Inquiry BallBids.com?

[snakesRkewl]

Hi everyone!
Please allow me to copy-paste my previous response from Ball-pythons.net

Please allow me to copy and paste my response on BP.net...

You guys are just not right, not in your ethics, not in your business model, not in your care of these awesome animals and certainly not in your lies and deceptions.

So many noobie mistakes it's pathetic, these are live animals and it's our hobby your toying with, yet you expect us to understand

Sorry, your barking up the wrong tree

 

[Shadera]

This is "leveling the playing field" as you guys put it on your Facebook page? It's clear that neither one of you has any understanding of the game.

Those people have to ask for those bids to be refunded? Honey, you should be falling all over yourselves to spark up some semblance of veracity and refund without having to be asked. But then again, it's clear to anyone willing to look deeper than the surface, that you have no intention of doing what's right to begin with.

It's not about the love of the animals when you pull in a guy to act as a frontman, who has no clue about the animals being worked with. It's a money grab, nothing more.

 

[aviBallBids]

Please allow me to copy and paste my response on BP.net...

You guys are just not right, not in your ethics, not in your business model, not in your care of these awesome animals and certainly not in your lies and deceptions.

So many noobie mistakes it's pathetic, these are live animals and it's our hobby your toying with, yet you expect us to understand

Sorry, your barking up the wrong tree

Hi snakesRkewl!

We realize that there is nothing we can do or say to ease every person's fears. The best we can do is admit our faults where admission is due, and make changes to our service and guarantees as promised.

This is "leveling the playing field" as you guys put it on your Facebook page? It's clear that neither one of you has any understanding of the game.

Those people have to ask for those bids to be refunded? Honey, you should be falling all over yourselves to spark up some semblance of veracity and refund without having to be asked. But then again, it's clear to anyone willing to look deeper than the surface, that you have no intention of doing what's right to begin with.

It's not about the love of the animals when you pull in a guy to act as a frontman, who has no clue about the animals being worked with. It's a money grab, nothing more.

Hi again!

Most bids were refunded with the click of a button, but several members were experiencing issues with their bid balances, so they were credited again manually. It may or may not have had something to do with the downtime we experienced earlier.

Also, responding to emails, live support calls, phone calls, forum posts, and Facebook posts is a whole lot of work for two people to accomplish, but we manage to do it. The only difference is that i type much faster than Zack, so I will more than likely beat him to the punch.

Thank you!

-Avi =)

 

[rabernet]

Hi redhood23!

We haven't had any refund requests as of yet, but if that were the case then the answer would most certainly be yes. I made sure that the 5 free bids that were given upon registering were also credited back.

-Avi =)

Actually, several people asked about refunds on your Facebook page.

 

[Lucille]

We realize that there is nothing we can do or say to ease every person's fears. The best we can do is admit our faults where admission is due, and make changes to our service and guarantees as promised.

I had hoped that the lie-based banners would have been pulled as I suggested. Unfortunately, I just now saw the same banner ad, picturing snakes showing 'sold' for too-good-to-be-true prices.


I think that many businesses are wildly successful based on people's hopes and dreams, especially in this economy, for a windfall, a little good fortune. The ponzi schemes, and other scams built by businesses a lot bigger than this one, succeeded because people wanted to believe they could get something for nothing.
Right now, many people have next to nothing through no fault of their own, and glossy false ads that are made to prey on their hopes are sadly working all too well.

When the businesses inevitably crumbled, they hurt the little people, the people who believed in the magic that for a few pennies they could somehow have riches beyond their dreams.

I personally think that to build a quality collection one has to buy quality stock from reputable breeders. Quality is expensive, the breeders often take many years for projects, all the while feeding and housing their stock. There are few short cuts.

One could say that all this is entertainment and gambling. I gamble, I buy lottery tickets from time to time, it is a harmless pastime.

But there are no live critters involved. Here, there are troubling questions involving shipping and quarantine. It is not all innocent pastime when the life of critters are involved.

As has been said earlier, many will not choose to believe the glib assurances of a business launched on lies.

I fervidly, genuinely hope that for all of you, the New Year brings prosperity. We are all sick and tired of scraping pennies together in this faltering economy.
But for now, if you have a few pennies, you might want to think twice before giving them to Ballbids.

 

[Ace of Snakes]

Just posted on Mike Wilbanks FB page that I do not support this or him being apart of it.

 

[JudyC]

Just posted on Mike Wilbanks FB page that I do not support this or him being apart of it.

Have you not read any of this? He is NOT "apart of it." Mike Wilbanks just happened to have a customer come along and buy some snakes from him. He has nothing to do with what his customers decide to do with the animals after having purchased them. It's not his fault these guys decided to drop his name into their mess.

 

[Ace of Snakes]

Also just found out, Zack Byers is related to who? Jeff Byers, who does Jeff work for?...Bob Clark Reptiles, who is Bob Clark best buds with almost business partners?..Mike Wilbanks, where did that Butter for auction come from?...Constrictors Unlimited, who owns them?...Mike Wilbanks. Can you follow the bread crumbs to the pile of caca? There is more to this than two kids, this is scam all the way from A to Z. I'm sure Bob and Mike will give away a few snakes to get the ball rolling, give away a snake now and then, but 99% of this site and it's actions will be a scam with likely no snake or winner in sight, other than the site owners!

