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Baby ball issue...

C

calvinh

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I read many many posts about feeding issues with baby ball pythons and I understand there may not be any other info other than what is already out there on this forum, but here is my issue anyway. These are not my first snakes or ball pythons. I have kept snakes since I was young and have six other pythons and boas now. fortunately, I have never had a major feeding issue, especially in babies until now.

I bought a female cinnamon ball python at a reptile show in West palm beach on August 27th. I bought her and a male pastel from the same guy. They did not have mites or any physical issues and I really liked both so I did not ask too many questions besides: when did they last eat. I was told they both ate on thursday the 25th. The next week I went to feed and the pastel jumped on the hopper fairly quick, but the female seemed almost scared of the mouse. She would not even try to strike. I tried putting her in a small brown bag with the mouse live and pre-killed and no luck. I thought maybe she just wasnt hungry so I waited until the next week. The next week I got a fuzzie thinking maybe the hopper was too big, but she still seemed terrified of it. again I left her in a brown bag in a quiet place and no luck. Again she never even attempted to strike. Now it is coming upon the third week and she has not eaten. She is starting to get thin. I have never had to assist feed a snake. Is this common?? Should I have someone with experience do it?? I hate that she is having so much trouble and am mega irratated that she was sold at all. I really love how tight the reptile community is and would really appreciate any advice.
 
If she is losing a considerable amount of weight, and you really feel the need to intervene instead of waiting her out, here is how to safely assist feed:
Prekill or buy a frozen pink mouse. Gently take her head in your non dominant hand (I'm right handed, so I would hold her in my left hand) between your thumb and index finger, just behind her jaw. Try to use the rest of your hand to keep the top of her neck slightly stright. She will indefinetly wriggle and protest, let her back half do whatever it wants and hold her head firm.
Take the head of the pinky between the thumb and index finger of your other hand and slowly and gently wiggle it into her mouth. Once you are sure you are past her airway (the opening under her tongue) gently push the head into her throat and hold it there until her teeth catch the body, she will be wiggling quite a bit. Once her teeth catch it, lower her into her cage and release her head and the pinky (and her if you can avoid dropping her) She should start to take it down if done correctly and you should be able to watch her.
If you don't understand anything, feel free to ask, I had a captive hatch male who I always say "was born without the killing gene". I assist fed him for the first 4 months. He knew just what to do once it was in his mouth.. but was terrified of anything else.
There is also a few decent videos if you google "assist feeding ball python".
If you don't want to take that route, you could always expose the brain matter of the prey item. Sometimes that entices them.
 
I agree with everything Kylie said.

Cept she forgot to add. If for some reason she spits it out once you put her in her container, do it again and just hold her in your hand and wait for her to eat it, once she is done, place her in the container. I've had instances where they rub the pinkie across the sides of the tub to try and get it out of their mouth. Good luck!!
 
thank you kelly, lol I havent actually had one try THAT hard to get it out once the head was down the throat. Only with larger items. But I like the pink mice, as they are just about small enough I could stick the whole thing in there if I needed! Also, if youre having trouble getting it far ebough down the throat with your fingers, dont be afraid to use some tongs or tweezers to gently push the pink from the butt down its throat. Less snagging on your fingers too!
 
I guess i am way worried about hurting her. Thanks for the great advise. I think i may try to find someone that will show me how to do it. I watched the videos as advised and it seems like something you could mess up without some practice...
 
Out of curiosity, what is your setup like? If she actually was feeding and now is not, my guess is maybe she doesn't like something about it. Also, how are you normally offering food (I know you tried the brown bag, but I'm guessing that's not your normal method)? I have had some babies that are initially very shy and picky about eating. I've had good luck covering the rack with a towel for a few days and leaving them completely alone, then feeding them at night and completely leaving the room for while...I've had stubborn feeders that this works for.
 
Calvin, Im not sure you have to force feed at all unless she looks skinny. For one, sometimes it takes them time to get settled in. For two, maybe she doesnt eat mice? Maybe she eats rat pinks or fuzzies or ASF fuzzies? There are just too many 'what ifs". Unless towards her tail is looking skinny, i.e. skin kind of hanging, I would just try her on something other then a live mouse. Also, some snakes are accustomed to frozen thawed as well, so, maybe she would prefer that over something live? I would try any options possible before force feeding, especially if you have no experience doing it. It stresses the snake to a great degree and you could cause more problems then help.
 
& I realized my sentence makes little sense, what I meant to say, dont force feed her unless she looks skinny towards the tail or is starting to be lethargic
 
Yeah you shouldn't need to force "assist" feed unless she really needs it. She will come around on her own and you need to exhaust every method ie:rat pups, mouse hoppers, asf pups, etc. before doing this. Shantel is exactly right. I've had some babies that will not touch a rat pup but will eat the heck out of mouse hoppers but most of mine I start on F/T rat pinkies. Have you informed the seller of your troubles feeding her, what did they say/what did they tell you she was feeding on before you bought her?
 
I think my set up it good. I have a small rack that has the babies in a 8 quart tub with a small heat pad in the rear of each tub. I also have a day and night light over the entire rack. They do not do much except keep the area around the tubs from getting chilly(We have central air and they do not have their own room, but they have their own area...). Typically I keep the temp at between 75 to 85 with 85 being the area nearest to the heat pad. and the humidity at about 60%.

