Banded AnerC?

[Camby]

Got this guy from SM. He is from Don's hypo Miami line and is obviously banded and anerythristic, however, this line shouldn't throw aner corns.

I have a sibling female normal miami phase with the same "het" genes. We will see what happens in 2 years when I breed him to her and my Aner A and Aner B female. Hopefully the last clutches come out normals and the mating with his sibling throws hypo miamis, aners, some more bandeds and who knows what else. The greatest to me would be a Ghost Banded with the "new" trait.

Sorry to ramble, but hey I like him and wanted to share. Oh and I am not the best photographer so deal with it. No deragotory comments required on that subject. Hopefully the pictures work, again, this is my first attempt to post on this forum.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Z's (Anery C) came from Rich's Keys line (not Miami). It doesn't look like a Z to me, but I don't work with them at all, so hopefully Dean comes on here and gives you his opinion.

From SerpenCo:

History on Z's from SerpenCo:
http://www.serpenco.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=16563&cat=&page=

 

[Roy Munson]

Z's (Anery C) came from Rich's Keys line (not Miami). It doesn't look like a Z to me, but I don't work with them at all, so hopefully Dean comes on here and gives you his opinion.

Here I am, Steph.

I got the impression that Camby was unaware that AneryCs already existed, and that he was hopeful that he had a new anery gene. Unfortunately for him, it looks like AneryA to me, and it certainly doesn't look anything like an AneryC/Cinder/Ashy/"Z" morph.

AneryC yearling:

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Thanks for posting, Dean! I agree, it does look like a standard Anery to me as well.

 

[Camby]

Nah, I knew it wasn't a new Gene/Morph even IF it was/is AnerC, Z Corn, Cinder (depending on the name it goes by). However, I have never seen a banded aner before though. Also it doesn't look like Aner A in person, but I agree it doesn't look completely like Aner C either.

Here is the Scoop on mine. As stated above, it came from South Mountain. Don had produced two malesseveral years back from his hypo miami line. Per Don he never has had Aner A in this line period and never produced any Aner A's from it. He sent some animals to Carol Huddleson (sp?). She bred one of those to one of Rich's animals and viola, she got an AnerC. She chalked it up to Rich's animal having the trait. Don thought about it after talking with Carol, then bred one of the odd looking males he kept to a sibling and what I posted is from thier first production. Don got 2 others I think so you tell me? Also, I hope I got the whole story right here, but I am pretty sure I relayed it correctly.

So, no Aner A's (or B for that matter) have come from his hypo line since he started it in 1989, so what is this guy then? I do plan on breeding to my other Aner lines as Rich did to prove it out, if it throws aners, then oh well, I have a really cool banded aner, but if it doesn't, then I guess we need to cross it to one of Rich's AnerC corns.

Again, I know it isn't a new morph (unless it proves unrelated to the other 3 out there, I was just sharing the photo. However, if it proves related to Aner C, that line IS fairly new correct?

dc

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Your best bet is to post this on cornsnakes.com where you can get a variety of opinion. Though I have a strong feeling that you're going to get the exact same answers. Hopefully someone can also dig out the original thread when Carol first posted about her Z's.

Although Rich does have the history of Z's posted on his web site which I linked in post #2:

This genetic line came from a single animal that I got from a guy and his son who were at the ONLY Birmingham show we have ever attended. This was 1996, I believe. He said he lived in the keys and was visiting the area, had a gravid female corn he said came from the keys and wanted to trade me one of our leopard geckos for it. It was an interesting looking enough corn snake that I accepted the trade.

That animal was gravid and laid a clutch of eggs that season, but I do not think I kept any of them. I had wanted to breed hypomelanism into the Keys line, so the next season, I bred her with one of my hypos. And, of course, kept some of the babies back from that project.

