put everything it takes to make my geckos stand out. I understand what you are saying. You also said something about there being a line bred snow, why can mine not be. I did not take a mack snow and made it to my liking. I took a mack snow as well as another morph that is not snow at all but dominant and combined it to the mack morph. My snows are not like mack snows though, because what it took to create them. Lets use ball pythons for an example. A spider to a pinstripe makes spinners. If you breed a spinner to a normal, you can create spiders spinners and pinstripes as well as normals, which the spinner is not a new morph. If I took an orange ghost and bred it to a butterscotch ghost that is all they will be, but if I took the offspring of the two and continued to breed them together. It would not be called a butterscotch ghost or and orange ghost because it is now a new form of the ghost. The color becomes more darker or different than the two. So when you publicly state that I do not know my stuff, it can be a little upsetting. The avangel line snow is just that. When I am ready I will tell the history of the gecko. My snows are distinctively different from any other snow out there, no matter if it makes super snow or not. I do not know if this is going to convince you but after this message I will not be able to reply back on this topic. The only proof will be when I sell them is if they sell or cease to exist. Thank you for comments and questions. I hope you enjoy your labor day weekend.
AS you can see, he clearly admits to starting with a mack snow but now claims " we crossed it with something dominant". I don't understand how if he admits to using mack snows, how he can then turn around and say it isn't a mack snow? Then he goes into using ball pythons as his evidence. But it doesn't really prove his case .
No doubt his geckos are awesome, but I think it is misleading to label them and sell them to customers as a new genetically different line. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I came to the conclusion that he either A) didn't quite understand the way the genetics worked or B) was intentionally deceiving people by misrepresenting his animals. Chaz didn't respond to my last private message so I thought I would post here.
I don't mean to bash the guy, but when a potential customer asks a basic question and you become super defensive and spew facts and information that don't make any sense, then refuse to talk all together, it doesn't make you look good.
I came across Avangel Geckos Facebook page and saw his posting of a YouTube video discussing his gecko projects. While watching his videos I came across a video titled AVANGEL SNOW
( http://youtu.be/91uYgYjAKzo )
In his video he shows what he calls his own line of snow, the avangel snow. Interested, I commented on his video asking if this was a new line ( meaning different from mack, tug, gem, etc...) and If so how was it created? Chaz responded with " we crossed a few different lines then used selective breeding to achieve what we wanted as far as colors go". I then asked what line of snow he started with, because the end result, no matter what type of select breeding for colors he did, would still be the base snow line he started with. He became very upset and told me it wasn't any other line out there, it was in fact his own line. Even though he admitted starting with an existing snow line, he now claims it is genetically different from any other snow line on the market.
I logged back on to YouTube to reply to his comment only to find he had erased all of my comments. So I private messaged him. I asked him to just explain what snow line he started and how he would market its genetics because it is important as a customer and a breeder to know what genetics you have in an animal. He again stated its genetics as Avangel snow. he directed me to look at his Facebook page and see for myself how different his avangel snow line is compared to other snow lines on the market.
As I looked through the photos, it was hard to tell how they were different from mack snows I have seen elsewhere, he even had a Avangel super snow, I asked him If he might be using the term " own line" as in its a mack snow that we selectively bred to our liking and it is our line in that sense. He responded again with no, it is a genetically different line all together.... I asked him straight out how he came across a new line if he admits to starting with an existing line and he responded with the following email.....
You are right about me producing good quality morphs which states that I am not out to just hustle people with crap because I put everything it takes to make my geckos stand out. I understand what you are saying. You also said something about there being a line bred snow, why can mine not be. I did not take a mack snow and made it to my liking. I took a mack snow as well as another morph that is not snow at all but dominant and combined it to the mack morph. My snows are not like mack snows though, because what it took to create them. Lets use ball pythons for an example. A spider to a pinstripe makes spinners. If you breed a spinner to a normal, you can create spiders spinners and pinstripes as well as normals, which the spinner is not a new morph. If I took an orange ghost and bred it to a butterscotch ghost that is all they will be, but if I took the offspring of the two and continued to breed them together. It would not be called a butterscotch ghost or and orange ghost because it is now a new form of the ghost. The color becomes more darker or different than the two. So when you publicly state that I do not know my stuff, it can be a little upsetting. The avangel line snow is just that. When I am ready I will tell the history of the gecko. My snows are distinctively different from any other snow out there, no matter if it makes super snow or not. I do not know if this is going to convince you but after this message I will not be able to reply back on this topic. The only proof will be when I sell them is if they sell or cease to exist. Thank you for comments and questions. I hope you enjoy your labor day weekend.
AS you can see, he clearly admits to starting with a mack snow but now claims " we crossed it with something dominant". I don't understand how if he admits to using mack snows, how he can then turn around and say it isn't a mack snow? Then he goes into using ball pythons as his evidence. But it doesn't really prove his case .
No doubt his geckos are awesome, but I think it is misleading to label them and sell them to customers as a new genetically different line. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I came to the conclusion that he either A) didn't quite understand the way the genetics worked or B) was intentionally deceiving people by misrepresenting his animals. Chaz didn't respond to my last private message so I thought I would post here.
I don't mean to bash the guy, but when a potential customer asks a basic question and you become super defensive and spew facts and information that don't make any sense, then refuse to talk all together, it doesn't make you look good.
