chainsaw said:
here are some links to a study that kind of goes against what you say is certain, it highlights a snakes ability to associate and learn. Dan M.
http://www.rochester.edu/pr/releases/bcs/snake.htm
http://www.lasuerte.org/omesnakes.html
That doesn't go against what I said at all... and you're clearly not comprehending what I am trying to say.
They can reccognize patterns and form associations with behaviors that have an instinctive basis and a specific and clear positive result directly through their own actions. Bin opens, food shows up, bin opens, food shows up, bin opens, food shows up... Bin opens, the snake is looking for food. An association with an instinctive behavior that is already present. The two links to the same study you posted- the animals are instinctually looking to hide, the individual conducting the study provided a visual and tactile association with a hiding spot, repeat for an undisclosed number of times and you get reccognition. That's an association.
Your specific suggestion was to allow the snake to continue to make defensive strikes that landed because you believed that the behavior would be reinforced if you "let them have their own way" and that the behavior would be countermanded if the defensive strikes were unsuccessful in driving off the percieved predator. Thr problem is that the instinctive response is *already* to strike, that's the default state when confronted with a threatening stimulus, it can't become reinforced because it already exists as one of two very limited options. In order for it to be shown not to work despite strikes landing, the snake would have to be able to comprehend the consequences of it's behaviors on the behavior of another organism and they simply haven't got the ability to think that well. No association can be formed because the fidelity of the action cannot be understood.
I'm going to provide you with three far more likely reasons why you have seen a charge when using this... strategy... and chances are very good that all three have had parts to play in what you percieved to be a result of your "let it keep biting" theory.
First and foremost, we as people CAN judge the likely consequences of our actions, we can think of possibilities and change our behavior without the need for constant repetition before becoming successful. We do it constantly, both consciously and subconsciously and we adapt very readily in a very short time frame to situations. When our behavior provokes a defensive response in an animal, we end up percieving a lot more than we may realize... our body language and approach, small details about their responses, huge amounts of information and detail. When we go to approcah the animal again, adjustments are made in the stimulus WE provide, which in turn changes the response evoked from the animal we're interacting with. We learn them, they don't learn us. When we change our approaches, we change their responses but when we go to think about the differences, some shortsighted people only see the change in the animal's response, not their own behavior.
The second would be the way many species will have instinctive responses that change as they get older or are confronted with changing environments. Neonates often see a different set of prey species and a different set of potential predators, different behaviors are going to be more successful for the survival of the individual animal and as they age, those behaviors shift. It's genetic and instinctive so our captive animals will have behaviors that are intended to be a response to a predator species that doesn't exist within hundred or even thousands of miles. "I let it bite me for a year and then it calmed down" will often have a strong basis in the animal's behaviors changing as it ages. fewer predators or predator species for which a different response is appropriate... many animals will show a weaker defensive response as they age. Some species it's the opposite and some have no real discernable difference, it all comes down to what's appropriate to the things eating them in the wild. Add to that the animal's comfort within it's environment. When it's been in the same enclosure with the same hide and the same events going on outside of the enclosure for a period of time, it's going to be less inclined to display a defensive response as quickly. The stimulus that it percieves as a threat worthy of those striking responses becomes narrower when it has hiding as an option or when some of the secondary stimulus are no longer threatening. These are those "I got this snake and it was real nippy but I had it for X weeks and handled it and let it bite me (like a dumbass) and it calmed down." situations, the person percieves their poking it over and over as being a catalyst for the changes they have seen when it's far more likely that the animal is just settling into it's environment. This is also why you'll see some people reporting behavioral changes right after switching enclosures.
The third factor, which goes in both directions although not equally is general stress. Environmental stress usually lessens as the animal becomes familiar with it's environment. Settles down after shipping or working or the sensory bombardment of a pet shop or a show... The flipside to that though is that too much stress, overstressing, can push the animal right out the other side of that defensive behavior and result in them shutting off almost. That's usually coupled with things like dehydration or a poor caloric intake. This is also a very large and very negative aspect of your "Let them bite you so they see you're not scared" tactic. You keep interacting with them when they're stressed and defensive and don't allow them to escape the stimulus, you're basically breaking their behavior. And by breaking, I mean smashing and destroying in the least desireable way possible. Stressing an animal out until it simply stops responsing will make it quit biting... but it's not good for them by any means and only a real boneheaded jackass would suggest it in a positive manner.
The giant boids are all a bit defensive as neonates and juveniles- they have predators at those sizes and their response to threatening stimulus reflects that. People who know the animals know the approaches that are the least likely to provoke those responses and their animals can generally be handled with no real difficulties. The adults vary a great deal in what sort of response is appropriate to various stimulus. They're all apex predators in their environments, with nothing real inclined to eat them at full growth. Burms tend to be fairly mellow in response to anything that doesn't smell like food. 'tics are a lot more arboreally inclined and tend to be quicker to strike at a wider variety of stimulus, but a keeper who knows the species learns to avoid triggering those responses. African rocks come from an environment that is chock full of non-prey species that can step on and injure or kill them, they remain more defensive as adults as a result. Anacondas being largely aquatic are in the same situation as the 'tics, only more so- they exist in an environment where sensory imput is made lesser and they grab while the grabbing is good at just about anything that registers, which can also be avoided to some degree by an astute and experienced handler, but they have a reputation and they deserve it. Scrubs are even more arboreal than the 'tics and basically behave like giant chondros. The behaviors of snakes are not a conscious choice on their part, it's instinct modified very very slightly where an overt association can be made by pattern recognition. When confronted with 100% identical stimulus and a clear trigger, a wild individual will respond the same way as a captive individual (with an obvious allowance for the potential subtle changes inherent in genetic drift, the more closely related, the more aligned the behaviors would be).
Letting the animal in question repeatedly strike won't act as a catalyst for behavioral change in a positive way. Getting to know the species, allowing them time to settle in and sometimes just letting them get past their pissy juvenile stage are the avenues that should be explored.
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