Of course, I didn't breed one of those sons back to her for a few years as they grew and matured, but I don't recall what I bred her with in the interim. So figuring it was probably two or three years later before breeding back one of her sons to her. The hypos that came from breeding the het hypos together were nothing special, so I was about ready to call that project a complete bust. Just happened to have a couple of her sons around, and didn't have anything else special that I wanted to breed the original female with. So what the heck, I bred one of her son's back to her. That's when those first "anerythristic" looking animals appeared. Serendipity at work, yet again. And of course, I had already sold off most of those het hypos (likely carrying this new gene as well) along the line....

At the time, they looked more like Charcoals than anything else, but there was a slight difference to them that became more pronounced with age. And as it turned out, subsequent test breedings proved them to NOT be Charcoal nor 'A' Anerythrism at all. Well that's just ducky! Just what we need, another anerythristic looking gene........

And for the record, I have heard there are some people who believe this line is a hybrid of some sort, regardless of any evidence to back up that claim. But lately this seems to be the battle cry for quite a few people when something new arises genetically in the corn snakes, it seems. Personally, I don't believe it for an instant, if for no other reason than the argument FOR it being a hybrid just doesn't hold water.

 

[Roy Munson]

Nah, I knew it wasn't a new Gene/Morph even IF it was/is AnerC, Z Corn, Cinder (depending on the name it goes by). However, I have never seen a banded aner before though. Also it doesn't look like Aner A in person, but I agree it doesn't look completely like Aner C either.

That Anery doesn't look all that banded to me, and banding isn't a characteristic inherent to any of the AneryCs or hets that I own or have seen. In the photo, that snake looks exactly like an AneryA to me. They're highly variable. I guess it could be a very dark Hypo-AneryA (ghost). It is definitely not an AneryB/charcoal or AneryC/cinder/ashy.

Here is the Scoop on mine. As stated above, it came from South Mountain. Don had produced two malesseveral years back from his hypo miami line. Per Don he never has had Aner A in this line period and never produced any Aner A's from it. He sent some animals to Carol Huddleson (sp?). She bred one of those to one of Rich's animals and viola, she got an AnerC. She chalked it up to Rich's animal having the trait. Don thought about it after talking with Carol, then bred one of the odd looking males he kept to a sibling and what I posted is from thier first production. Don got 2 others I think so you tell me? Also, I hope I got the whole story right here, but I am pretty sure I relayed it correctly.

Stephanie has already posted Rich's side of the AneryC story. Don's Hypo-Miami was the GRANDFATHER of Carol Huddleston's first AneryCs. The grandmother was a cross of an Upper Keys and a Hypo from Rich Z.. I've never seen it claimed by Don, Carol, or anyone that Don's animal supplied an AneryC gene to the mix. Doesn't mean it didn't, but I've never seen it claimed. Here is the first thread Carol ever posted about hers. Page 2 contains the relevant history I'm referencing:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15977&highlight=mahogany&page=2

Rich makes some contributions to that thread as well.

I don't know how old your snake is, but I think that by 2004, or 2005 at the latest, Don would have already had a really good idea of what his mystery Anerys really were. I'd find it hard to believe that he would have sold an AneryC at an AneryA price anytime after 2005. You should probably ask him about that. If that snake's an '06 or younger, and Don charged you less than $800 for it, he didn't sell you an AneryC. But ask him about it. Don's cool and helpful.

So, no Aner A's (or B for that matter) have come from his hypo line since he started it in 1989, so what is this guy then? I do plan on breeding to my other Aner lines as Rich did to prove it out, if it throws aners, then oh well, I have a really cool banded aner, but if it doesn't, then I guess we need to cross it to one of Rich's AnerC corns.

The fact that no AneryAs have been produced from that line since '89 doesn't prove that your snake ISN'T AneryA. Sometimes it takes a while for the genes to shuffle around enough to produce a homozygous allele pairing of a recessive mutation floating around in a population. That's a basic principle in the appearance of new mutant color/pattern genes. AneryA is one of the few mutant genes in corns that have significant numbers in the wild, even from geographically distant populations. It's probably floating around in a lot of lines without appearing yet.

