!!!BAD GUY!!!! Tampa Bay Exotics

[bigdogg]

See me and my brother are the owners of Pro Herps. We are from Maumee, Ohio and we bought these from Rick to resell kinda he is almost a wholesaler but not a big time. These are C.B. Babies from down in Tampa somewhere. I thank everyone for all the help they have gave me though. I just hope I can get them eating or something. So I don't lose out on my money. The whole reason I started this thread is the fact he wouldn't replace them. He expected me to tell him within a week which he just let me know a few days ago. So thanks you all for helping me out

 

[kmurphy]

!!!BAD GUY!!!! Tampa Bay Exotics

Now I also didn't mean to say he is a bad guy. Just couldn't edit it all after it was done. I am just warning people about the GTP from him.

Well, this points out why people should put a little more thought into how they head a BOI thread. Now the originator isn't sure if Tampa Bay Exotics are bad guys but the heading is there to stay.
In less than a month bigdogg has decided these snakes don't eat. Inexperience in my opinion. Do you think the snakes are going to starve in 3 weeks? I have had snakes that didn't eat for several months after I received them. I am going to blame the guy I bought them from? Unless they were sick, if the snake doesn't eat it is my fault - period.

 

[kmurphy]

I am (above) should be Am I.

 

[Ed Clark]

Very good point Dan, Shipping can shut down a strong feeder. and there is really nothing you can do about it other than wait it out!

It is very difficult to guarantee that an animal will eat once under the care of a different person. We’ve had healthy animals that will stop eating for not apparent reason only to resume several weeks later (although nothing had “apparently” changed in their environment). Subtle environmental changes may trigger a non-feeding mode. More drastic changes such of changing animals to a new environment or house can certainly result in a reptile going off-feed. All a seller can do is guarantee that the animal was feeding for him. This is fairly easy to verify by the buyer as depending on how long ago they were fed they will pass feces in their new location. Once the husbandry practices to which the animal will be subjected are out of his control IMO there’s no way he can guarantee a feeding response.

Regards

 

[bigdogg]

Well Like i said maybe I shouldn't have put Bad guy. But I have tried to feed them a week after I received them then said well let them sit in another week and tried again. But nothing. I am not inexpierence all that much. Yes these are some of the first GTP I ever got. They are also 8 weeks old and can't go too long with out food. They will die if they don't eat. Ask anyone. I am not trying to be mean but I guess it jsut all got out of proportion. I am sorry for the inconvience.

 

[Jim O]

So these were 5 week old GTP's when he shipped them?

 

[bigdogg]

not sure of exact age but i am guessing yes 5-7 week olds. This is what he told me when he shipped.

 

[Jim O]

That's kinda young for a chondro to be considered an established feeder even under the best of circumstances.

 

[bigdogg]

yeah well they said they had 3-4 meals in them. I said well it is not much but he guaranteed them eating.

 

[Jim O]

Reputable breeders will see to it that a chondro hatchling has more than that. Again, JMHO.

 

[bigdogg]

Yes I know this. I was suppose to get like 4 month old GTP instead of these but they sold out right before I put in my order.

 

[Chameleon Company]

While nothing is perfect, and no one expects a concept like the BOI to meet everyone's definition of fair, one glaring flaw that it does have is illustrated by this thread, as noted. It is that someone can be hasty with their thread starter, only to retract it all or in part later in the thread, maybe even made to eat some crow by post #20 or 30. BUT, the header still stands, and the only comfort for the overly accused defendant is that a minority of folks will read to post #20 or 30 and see that he.she is not bad ! The solution would lie in some way of Mods being able to edit the thread starter once its author makes a mea culpa. IMO, it is a glaring deficiency with this site, and all excuses that have been offered in the past for there not being a correction function are lame. Its do-able, and there is no excuse. In the meantime, with the new rules enforcement moderators, there should be a new infraction for a thread-starter being judged as lacking merit, and assessed a boatload of warning points. I can see it being the highest penalty here. The accuser in such situations should be seen in their header-info as being someone of diminished credibility here, with a basket over-flowing with warning points.

 

[Jim O]

Jim,

I'm not convinced the seller is not a bad guy. To bill baby GTP's as feeding after so few meals shows either incompetence or intent to deceive. Neither is very good in my opinion. He should take them back for a full refund under the circumstances and has not done so. To sell fragile chondro hatchlings that may need assist feedings to someone who is new to GTP's is plain irresponsible.

Of course I'd like to hear his side of it first before I make a firm judgment, but if the thread originator's postings hold up then the thread title might be justified.

 

[Chameleon Company]

To each his own, but the thread starter has admitted that he may have been hasty. We all have our opinions about selling more fragile animals, whether the seller needs to be held to a higher standard, or the buyer to more realistic expectations. I side with the seller in such matters, as I will always hold the buyer to a high standard of "buyer beware", and nothing beyond the TOS of the seller, or any modified agreement. In this case, an agreement before purchase that "If they don't eat for me by XXXX, I will get a refund". If nothing else, in cases such as this thread, I would encourage those that believe the buyer was hasty with the thread title to send some negative karma his way. Its a judgemental call, as it always is. But in this thread, there are far more opinions "pro" the accused and "con" the accuser. The thread seems as though it would have been better titled as a "warning" at best, according to most parties here. The people have spoken. Those pro the buyer can give him an "atta-boy" .... those con a "smackdown".