They simply took Ben's concept to another level and IMO perfected the art and scam!

 

[Ace of Snakes]

Here's what I feel like is really going on:

1. The site appears to have been thrown together by somebody with very little patience, let alone knowledge regarding marketing or website construction. The odds that the person behind the site will pay any attention to the health of the animals or the satisfaction of the customer are slim to none.

2. If the website creator really cared about anything other than making a quick buck, more attention would have been paid to details like how the timer would behave, whether the website would be able to handle the traffic, and whether the terms of service were written by Best Buy. Once the money is in his pocket, he's going to be gone.

3. The site is likely set up in such a way that the timer will repeatedly reset if a certain profit has not been attained. To bidders watching the auction, it would appear as though other users are bidding, causing the timer to reset. This process would continue until a certain amount of money has been accrued. I highly doubt that it's an accident, or the fault of the 'server'. It's probably intentional, and extremely sloppy programming.

So in conclusion, I am absolutely not going to give this person any of my money. The fact that one individual person might get away with a morph for pennies on the dollar does not justify the means that it took to make it happen. IF anybody gets the snake cheap, it means that hundreds of others spent heaps of money in exchange for NOTHING. Hundreds of people get ripped off while one person is pleased with themselves for being a jackass and lining the pockets of a scumbag. In the meantime we are COLLECTIVELY shat on. The whole community.

It DOES matter to me that his practices are impatient, sloppy, underhanded and dishonest. I do not want somebody like this to make any money at the expense of weak-willed people and innocent animals.

 

[Will0W783]

Apparently they didn't actually choose a winner last night. So the poor guy who thought he'd won now is out a snake. They are stating on their Facebook page that not only are they relisting the female butter from yesterday but they are also listing another morph. I did get recredited my free bids, but it's really crappy that someone thought they had won a snake and actually didn't.

 

[Focal]

Apparently they didn't actually choose a winner last night. So the poor guy who thought he'd won now is out a snake. They are stating on their Facebook page that not only are they relisting the female butter from yesterday but they are also listing another morph. I did get recredited my free bids, but it's really crappy that someone thought they had won a snake and actually didn't.

Just my opinion, I think the idea flopped on them yesterday with the rise of all these threads. I imagine not many people are confident in this process and from what I have gathered, most people that are bidding are using free bids. In return, the auction wasn't getting high enough to make money and no one was bidding with actual cash. This would have resulted in a loss on their part, thus the "crash." I personally would not deal with a business that is willing to reap the benefits of the losses of so many people, while not taking one on their own. Had they followed through with yesterday's auction, they probably would have had an accurate sale price on their fraudulent ad.

 

[radera5]

This idea could more than work. It is Quibids to a T.

The problem here is lying to begin with, having a total joke of a TOS, and having one of a two man crew who knows nothing about the species itself.

If this was someone legit...AND you like to gamble, this would be a great service.
Unfortunately for these gentleman, they blew it before it ever started.

 

[Lucille]

Apparently they didn't actually choose a winner last night. So the poor guy who thought he'd won now is out a snake.

That is outrageous.

I SO wish he would show up here, so we could collectively give him ideas on how to respond and who to go to. Besides the AG, there are plenty of others who oversee and regulate auctions and business, and I'd make SURE all of them heard the names of Ballbids and the two guys running it.

For any of y'all that have anything to do with reptile publications, radio, etc., I think that it would be worthwhile to do a story about penny auctions in general and this one in particular.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

@Ace of Snakes, you'll need to go use your original account

 

[Cat_72]

My "opinion" may not fit in with the popular voice here...and I am not necessarily saying that I am supporting these guys (especially since I admittedly am out of the loop with people's prior experiences with one of the site's "admin"). And I hope you all remember my thoughts and feelings toward others who have been purposeful "market crashers" as such, i.e. MKR, and keep those in mind.

I really don't believe these guys started all of this with any intention of "scamming" anyone. I think they did indeed see money to be made, and rushed into many aspects of what they are doing, without enough thought into the ins and outs (and emotions) involved when you are dealing with living, breathing animals. They followed the model of these other "penny auctions" to a T, thinking that they had all of their bases covered...which obviously they didn't. And the herp community is certainly letting them know this. I think they got in over their heads, not expecting everything (good and bad) to blow up so quickly.

They appear to be trying to make it all right...they are amending their TOS, refunding bids, calmly answering posts, etc...that's more than many a "scammer" outed here has done. Were they truly out to simply scam folks, I don't think they would be making such an effort.

I DO think that they are reducing these live animals much more to simple dollars and cents and purely a business venture than most people like, however...and this is where all of the emotion and accusations are coming from. Of course, the quarantine and shipping concerns are still VERY valid concerns....again, something I don't think these guys thought through nearly enough. If they are going to continue, we can all hope that they get it sorted out...perhaps we could collectively offer them advice on the best way to go about this instead of just yelling at them about not doing it properly?

