Behaviror/Intelligence Differences in Drymarchon Species?

[eminart]

Hey guys, this is my effort to get some sort of conversation started here.

I know you've all probably heard the tales, like I have, about how the eastern indigo is one of, if not the most intelligent snake, how they're very personable, and reactive to their owners, etc. I remember reading these sorts of things 30 years ago when I was a kid and that's probably why I dreamed of having one all those years.

But, I'm curious, especially for those of you that have experience with the other Drymarchon species, are the others Dry's the same as far as intelligence and personality? I only have my young eastern, and no experience with the others. I've seen/heard that the yellowtails can be a bit more flighty and defensive. But, would you guys say the easterns really are different than the others? Or are they actually all very similar in this area?

 

[tim brophy]

I only have indigos, but they seem more aware than the other species I keep, but I am not so sure I would call it intelligence. Indigos are sight hunters (like racers, whipsnakes, even monitors), and need to be aware of their surroundings if they are going to find food and survive. This awareness, prompts people to label them as intelligent.
At the other extreme, I have heard folks label their green tree pythons as "stupid". But I do not believe that. Green tree pythons are ambush predators. They do not actively search prey. They keep their head down and remain in one place and wait for it to crawl by.
I suppose any snake is as "intelligent" as it needs to be, in order to survive.

 

[toooil]

One of my male Easterns had stuck eye caps after a shed. I gave him a nice warm soak and then gently restrained his neck as I carefully tried to remove the first eye cap with tweezers. He squirmed and struggled like crazy as I worked on the first one. After it came off, he calmed right down and I would swear he was looking at me as if to say "man, thats a lot better! thanks!". I went on to hold him the same way as I went on to the next one, but this time he held perfectly still and let me get it with ease. It seemed to me that he knew I was helping him so he calmed down.

As much as I would like to believe they are intelligent, I can't say that it wasn't just coincidental. It would be very interesting to do a study with Indigos to test their intelligence. Set up an experiment like where they put a crab in a mason jar and an octopus has to learn to unscrew the jar to get the crab.

I agree with Tim, they are very perceptive of their surroundings. I will regularly see them with their heads periscoping up out of the top of their hide box watching me as I work in the snake room.

 

[bmwdirtracer]

I think it's going to be really difficult to get the indigo to open the mason jar!

Actually, I have had EXACTLY the same experience with eye caps, with my older male couperi, and I feel absolutely sure he knew that I was helping, and was very patient. In spite of the fact that my head-restraining was not close enough or restrictive enough to prevent a bite or crawling away, he allowed me to fight with the caps for ten minutes, without resistance. For future reference, the flat-bladed tweezers worked pretty much instantly, and I used human sterile eye-lubricant to aid the process. The ten minutes was spent trying to use a fingernail.

I've had many thousands of snakes, in my life. Now, only couperi. Personally, I feel that couperi are more intelligent than almost any snakes I've known, with the possible exceptions of King Cobras and all the Mambas. ....But maybe that's no more than proof of what Tim said: that we equate active awareness with intelligence -- certainly, the Mambas and King Cobra are the epitomes of that.

But, on the other hand: I used to put harmless snakes in my shirt a lot, when I was younger: and I've got to admit that only king snakes ever tried to eat me. That really contributed to my thinking of them as pretty stupid (sorry, getulus guys). (Hey, maybe I'M STUPID, too, I tried it maybe ten times, before I quit putting getulus ssp.in my shirt){{I never tried putting elapids in my shirt }} (Rat snakes never did that ....maybe I just smelled like a snake, so king snakes liked me?)

My indigos also always crap in the same part of the cage.....admittedly, each has a different favorite spot in his or her cage: The '12 girl always craps in the water bowl; the 7 year female always craps around her hide box #2, the youngest boy always goes in the live plants, the youngest girl always in the same corner of her cage: ALWAYS.

Now, I've always had many cats - and they always find the litterboxes. When I had three big dogs, and lived in the desert, I always emptied the cat litter in the same spot of my 40 acres: and the dogs very quickly learned to use that same spot for their own solid waste. Is there not something intelligent there?
(Before you say it's stupid to crap in your water bowl, well, my snakes have 2 bowls in each cage, and they are inspected daily. That girl craps in only 1 of the two bowls, always the same one.)

My '12 couperi absolutely know me from other people; they always try to come back to me, when other people are holding them. This has been proven MANY times. I don't have repeated evidence for the other 3 snakes, but I have not had them long enough, or had other people handle them much.

Maybe I'm just projecting my own wishes: but I personally feel that couperi is the smartest NOT ABSURDLY DEADLY snake I've had the pleasure to know. As for other Drymarchon, I cannot say -but I had ~ a dozen couperi, MANY decades ago - when I owned HUNDREDS of snakes, and I always felt that they were very special and intelligent, even then. I've kept and even bred Masticophis and Coluber constrictor ssp; I have never thought them to be any smarter than your average snake -- and DAMN, THEY ARE ALERT.


Thanks so much, eminart, for introducing the thought-provoking question! Don't anyone get pissed off here, please, this is just for fun!

 

[eminart]

Very interesting replies, everyone. Tim, you may be right that their alertness gives them the illusion of more intelligence. Although, I think it may be true that active hunting requires more smarts than sitting in ambush.

Either way, they're great snakes.

My little guy is definitely quirky. I've had him for almost 6 months. During that whole time, his hide has been an upside-down, clay flower pot with an entrance hole chipped in the rim. It has gotten to the point where he can just barely wedge himself in, so I tried to replace it with a larger, plastic hide a few days ago. He absolutely refused to use it. For two days, he wandered around his enclosure, and slept coiled up in the corners. He's never done that. I don't know if he just doesn't like the smell or the larger size, or what, but he wouldn't use it. I finally put his little clay pot back in yesterday, and he went right back in and stayed.

 

[serpentsofdistinction]

I had some Texas and Eastern indigos in the past and was not that impressed with intelligence. But I did like them. I also keep Cobras and rattlesnakes. And I can say I have a pair of Forest Cobras and rattlesnakes that have become conditioned and learned routines. Such as my male and female Timbers are housed together. They are in a shift cage. Over the years my male has been fed on the right side always. Now when feeding time comes he slithers over to that side without manipulation and then I slide the devider in separating them for feedimg. Those are the only two species that I've been impressed with. Most other cobra species and rattlesnakes are kind of mindless. Forest Cobras are extremely on the ball.