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Bad Guy Bad Chondro from Ray Morrow (aka Brotherray)

O

Oxyrhynchus

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Unfortunately this past weekend, I had a very bad transaction with Ray. I don't know if I spoke to Ray directly (there were several people working the same booth), but his name was on the receipt so it is his business.

I came looking for a Green Tree Python. I have wanted one for a while but have never worked with an aggressive species. He had one marked "tame" so I asked about it. It was an unsexed Biak yearling marked $275. It looked healthy as I could tell. I asked if he had noticed anything of concern he said it was healthy as can be and that he had treated for parasites after import just in case. I had never worked with Ray before, but he seemed knowledgeable and I liked that he had treated for parasites just to be sure. So I grabbed the snake.

Well as soon as I got home it all started to fall apart. I noticed quickly that the snake had a minor respiratory infection. No big deal. I wasn't happy, but it wasn't a major infection. I figured things like that happen during import. So I start treating the snake with the Vick's Vapor rub remedy (Which after a few days seems to be working well). However, I noticed a mite crawling around on the snake when I had him out to treat him. So I further quarantined the snake, cleaned out the cage further, bleached, baked and froze everything. But as I went to check the snake over, I noticed 3 spots of inflammation and missing scales.

At this point I am very frustrated. I am operating under the assumption that the missing scales are probably from the mites, and likely not a sign of something more serious or grave. But now I can't get in contact with Ray. He emailed the receipt to me with no contact information other than a name. I found him on here and messaged him a few days ago and he has yet to respond. I also sent the message to his email.

I understand if you work with a lot of snakes something like a minor respiratory infection and mites might slip through. But you should be able to be contacted by customers and you should be prepared to own up bad deals you have made.

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What are the dates of the day you bought the snake, the day you noticed the RI, the day you noticed the missing scales? This could help us understand how quickly these thing happened.
 
Did you notice the RI at the show? Did you handle the chondro prior to purchase? What was it put in when you purchased it?
 
I've never heard of a mite causing missing scales, I would think there would have to be a MASSIVE amount of mites to cause such damage. I am thinking it may be something like a bacteria/fungal infection. I would recommend experienced vet care ASAP.
 
Oxyrhynchus said:
I figured things like that happen during import. So I start treating the snake with the Vick's Vapor rub remedy (Which after a few days seems to be working well.
Click to expand...
YIKES! if you expect to save this python get off the computer an into a good herp vets office.
 
Hi, that was my table at the show. I explained to you very implicitly that it was a fresh import and that it would need to be treated for parasites. You handled the animal fpr probably 20 minutes at the show and decided that it was in good enough condition to purchase- as far as the wounds and any supposed respiratory issues go, those were absolutely not present at the time of sale. What would you like me to do about this exactly?
 
I purchased the snake Saturday the 22nd. The person I talked to at the show and made the purchase from said the animal had been in his care for over a month and that he had already treated it for parasites. I only handled the animal briefly and it was perched the whole time. I think that is why I didn't notice the wounds, because I never got a look at it's ventral side. It was transported in a deli cup with paper towel in the bottom.

I noticed the respiratory infection as soon as I got home. I immediately herd popping in it's breathing. I didn't see any mucus coming from the nostrils and I still haven't seen any. As I said, it is relatively minor.

I noticed the mites the following day (Sunday the 23rd). I cleaned his cage that day, but he was being pretty nippy so I didn't get a great chance to check him over until today which is when I noticed the wounds.

He is housed in a clear plastic tub with a PVC perch, paper towel substrate and heated with a pad on a thermostat. Because of the RI, I'm keeping the temp up -around 90 on the hot side, 85 cold. The humidity has been a little high, around 85% most of the time and dropping as low as 60%.
 
Mike was this Chondro actually labeled as tame? I have a lot to say probably to much so I'd rather wait until some of the discrepancies get flushed out before I contribute to this thread.
 
I'm curious, but why did you settle for an import and not a CB GTP?