To reiterate, I am NOT saying that I really agree with this whole idea...but I don't think they are out to "scam" anyone (at least not any more than ANY of the "penny auctions")...and I feel in this day and age it was bound to happen eventually. Where there are high dollar ANYTHINGs, someone is going to see it and act on it. I am not by any means suggesting that everyone should accept and support it all, but perhaps by offering some constructive criticism as to how to make it better for the ANIMALS...we could ALL feel a little better about it.

Of course, I could be totally wrong...which has been known to happen (I bought from TSE back in the day lol)...in which case I will gladly eat the crow that I am sure will be happily served to me, in multiple portions.

 

[Will0W783]

I didn't think that they were out to scam anyone either, but with the auction not actually completing yesterday, I'm not sure what to think. Regardless of the problems on their end, they should have given the "winner" his or her snake. The fact that they didn't and are relisting her (supposedly) makes me really uneasy.

 

[Cat_72]

I didn't think that they were out to scam anyone either, but with the auction not actually completing yesterday, I'm not sure what to think. Regardless of the problems on their end, they should have given the "winner" his or her snake. The fact that they didn't and are relisting her (supposedly) makes me really uneasy.

Yeah, I can see your point there. Admittedly, I have little knowledge of servers and all of that techno stuff...I wonder if indeed they CAN know exactly who won it if the server totally crashed? And I also question, if the server crashed BEFORE the time the auction was to actually end, would it be fair to others who would have still been bidding had they been able to...is it fair to them to simply call the last person who was able to get in a bid the winner?

I do think that, as long as they are actually refunding all of the bids as they say, that relisting her was probably the most "fair" option to all...who were bidding.

 

[Focal]

perhaps by offering some constructive criticism as to how to make it better for the ANIMALS...we could ALL feel a little better about it.

I think that's part of the reason many people are upset. They could have asked the community for advice about this before they even started. I'm getting mixed up between all the threads on all the forums, but somewhere someone linked a thread where the site owner was given advice on his husbandry and flipped out. I, honestly, would not offer advice since they don't appear receptive.

Members have given them advice on their TOS. Unchanged.

Members have given them advice on the phony ad. Unchanged.

I'm sorry I'm not trying to pick at you but I was thinking the same way when this started and not others, but these two guys themselves changed my opinion based on what they have posted. They are responding nicely, but we are getting politicians answer to these questions that are vague and contradictory to what is taking place.

 

[Cat_72]

I think that's part of the reason many people are upset. They could have asked the community for advice about this before they even started. I'm getting mixed up between all the threads on all the forums, but somewhere someone linked a thread where the site owner was given advice on his husbandry and flipped out. I, honestly, would not offer advice since they don't appear receptive.

Members have given them advice on their TOS. Unchanged.

Members have given them advice on the phony ad. Unchanged.

I'm sorry I'm not trying to pick at you but I was thinking the same way when this started and not others, but these two guys themselves changed my opinion based on what they have posted. They are responding nicely, but we are getting politicians answer to these questions that are vague and contradictory to what is taking place.

As I said...I have not seen some of the prior dealings with these guys...so I haven't seen the flipping out part, lol.

However, they HAVE totally changed several aspects of their TOS...there are a lot of changes, but the most notable parts:

THE PROVISIONS LISTED IN THIS SECTION, SECTION 15, SUPERCEDE ALL OTHER TERMS THAT WOULD NORMALLY CAUSE CONFLICT. WE GUARANTEE THAT ANY AND ALL LIVE ANIMALS YOU RECEIVE WILL ARIVE ALIVE, HEALTHY, AND AS DESCRIBED. THIS INCLUDES THE GENETIC COMPOSITION THAT WAS ADVERTISED ON THE AUCTION LISTING. IF FOR ANY REASON YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE ANIMAL YOU RECEIVE YOU MAY CONTACT US, WITHIN 7 DAYS, TO SCHEDULE A RETURN, AT WHICH POINT YOU WILL BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO SELECT ANOTHER ANIMAL OF YOUR CHOICE, AS LONG AS THAT ANIMAL IS OF EQUAL OR LESSER VALUE AS THE ANIMAL THAT WAS ORIGINALLY WON.

IN NO EVENT WILL BALLBIDS.COM BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF BALLBIDS.COM HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, BALLBIDS.COM 'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID BY YOU TO BALLBIDS.COM FOR BIDS IN THE 12-MONTH PERIOD PRECEDING THE EVENT THAT GAVE RISE TO THE LIABILITY. THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THIS LIMITATION OF LIABILITY IS THE COST OF A DEAD ANIMAL, WHICH WILL BE COVERED AT BALLBIDS.COM’S EXPENSE, OR THE SHIPMENT’SINSURER

Now, in the changes they made last night, they had said something about THEM paying for return shipping....however, that part seems to be gone now. Perhaps they should get everything in their TOS finalized before offering up any more auctions....

 

[bear]

if the site is ballbids.com it is down as of now.


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