Bad Guy Bad Guy East_Coast aka Peter Jolles

[Pudgsr]

I bought 40 juvi and two were adult Leopard Geckos from Peter. I got the box and going through the geckos two of them were in cough syrups containers or (What he calls it little milk containers) u never put geckos in a bottle or anything like that. When i took out the geckos to take pictures of them i noticed some of them had bad legs and legs wouldn't move well. This was showing signs of lack of calcium and nutrients. Some of the geckos like 5 or 6 were in small little 4 by 4 rubbermaid containers. They were over packed and no packing was put into some of the containers-some had moss and some didn't. I contacted Peter about this issue and he said none of these geckos had any issues and wanted to clear the situation up. He wants me to apologize for being mean to him on these issues. I never cussed at him or anything like that. I do want to say he was going possibly give me some money back but wanted be to say that was sorry for the way i talked to him. I told him that if you got back animals or packing wrong would u back down and i told him no im not apologizing -i didn't do anything wrong. So this one guy u do not want to deal with. I have been dealing with Leopard geckos for eight years now and have a lot of experience with conditions. End of story.

 

[East_Coast]

Of course there are two sides to every story.
I'll post all emails tonight.
For now, here is a picture of the box after I packaged all geckos.
Those are milk bottles...
This is ridiculous.

 

[ozz465]

might want to post actual proof b4 the BOI cops show up, ie emails ,pics and such.

 

[East_Coast]

I will post all emails tonight.

Pud or Jeff or whatever your name is: the claim that some containers had no packing in them is a lie.

 

[Pudgsr]

i took pics of the all the geckos but its hard to show which ones cant walk well and that need help. i have about 6 or seven emails. i really dont care what happens he isn't going to refund the money and thats why im going to stick to better people that i know. he can post the emails if he wants and i will respond but its going to get no where i already now this.

 

[Temporalis_Enterprises]

I have never bought from Peter, but I will say he is an awesome guy and our transaction was very professional and clean. All payments sent on time, and he was a great customer. It looks like his packing job was fine. I want to see pictures of the "weak" babies....

 

[Temporalis_Enterprises]

He bought animals from me, I wanted to add that.

 

[JColt]

Looks well packed and labeled properly. As far as walking, did you give them time to get settled in?

 

[Temporalis_Enterprises]

Yes, have you considered the fact that baby geckos stress a lot when shipped? I have seen baby geckos have issue walking a few hours after arriving. I always soak my animals when they arrive and usually after a quick soak, and then housed singly to reduce stress, they are fine the next morning.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Are there geckos in the screw top bottles in the bottom right hand corner?

I've never seen geckos packed in that type of thing before. I can't think that it would harm them, since I can see some packing material to cushion them, but I've never considered those for packing geckos.

Otherwise, it looks like a very well packed and cushioned box of geckos.

 

[FosterHerpetological]

That packing job looks excellent to me considering the number of geckos sent.

 

[East_Coast]

Email chronology

From start to finish.

Pud to me 8/11
what could u do for the leopard geckos u posted tonight for all of them shipped to 68164. thanks Pudsleopardgeckos.com

PJ(me) to Pud 8/11
Hi,
Thank you for your email.
I'll ship to 68164 for $65.
Buy two or more geckos and take 20% off the geckos (since I am going to list a lot lets start there because I won't be able to keep track. I woke up to a bunch of requests for these geckos this morning.)
Buy a bunch and I will reduce the cost a little more.
I will be listing geckos as I have the time (I have about 35 out of the egg so far... you are seeing a good sample of what I have already).
My paypal account is [email protected].
Thank you,
Peter Jolles

Pud to PJ 8/11
looking at geckos bx9-1749, bx9-1743, bx9-1737, bx8-1733, bx8-1725, bx8-1717, bx7-1706, bx6-1702, bx6-1695, bx5-1690, bx4-1679, bx3-1670, bx2-1661, bx1-1654, bx1-1649, I think these are all I see on fauna seeing what deal u can give me for them Peter. thanks Pud Pudsleopardgeckos.com

PJ to Pud 8/11
How about $300 shipped for all 15?
My paypal account is [email protected]
I can ship as soon as Monday.
Thank you,
Peter

Pud to PJ 8/11
money was sent to u. what shipping company do u use? and could u send me a tracking number? and this is overnight right? thanks Pud

PJ to Pud 8/11
Thanks
Yes, SYR - fedex priority overnight
I will send tracking info this weekend
Thank you!!!!
Peter Jolles

PJ to Pud 8/11
Pud,
Also - I have 5 - 15 more that are big enough to sell (i.e., not 4 gram day-old babies).
Are you interested? I can take pics.
Thanks,
Peter

Pud to PJ 8/12
yes send me pics of the ones you are talking about. Pud

PJ to Pud 8/12
Pud,
OK - I will try to get pics of them by Saturday night.
Thanks,
Peter Jolles