Normally, I have no issues at all with feeding so I never had to give it much thought. I have been using repti bark so, I like to put them in a seperate tub with only paper towels for feesing. I had an adult female braz. rainbow boa get a piece of the bark stuck in her mouth when she struck and missed a rat. However, I also tried to feed her in her actual tub, as was suggested. She is starting to look skinny to me and is definately the smallest of all the balls I have around the same age. I just figured she was a month or so younger. I have tried many different suggestions, but I do have a few more things to try before I panic.

As far as assist feeding, I do not believe I am personally doing it, period. Maybe after I see someone else in person do it I may feel more comfortable. For now, I just do not trust myself with my only teacher being written correspondence and you tube. I do not want to cause more issues. She already acts like she is terrifyed of mice. I dont want to make it worse by doing it the wrong way.

I guess I need to get a african soft fur (i think thats what they r called) and rub a dark mouse on it.. Btw, where can you get a dark hopper??

Thx for all advice!!

Calvin
 
Force "assist" feeding is pretty much self explanatory and you can't do it wrong. You push a rat very slowly and carefully down their throat simple as that. There's nothing scientific about it. You just can't be shy about it and always think you are going to hurt them. They aren't "that" delicate.
 
I would either ditch the lights all together if you can keep temps up without them or at least use the night bulb 24/7. The light may be stressing her out. Does she have a hide? If not, give her one. You could throw some crumpled newspaper in there too. Is she in a high traffic area?
 
I have to contradict u Dustin and say that force feeding can in fact hurt ur snake if not done properly, had a lil boa girl die on me when I was learning. (I know its hard to believe a boa wouldnt eat but everyone has their freaks) I got a het clown girl last year at the NRBE, didnt eat for about a month and a half before I force fed her, once she got past force feeding and onto assist feeding all I had to do was put the rodent in her mouth with the nose barely touching her throat and she just let instinct take over and started to wrap it. If u have to use something besides ur finger to get it in there I used a pen that had a rounded back that way I didnt poke her mouth on accident, also I started pushing at the back of the rodents skull and work my way up from there. Be careful doing so if ur using pinks because they have a tendancy to pop. And no one likes baby rat goo all over their hands. But one thing is for sure once u force/assist feed them, they dam sure aint head shy anymore. If u were a bit closer Id offer for u to come over and Ill show u how to do it and get a meal in her, but u r down the road a piece so I guess this post is the best I can do for ya. If u can post a pic so we can advise whether or not she looks like she needs assist feeding, and honestly I would wait as long as possible before u try.
 
Oh yea forgot to add I wouldnt use lights at all for balls. they are a nocturnal species, and the light at night maybe stressing her out.
 
It the boa was already refusing food who knows if it was from your doings by force feeding, I didn't have any problems at all when I did it. I had two that wouldn't eat for me this year but after about three feedings they started eating live pups. I'm just saying I think if you've been around snakes long enough it will come pretty easy. You have to give them enough time to let their jaw come unhitched and for it to go down gradually you don't want to stuff it down. But yeah I used the same method you described using a the end of a sharpie to assist it a little ways. But yes I do agree on the fact that you should hold out as long as possible before doing this and pictures would help on advising you what to do.
 
Dustin, theres someone locally I know of who is a few marbles short..Anyways, he used to do alot of snake breeding, hes probably one of the reasons I got into it because his wife did my daughter's childcare and I used to always love looking at all his snakes. Anyways, he claims that hes had ball pythons move in such way while force feeding that they broke their neck. I personally have had to force feed quite a few times, and, had to learn by reading info online. But, things like that come naturally to me, thus why I was going to school for veterinary (but didnt get past my associates due to my new baby being born). So, Calvin, yes, you can kill an animal force feeding (unless the person I knew was making up stories which is also possible). Do I think it is likely that you will kill your snake force feeding it? NO, I do not. The important thing is make sure that you are firm enough that the snake is not able to move its body while you have its head and is force feeding it. Also, make sure you are sticking the food down the right hole. You dont want to try to stick it in its windpipe hole which is under its tongue. The method I use is I try assist feeding just by sticking the thing in its mouth and then setting it down in its tub and leaving the tub open and standing there watching not moving. If it spits it out, then, thats when you have to do it all over again and stick it down its throat and massage it downwards down its throat. I use my pinkie finger to push it down (but, Im also a very big chick so my pinkies are kinda small) so, larger individuals such as guys or bigger people may have issues with that method. Hopefully though, you wont have to force feed. Do post a picture..:)
 
wow Shantel thats horrible he must have really been forcing those pinkies into the baby snakes for them to break their necks. How are they doing now Calvin?
 
I just want to clarify something. It seem like the terms "force feeding" and "assist feeding" are getting used interchangeably in this thread. They are not the same thing. Force feeding generally involves the use of a pinky pump and is more invasive than assist feeding. Assist feeding involves placing a prey item in the mouth or throat of the snake and is much less drastic than force feeding. Assist feeding is fairly easy to learn...force feeding I would not recommend trying without expert help.

Also, I would recommend rat pinks over mouse pinks if you are going to assist feed...my theory is that if I am going to stress the snake I want them to get a decent meal out of it and a mouse pink is pretty tiny for bp.

Hope this helps,
Shelly
 
I agree Shelly, but to advocate it may be better for him to start with mouse pinks because they are smaller and easier to shove in the throat, and if possible u can back to back a couple of them. Rat pinks may be a lil difficult for him before he gets some xp under his belt.
 
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