Again, I know it isn't a new morph (unless it proves unrelated to the other 3 out there, I was just sharing the photo. However, if it proves related to Aner C, that line IS fairly new correct?

AneryC IS fairly new. But that snake isn't an AneryC. I just wanted to provide as much info as possible to back up what I'm seeing with my own eyes. And if you want to try to prove it, you should probably look into buying an AneryC female as soon as possible. It's probably going to be a long time before someone is willing to loan you a breeding-size/age AneryC female for the sake of proving out that male.

 

[Camby]

Thanks for the information and I guess I will have to take the cheap way out by at least proving it is or isn't related to Aner A and B.

As far as the age, the male is an 07.

As far as Don selling me the snake for the price of an Aner A, I never spoe about what I paid for the animal. However,i will say it wasn't sold to me at the price of an AnerA.

I know Don fairly well and he and I talk 2-3 times a week so that is why I have a good deal of knowledge of how this guy came to be. I truly don't want to sound like I am trying to "convince eveyone else" that it is AnerC or a differnt Aner, I really am not. I just wanted to share.

I may be wrong, but I think there is a picture of an "amel Cinder" corn on Ivan's Vivarium page that is credited to Carol. I stated earlier that Don never really thought much about the wierd looking Aner's that his hypo miami line produced until Carol told him she produced an aner by breeding the animal she got from Don to an animal from Rich. Like Rich, Don said his animals didn't look terribly special when they were small but they changed as they got older.

Again, I do thank you for the comments and I really don't want to sound like I don't appreciate it, I do. Hopefully it is unrelated to anything and we can prove it, but like I said before, if it isn't then oh well, I raised up a cool looking Aner (IMHO) that when bred with the sibling can produce hypo miamis, snows and who knows what else.

thanks again I will post updated pics as it ages.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I stated earlier that Don never really thought much about the wierd looking Aner's that his hypo miami line produced until Carol told him she produced an aner by breeding the animal she got from Don to an animal from Rich.

That's not what happened...
This is what happened (linked from the thread Dean posted):

1. Mother= Upper Keys X Hypo Corn purchased from Rich Z (EGG97G26)
2. Father= Hypo Miami purchased from Don Soderburg (EC366)
I kept back 1.1 Definate Hypos and 1.2 that I believe to be 1.0 Hypo and 0.2 Normal, but it is aweful hard to tell who is hypo and who just has some Upper Keys lightening influence. In F1 I got 30 hatchlings that were either Hypo or Normal, no Anerys, no Amels.
I only bred the 1.1 Hypos from my holdbacks this year because one of the normal females did not make breeding size and the other just plain refused to breed.

The offspring she produced from the original pairing were what produced Z's (the F2), not the pairing between Rich's & Don's stock.

 

[Camby]

Thanks

Thanks for the correction, I have read all the post in the thread Dean linked in his post. We will see how it plays out in breeding trials, Don has adults so hopefully the trait can be bred and proven out one way or another this coming season.

I did notice that Carol referrenced Don produced some odd looking babies like hers out of his hypo miami line, we will see how it goes.

I tell you what though, this forum offers alot more feed back than the other forums I have posted on in the past. Thanks guys for the help.

 

[Camby]

Question for Roy Munson

I forgot to ask in my reply to your reply to me. You stated the banded I posted isn't that banded. What do you consider a true banded corn? I have looked at several on the net and really haven't seen any that much more banded than this one. Not arguing with you, just thinking maybe your idea and my idea of banding may be different. I will agree that I have seen more uniformed banding than this guy, he does have a few of his bands that are broken or not complete, but he looks very banded compared to a normal corn IMHO.

Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Note how nearly all the saddles wrap around the snakes body. I see one on your snake that does.

Photo from SMR