Pud to PJ 8/12
okay

PJ to Pud 8/12
Pud,
I really don't want to (but I will) take individual pics of more.
Here is an offer for you - I'll give you what I have left (20 or so geckos) for $10 each if you will let me just take pics of them in their bins / shoe boxes (overall pics).
These are 4 gram to 10/15 gram juvies that have hatched this summer.
A couple are probably "Mack Snow" but I am not a morph expert, a few are high yellow / normals; most are tangerines, hypo tangs, etc.
If you are interested in that I would take the pics tomorrow showing them.
Also - I would send them in a 16" x 12" x 12" box with 3/4" styrofoam and they would be packed properly.
Thanks,
Peter

Pud to PJ 8/12
so it would be an extra 200 shipped then for everything?? Pud

PJ to Pud 8/12
Yes, but let me get an actual count.
I'll get this done tomorrow.
There may be 18 more... there may be 27 more.... I need to actually do a count.
BUT - yes, you are correct: you have already paid for shipping.
Thanks,
Peter

PJ to Pud 8/13
Pud,

See below. bx17 and bx18 show pictures with geckos you have already bought and additional geckos.
bx17_1761 (file name) shows 3 additional female geckos (above what you already bought)
bx18_1762 shows 3 additional female geckos (above what you already bought)
bx10_1754 - 1 female
bx11_1755 - 1 male
bx12_1756 - 1 male
bx13_1757 - 1 female
bx14_1758 - 1 female
bx15_1759 - 4 females
bx16_1760 - 5 females
bx17_1761 - 3 addt'l females
bx18-1762 - 3 addt'l females
20 total --- $200
See also two 30 to 35 gram male SHTCT LG's. I'll give those to you for $50.
So, if you want all 20 of those geckos the price is $200.
If you want the two young adult male SHTCT's also the TOTAL price is $250.
Again, you have already covered shipping.
Thanks!
Peter
(Below are the photographs, all taken on August 13, 2011, that I attached to the email):

Pud to PJ 8/14
im going to paypal you 250 for all those geckos listed let me know when u are going to ship. thanks Jeff Pudsleopardgeckos.com

(Pud then paid $250 via Paypal)

PJ to Pud 8/14
Jeff,
Thanks. I intend to ship tomorrow. Are you able to receive on Tuesday?
Please advise.
Peter Jolles

Pud to PJ 8/14
yes Peter that will work with me. Pud

PJ to Pud 8/15
Packing up now.
FYI and before I forget; bx_1690 is a TSF and not a TSM.
Peter Jolles

PJ to Pud 8/15
Jeff,
Can you give me your phone number for the shipping label?
Thanks,
Peter

Pud to PJ 8/15
its xxx-xxx-xxxx thanks Jeff

PJ to Pud 8/15
Jeff,
I will drop them off shortly.
FYI - I added two to the order --- you will receive 39 total.
All containers are labeled. TSM's and confirmed males are in individual containers.
Thanks!
Peter

Pud to PJ 8/15
thanks Peter I will let u know when I get them Pud.

PJ to Pud 8/15
Jeff,
I am emailing to check and see if everything is OK?
Thanks,
Peter

Pud to PJ 8/16
Jeff,

I am extremely surprised to get this email.

I did not see any issues with those geckos. They all had a hide box with damp spaghum moss in each enclosure.

Since none ever died on me when I had them I don't understand how they could be on death's door now.
Additionally, those geckos, all of them, were fed on mealworms, superworms, and dubia roaches that were in turn fed on fresh vegetables (all different kinds) from a home garden.
Occasionally I bought crickets and dusted them - so I am not of the opinion that they were lacking nutritionally.
Finally, since I saw all of them moving in their cages and eating I don't know what to say about them "not able to move their legs".
Regarding them being "cramped"; I think they were packed properly.

Peter Jolles

PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,

I just got the message you left a few minutes ago.

Let me start by asking you this: what would make you happy with our transaction?

Thanks,

Peter Jolles

Pud to PJ 8/16
first to talk to me on the phone and then go from their Jeff

PJ to Pud 8/16
Jeff,

I am sorry - I am busy at night with my family.
I think I am an hour or so ahead of you time-wise and I am in bed now.

Also, given the nature of the BOI, etc - I would prefer to handle this with written communication.

I don't intend to take all your money and hide: what will make you happy with our transaction?
We made the whole deal by email and I believe you had a photo of each gecko - I did not see any stiff-legged geckos and I did not notice any missing toes.
Honestly.

At this point you are not happy. Let me know what will make you walk away feeling, "Peter treated me OK?"
I have some ideas but I want to know what you want.