 

[bigdogg]

I can see if I have evidence as he is in hiding from me right now. I did a lot of this over the phone which was most likely why he said oh well can't do anything about it. I am not worried about my loss at all though. With baby season really close well ilt is actually starting already I will make my money back soon and hopefully get these eating with some of my GTP keeper and breeder friends soon. If worse comes to worse I will just give them to my breeder friend and have him see what he can do. I have tried everything in the book except force feeding which i really don't like to do unless it has to be done.

 

[bigdogg]

Your Right Jim I totally should have Put warning in the Thread Title.

 

[Jim O]

Jim,

Neither of us is sure what happened, but there is responsible behavior and there is irresponsible behavior. It's like selling a two week old puppy. It simply isn't ready to go. Neither is a chondro at that age. Those other "opinions" were rendered before it came out as to how young and how few meals the animals had had.

 

[Gary O]

OK guys. I never post a bad guy thread like this. But Hey I need all your opinions. I would like to think most of you here think of me as a upfront honest guy. You all know where I stand. I have an issue. I would like your opionion on.

Ok Rick of TB Exotics Became Friends with John my brother and co owner of Pro Herps. The name I sell under. Well Rick said hey we sell wholesale and we looked at the list. He had a great price on Brazilian Rainbow Baos(85.00) And CBB Aru Green Tree Pythons(175.00). Price is great and I was happy to pay the price.

Ok John asked this guy many times in chat and IMs if these were eating. Rick said YES unscented pinkies. I mean John asked many many times. I am HUGE on animals eating. Got the same answer. So we sent the money. Bought 3 GTPs and 2 BRBs. I get the animals in and I had one presold to a local customer and I gave it to him that day. MY FAULT I should have held onto it until I seen it feed. Well 2 did not eat the one the local customer has and the other I have. I sold one at Taylor show.( I sold on the word they were eating MY FAULT) I hope that one is eating I have not heard from the customer. But I am taking care of the customer that I sold to as it is only right. A CUSTOMER NEVER TAKES THE HIT FOR A FAULT OF MINE

John lets Rich know. They are not eating but hey we will give it some more time. This is about two weeks after we had them. After three weeks I am getting upset. My customer is being cool about it but he does not deserve it you know. SO John tells Rich about it. Here is what Rich offered to do.

I had to buy 5 Brazilian Rainbows. He would add one more and he would pay shipping if I sent the 2 GTP back. So he wanted to give me a 85 dollar credit for 350 bucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said HELL NO!

Ok that ended the talk a few days.

I made a chat on my site TRR. You all know the site so no need to link it untill I show you the thread later I made. But I made a chat. I also host sites and I gave a client a chat room. and also a room for my hosting. This upset him as John went to TB chat and told his friends hey I got a chat. He told maybe 5 6 people. BUT Rich told my brother John to do it to Reptile Chat so TB got memebrs. And John did tell people about TB. That was ok to do to RC SO I thought no big deal this is not a contest you know this is the best damn hobby around. So Rich is going off on John in his CHat. Yeah John still went there to use the chat he liked it there. I went in and said hey we have bigger issues then a chat bro. When I brought up the GTP. He basicly told me F off. I said bro you said UNscented picks and I have trade scented to everything I can think of. I am not even close to being new to this hobby as you all know. He banned me from the chat. He says for spamming but I NEVER SPAMMED. I never use chats untill TB and I use to go often and hang out. But he was quick to ban me when it came to talking to me about the GTP not eating. OH They are about 8 weeks old.

I kept everything quite untill this point. No need to make waves you know but this pushed me to make this thread on TRR

http://thereptileroom.org/forum/ind...showtopic=10117

( I am not advertising lol. Just showing all the stuff I did)

I was upset that he would not work this out. If he would have just talked to me I would have been cool you know.


SO I make the thread. Then I was done. I said to myself sad that this happened but lucky it was only 350 and hey I can get these things to eat. I am more upset at myself for selling on his word and giving a customer of mine an animal not eating. MY FAULT. Everyone has emailed me and said it was BS but I said guys oh well let it go. But here is the kicker MY brother gets these emails today to his business email He forwarded them to me. This is PURE BS and I hope it is a threat. Internet threats like this is BS and I can not believe he would do this. I paid him in FULL. I got the animals not eating. And I am the bad guy?

Here are the emails

I am editing only the cussing. As there is no need for you all to have to read that.