There is always risks to taking in WC animals, and more times than not they will have a lot of parasites or health issues. Between what they can pick up in nature and the stress of being transported it's kind of a given, especially if the WC animal hasn't been in captivity for very long.
 
Yup, it was very friendly to me. I deal with lot of imported chondros and this one was very curious and active as while I handled it. I handled it several times during the show and let a few interested customers handle it as well (another reason to treat for mites after shows)

I always tell everybody to treat any and every animal entering their collection for external parasites, especially animals from reptile shows and extra especially imported animals. Im sorry if you misheard me but I would never tell anybody not to treat a new animal... i treat everything that enters my personal collection.

My issue here is that nobody, not me or my associate ray was contacted about the issue, and you didnt post on fauna until today. I see my previously flawless animal with fresh open wounds after being in your collection for 5 days now with no attempts to contact me until i responded to this fauna thread.
 
I was honestly looking for a CB, but I didn't see one at the show. I was actually going to walk away from the deal, but he said that it had been treated already for parasites.
 
Mike, as I said in my original post, the email receipt I was sent had no contact information. I hunted a thread talking about Ray Morrow down and sent a private message to Ray's account the day I noticed the RI.

Here is a screencap of the receipt showing that there is no contact information.
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I was not given a business card or anything else. So contact was not difficult to begin with.


I was not told to treat for any parasites. You can insist that all you want, but I checked with my wife and she as well remembers that you said you already had treated the snake and confirms that you said nothing about needing to treat for parasites.
 
Two things. One, Rays name is the only price of information about the seller on the receipt. Two, I don't know how to change the name of or delete a thread.
 
Oxyrhynchus said:
Two things. One, Rays name is the only price of information about the seller on the receipt. Two, I don't know how to change the name of or delete a thread.
Click to expand...

You can't change the name or delete the thread. Maybe you should have read the rules before posting. This is going to be here from now on.
 
I never got a message from you i just found out about this thread while i was at work from a friend. The animal did not have a respiroty when i sold it. Have u seen a respiroty and are u a vet. The animal was treated for mites just like every animal i get in i have a strict policy on this. I also treat for mites after every show i do. Because as everyone knows shows are loaded with them so if you are saying u only found 1 mite its clearly not an infestation. Feel free to send me a message and i will give you my phone number
 
oh and thanks for saying the same thing on my good guy thread before contacting me i would have freely given you my phone number and contact info had you asked for it at the show. i would have like it if you would have actually contacted me before slandering me in 2 places on this page
 
Oxyrhynchus said:
I was not given a business card or anything else. So contact was not difficult to begin with.
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Nor did you ask. I had big signs on my table with my info on them.

Oxyrhynchus said:
I was not told to treat for any parasites. You can insist that all you want, but I checked with my wife and she as well remembers that you said you already had treated the snake and confirms that you said nothing about needing to treat for parasites.
Click to expand...

I tell everybody at shows when they ask about parasites on wildcaught animals "i treat every animal for parasites before i add it to my collection, regardless where it came from, especially wildcaught animals."

If you think me telling you how i take care of something means you should do the opposite, then its no wonder the animal is not doing well in your care. I sold you a healthy imported chondro that you examined in depth, and 5 days later I stumble across this post showing my animal with fresh wounds on its body, reports of mites and a respiratory infection... and now you are PMing me asking for a refund?

My guarantee (that you also didnt ask about) is that if you purchase an animal in person at a show then you have determined that the animal is worth the posted price. I dont offer 24 hour guarantees as some people do because then people leave their snake in the car while they eat burger king after the show and try to return a cooked snake to me. A lot can happen in 24 hours or 5 days in somebody elses care, including mites, wounds and respiratory issues.

If you were worried about the health of the animal you should have 1) not purchased it, 2) asked me about my refund policy, or 3) maybe asked for some contact info on the person you just bought a $275 imported animal from.

But since you didnt do any of these things, I maintain that the animal was in good condition when it was sold and this is evidenced by the fact that you bought it after examining it at the show.

Thanks for the bad guy thread on my friend who ran your card, and please dont buy anything from me in the future if this is the way things are going to pan out
 
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