Peter Jolles

Pud to PJ 8/16 8/16
im going to try to feed them tonight and give them calcium through a tube since of the geckos bones are way to weak to walk. I want to see what happens but im thinking about some money refunded back to me. Especially u don’t put animals in cough syrup or whatever two containers u used. That was stupid and putting to many geckos in a tub that small is bad for the geckos and not humane. It seems like u didn’t even care about them even though your posts made it seem otherwise. I will see how many geckos are sick and let u know and figure out a total from their. Jeff

PJ to Pud 8/17
Jeff,

Those were not cough syrup bottles they were empty milk bottles.
I would think anyone who is not "stupid" (which you have called me twice now) would know this simply due to the fact that they were easy to twist open.
Whose the dumbass now?

The geckos were packed properly.

Watch your attitude and stop with the personal attacks.

Peter Jolles

Pud to PJ 8/17
I don’t care if they were milk bottles or syrup bottles u never ship animals in containers like that. U don’t know how to package properly and im wanting $150 back for the trouble of these geckos and some which I know that they will die. I have already been in contact with some high end breeders that know me well and will vouch for me on anything. Your geckos are pretty much worthless and will post this all on fauna too!!! That u are not a good person to deal with. Very bad animals and bad packing. I need to see that money into my paypal account within 48 hours or more action will be done. Jeff

PJ to Pud 8/17
Jeff,

Thank you for your email.

Kindly send me a request for a refund in a polite tone and I will consider your request.

Thank you,
Peter

Pud to PJ 8/17
no Im not backing down from my tone I guess u will be posted on fauna then. And its not like I was cussing you out or anything like that. You sold me bad geckos and packaged them up wrong. END OF STORY Jeff

PJ to Pud 8/17
Jeff, or Pud, or whatever your name is -

I offered to work with you and make you happy. Immediately.

You responded with continued insults and nasty comments.

Do what you want at this point - I will not refund anything to anyone who talks to me like this.

I tried to make this right and you are being a DICK.

End of story.

- Peter

Pud to PJ 8/17
u would be upset to if someone sold u bad animals so the feeling is the same way. I want to know what nasty comments I made everything I said was truthfully and no lies, since u want to be that way I will contact and post negative feedback on fauna. Simple and done. Pud is my nickname which everyone calls me so u know so back off.


EMAILS COMPLETE.

The ending: Jeff bullied his way out of a refund.

 

[East_Coast]

Despite my best efforts, there are two errors in the chronology:
1. The last email listed for 8/15 is actually the first email sent on 8/16. It was my email to Jeff asking if he got them "ok".

2. Jeff's response to point 1 directly above was this (which I mistakenly left out of the above):
yea I got them the geckos were cramped. A lot of them can barely move their legs which is due to a lack of calcium for their bones in which u did not keep up. Some of them had missing toes. So overall im not happy with u at all. I know from experience some of these will die within the next few days. Jeff

 

[Temporalis_Enterprises]

I haven't seen any proof from "Pud" so I don't see how anything he says at this point is believable.....

 

[Lucille]

The buyer has claimed these lizards are practically on death's door but has not taken them to a vet. I'm no expert but the pictures seem fine.

"Your geckos are pretty much worthless and will post this all on fauna too!!! That u are not a good person to deal with. Very bad animals and bad packing. I need to see that money into my paypal account within 48 hours or more action will be done. Jeff"

You know, that doesn't sound like buyer's remorse, it sounds worse, like gold digging.
I think a bona fide vet report should have been sought before all this kerfluffle was started by this buyer. I hope one is forthcoming, if the buyer is concerned for the critters.

 

[JColt]

Well unless Peter sent different gecko's than the pics he posted, I'd say he did great from start to finish. Awesome price, kept in contact and delivered what he said he would. Why don't people give 24 hours before they freak? Then the guy says "what would make you happy?" I would have told him to give it a day. Juvi's need a bit of time to acclimate after a 1200 mile trip.

 

[KelliH]

i took pics of the all the geckos but its hard to show which ones cant walk well and that need help. i have about 6 or seven emails. i really dont care what happens he isn't going to refund the money and thats why im going to stick to better people that i know. he can post the emails if he wants and i will respond but its going to get no where i already now this.

MBD is easy to spot in a picture. Post pics of them.

So far Peter has been very professional IMO. He was wanting to work with you and make you feel satisfied with the deal but you continued being rude and name calling in your emails.

 

[reptilebaby]

So far I think he's been a pretty good guy. He did everything right. This might beanother case of an impossible to please customer.

Those geckos are beautiful, BTW. One reminds me of a boy I hatched out years ago. Came out of my very first egg too.

 

[Pudgsr]

i will get you pics all in doubt the pics of the issues. Having bought many geckos from 4 top breeders in the U.S. nothing like this has happened with bones and isn't from stress. Im trying to get them in individual containers and im going to take pics so u guys can see the issues of what im talking about. And also what bad language have i been using (none). These pics will be up tonight. Pud

 

[Pudgsr]

Reptilebaby u don't know anything i have bought over 120 leopard geckos from one guy here in the US and haven't had an issue so don't jump to thinking u know what u are talking about unless u do.