#1

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:04:48 -0500 [11:04:48 PM EST]
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fwd: Hi John Guess what, and ******* tell Gary
Headers: Show All Headers


----- Forwarded message from [email protected] -----
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:24:51 -0500
From: Rick Leverock <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Rick Leverock <[email protected]>
Subject: Hi John Guess what, and ******* tell Gary
To: [email protected]

Its a shame you and gary want to go around bashing. You do realize now, if
you want to place bashing in place, well a customized website is going up on
you and gary boa talk and TRR and will be placed on top of Yahoo. I was
willing to work the one GTP out but I guess I can utilize the money now to
do you that favor and place your new free website on top of Yahoo search
engines so fuck you, that 180 dollars you so called lost will go torwards
that. Its funny how you all don't say you were banned for your stupidity of
spamming on pm when you know you we were in full support of your sites. Its
ok that 180 now will be held against you plus some, enjoy the GTP and you
will see your negative website up soon on top of yahoo. Thank You

__________________________________________________ _______________
#2

----- Forwarded message from [email protected] -----
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:27:19 -0500
From: Rick Leverock <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Rick Leverock <[email protected]>
Subject: So much fun, your new bashing negative website is looking good for boa talk/trr
To: [email protected]

Shame I landed the contract with Yahoo for the other website in which is on
top of the net right now, the contract saves me so much money and your 180
dollars will go a long way placing your new bashing website on top of yahoo
against TRR and Boa talk, hell I don't have to go through forums, the whole
reptile community from all forums will see this. Your pract. freedom of
speach on a low level compared to what you will be faced with soon. The
website is looking very ******* good asshole.

__________________________________________________ _______________

#3

----- Forwarded message from [email protected] -----
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:30:58 -0500
From: Rick Leverock <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Rick Leverock <[email protected]>
Subject: Done deal buddy, yes your website is 3/4 the way done
To: [email protected]

Yes we will you ****** yourself *****, as of Monday my buddy Dan will be
notified


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ok now I do not know what he means by his buddy Dan will be notified. But you tell me guys what Did we do wrong.

1) He says he has these animals

2) We ask if all are eating he says YEP YEP YEP eating nonscented pinkies and also said 3 to 4 meals in them

3) We send money

4) We get animals

5) The Brazilians are great. Eating and beautiful. I really mean they looked great. GTP looked good too. We tell them order came in great.

6) We tell him about the GTP not eating he says hey we will take care of it if they do not eat. I tell my costumer here try a few tricks. and i told him what to try. ANd I told him if it will not eat with in the 3rd week I will replace or give a 100% refund.

7) week three is here I am refunding my costumer. It is only right of me to do that. I would nto leave a customer hanging. Not like me. John contacts Rich. Rich offers the one BRB.

8) I tell John to drop it and move one. Then the BS abotu a fricken chat starts. I tell Rich I have bigger issues then a chat. he goes off and bans me. I never even use the PM thing on the chat. I think the only time I did was to talk to RICH lmao. I never spammed on his site. NEVER!

9) I am heated and make post on my site. I feel better by letting it out and to be honest i never bashed him just said what happened. And we get these threats. Funny huh?

Tell me guys. I want everyones opinions. Am i in the wrong? I am not worried about the websites he says he is doing. But the last email about telling a Dan. WTF. WOuld you say threat? I am taking it that way. Sad sad day when a person is stubbed on some animals and the person who did the stubbing is trying to do more.

Help me out guys.

Also this is the only reply my Brother sent to him and it has the email he replied to in it so you know. I just want everything on the table guys. You know I am very upfront.

----- Forwarded message from [email protected] -----
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:26:52 -0500
From: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hi John Guess what, and F****** tell Gary
To: Rick Leverock <[email protected]>

GO ahead do what you want. We are just notifying people. I said to my
4-5 friends about our chat. I said it in private which usually means
PRIVATE. If I ever saw you on I would have invited you too but now
that you want to go threatning cause you are such a better person then
us go ahead people know our stuff is not junk. As we take care of
every customer that we have. I don't care if they had the snake for 3
months and it up and died or stopped eating I would resolve the issue.
But do what you want and I will tell Gary. We will see who comes out
on top.

Quoting Rick Leverock <[email protected]>:


[Hide Quoted Text]
Its a shame you and gary want to go around bashing. You do realize now,
if you want to place bashing in place, well a customized website is
going up on you and gary boa talk and TRR and will be placed on top of
Yahoo. I was willing to work the one GTP out but I guess I can utilize
the money now to do you that favor and place your new free website on
top of Yahoo search engines so fuck you, that 180 dollars you so called
lost will go torwards that. Its funny how you all don't say you were
banned for your stupidity of spamming on pm when you know you we were
in full support of your sites. Its ok that 180 now will be held against
you plus some, enjoy the GTP and you will see your negative website up
soon on top of yahoo. Thank You


Thanks for any and all opinions and comments. I have delt with a lot of things but this. Come on
__________________________________________________ _______________

 

[Gary O]

Sorry I started another thread about this too. Stupid me did not see it. I was cool untill the emails.

 

[Jim O]

The plot thickens....