Beardie Lighting Question - UVA and UVB Needed?

[markwebb]

We got a new beardie - she was born in August.

She is doing well under a 30 watt ESU "Brighlight" spot light. Temp 105-110 directly underneath, but cool side provides nice respite from heat when she needs it.

Question - the ESU light is supposed to provide heat+ UVA. Do we really need UVB light to keep our pet beardie healthy? Will UVA from this particular ESU light be sufficient for maintaining a healthy animal? I am afraid the 60 watt merc vapor full spectrum UVA-UVB will be way too hot for our 24" BARRS cage, and without some major modifications (cage has rear venting - hey we got it used cheap) we can't get a fluorescent fixture in there.

Any suggestions? Will the UVA only be OK long term?

 

[Seamus Haley]

She is doing well under a 30 watt ESU "Brighlight" spot light

No, she isn't. You just haven't noticed the problems yet.

Do we really need UVB light to keep our pet beardie healthy?

Yes.

Will UVA from this particular ESU light be sufficient for maintaining a healthy animal?

No.

Any suggestions?

Either make the modifications needed to add the flourescent fixture, buy a bigger cage to heat with the mercury vapor lamp or get rid of the beardie before it develops health problems which can't be easily reversed.

Will the UVA only be OK long term?

No. Not even close.

 

[Clay Davenport]

I have to respectfully disagree here. I have never been a follower of the UV cult.
I kept and bred bearded dragons for 9 years. In that time none of my dragons were ever exposed to any light other than incandescent basking lights. Not one, from actively breeding females to young being raised, ever displayed any health problems. I also never experienced a single instance of conspecific agression between hatchlings that is so often mentioned.

The dragons were provided with a good diet and proper supplementation, dusted greens daily and more crickets than I care to remember.
In the same vein, I also kept and bred day geckos during that entire time, and they never had exposure to full spectrum lighting either with equally fine results.

It has long been my opinion that the need for UV light has been blown way out of proportion. It has reached the point that people are considered cruel and horrible people if they do not provide their reptiles with full spectrum lighting. Oddly many of the people behind the accusations use the same UV bulbs for a year or two.
While some species may really need that light, chameleons or iguanas for instance, it is definately not an absolute requirement for all diurnal lizards. A proper dietary regimen is very important however, and if those needs are not met then a lack of UV light will most likely result in problems.
Full spectrum lights are a fine thing, but with a good diet though, they are not the life or death issue they are claimed to be for many species.

 

[herpcondo]

I disagree with Clay,,,
I think these animals need UVB,,, I personally have bred and raised a couple thousand up to juvies,, and there is no doubt the babies with UVB do better, Grow at a faster and more robust pace,, I did my own experiment to try this very fact out,, i took a whole clutch of babies from the same parents ( 16 in all) and put 8 in a grow out tub with a spot light for basking at 105 to 110 degrees,, and another tub exactly the same way with the other 8 babies with a spot light basking at 105 to 110 degrees and a 36 inch 8 % uvb reptiglow florescent tube over them,,, though the first group did grow and eat and turn out to be nice baby dagons,, the second group did grow more under the UVB and by the third month there was a noticeable difference in there growth and there colors,, they were without question more robust, and much more colorful... when i feed my baby dragons i feed a set number if crickets per enclosure so i know all will be eaten and the crixs won't stress the babies by crawling on them,, and these 2 enclosures got the same amount of greens everyday and the same amount of crickets everyday,,, ( i also use calcium at every feeding and herptivite once a week,)
The only variable in this experiment was the Florescent UVB and i know for a fact it does make a difference,,, If you want to see your dragon "energized" take them out side and let them bask in natural sunlight for a few hours,,, i take all of the breeder dragons i have outside for a few hours 3-4 times a week, and i am telling you it makes all the difference,,, they are just simply more happy and more energizd to have the natural UVB,, During the time of the year when they cannot go out side i use Mercury Vapor bulbs over all my breeders, and they just love the lights,,,
I know for me ,, if i was a betting man that the UVB is well worth it,, and i know the dragons without a shadow of a doubt do much better with it! I am proud to say every dragon i raise gets UVB and they are much better animals for it,,,!

 

[markwebb]

Research on Subject and My Decision

I did some in-depth research on the 'net on this topic. Results of my analysis is that full spectrum (5%-8%) fluorescent is very beneficial. Many experiments and antecdotal evidence showing benefits.

I modified our cage today and installed an 18" 7% full spectrum tube based on majority of feedback here and o the 'net. I bought an ESU combo light fixture (incadesc. and fluor in same hood), cut opening in top of BARRS cage with Dremel tool, and mounted a 24x12 commercial reptile screen top over cage. I can then just set the ESU fixture on top with lights over the hole.

Melissa Kaplan has compiled a lot of scientific evidence and independent articles/data on UVB and full spectrum in case anyone wants to read it.

I also am just using a $0.25 cent 100 watt incadescent bulb. Most articles said expensive "sun" or daylight incadescent (at like $6 each) are a waste of money.

On the topic of mercury vapor - I read many articles and scientific studies on them. They can be quite harmful to mammals - including humans. Since the beardie is in my son's room I decided not to go that route.

Thanks for the help !

 

[dwedeking]

One thing I've noticed is an increase in light overall raises the feeding and activity level of dragons (and chameleons as well). I've had dragons that seemed to respond better to having a UVB light added (either the Repti Suns or the PowerSun Mercury Vapor Bulbs). I do not know if the increase in health was due to additional UVB or also the additional light.

We keep our chameleons outside 9 months out of the year. I've noticed an increase (dramatically) in color and feed by being outside. When they are inside for the 3 months they are under Mercury Vapor bulbs which are very bright. This tells me their increased health is due to more than just a light factor (I am assuming UVB) as they are in a slightly shaded area outside.

 

[Gromph Baenre]

Excellent replies and observations on all points. There truly is no substitute for natural sunlight, but one must make due with what is available to them. From what I have read and experienced UVA spectrum provides "a feeling of well being", a physcological benefit. UVB spectrum stimulates the vitamin D3 precursor, which helps the beardie utilize the calicum in its diet. Therefore it acts as a prevention of MBD. Proper diet supplements can provide the necessary vitamin D3 for calicum absorption. I believe either way, full sprectrum or diet supplements can achieve the same results. But for a purely viewing experience the full sprectrum lighting fires the babies right up. Of course none of the above schools of thought are worth a hill of beans if they do not have the proper temperature gradient. Happy Herping.

Best regards,

Carson Grindstaff