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Info Ben Siegel Troubles

No pass for me. His arrest records show he has a cocaine possession charge as well.

Personally, I can never do business with them again. I live nearby and purchase all my supplies there, but that has ended.

My brother is schizophrenic and I have helped him as a caregiver, so I know a bit about disorders. It's not a free pass to be mentally ill, sorry.

I can't help but imagine if I had sold him a few geckos like I planned, and they were suddenly projectiles.

I personally hope he is banned from animals for good.
 
If he choose to stop taking his meds and not go to therapy,lock him up!! He needs help.

He knew exactly what would happen if this stopped taking his meds,like we all know what happens when we stop taking our meds. Hes not a young kid,seems to be a bit intelligent,yet he's not to bright if he stopped taking his meds! Or keeping up with the proper dosing. And deserves what he gets.

Lock him up in the nut house if he won't take his meds and keeps hurting animals,people. If most of you seen a guy acting like that on the streets,you'd say the same thing!! But because it's "Ben" it's all different.

He's shown he cannot be trusted to do what's right. I hope he gets what he should,time away to heal himself again.

Someone said great staff. But yet they just watched him do what he did without stepping up? Why? Great staff would have done something other than video tape or whatever. That's not great staff IMO. Maybe good workers,but great?
 
I agree that he should not be around animals, and that might be for good now that his mental illness has this added component, ie, losing touch with his compassion toward animals.

However, as I mentioned earlier, Bi polar disorder is an extremely difficult and sad thing to deal with for the person suffering from it and the people around that person. I have experienced it in a family member and in someone that I worked with. There are times when they understand that they need their meds. During these rational moments, they feel terrible about the way they have behaved and they will stay on the meds for awhile, but two things are true: the meds make you feel terrible physically, they make you forgetful, and they can have the ironic effect of making you depressed or flat emotionally. The two people that I know who have it took the meds, apologized to everyone that he and she hurt during episodes, got sick of the meds or forgot to take them, and went off. Treatment for bi polar disorder is far from ideal. Its not like sobering up and staying on a wagon. Neither of those people are in my life now. I can't deal with the episodes, but I can't despise them. They are sick!

Please understand that mental illness is by definition a tenuous hold on reality. I don't know Ben. I see his good guy threads here, but I have never done business with him. I was horrified when I heard about this. I did not know about the mental illness until these discussions were started. Yes, I feel outraged at ANY animal abuse, and my first inclination is to despise the abuser. However, I also hope that I am evolved enough to understand mitigating circumstances. While I hope he either voluntarily gets out of the reptile business or is made to, I also feel compassion for a man with mental illness and for the people who make the difficult choice of staying by his side.
 
I don't think he has lost his compassion for animals. As I've said before, I'm betting that he was experiencing a psychotic break. Ben has been in this business for longer than just about anyone posting on this thread and has done some amazing things in the hobby. He didn't develop this disorder overnight. It's obvious he can hold himself together in the correct circumstances. What needs to happen is to get him stabilized and then go from there. Reading a lot of the posts on this thread makes me realize that the American public is still back in the 80's as far as understanding of mental illness. It's a sad thing, honestly. Rosebud, you are right in that the medical treatment for bipolar is not a miracle cure. People with this disorder need the support of professionals and also those in their personal lives. But, with the correct support, people can go on to do pretty much anything that someone without the disorder can do, as Ben has proven in the past.
 
Depending upon your reptiles of choice, you may or may not know that the same week as Ben's arrest, another prominent, well-liked member of this community lost his teenage son due to mental issues. Not one single person has put forth anything but sympathy and prayers. Not one person has suggested that, had he not stopped taking his meds, he would be alive. I haven't seen any "you should've known" or "why the past free passes?" As yet, no one has compared him to mass murderers like Lanza and Holmes. Our hearts break for this man, and his child. Yes, the child had plenty of 'instances' in his past. Does the difference lie in the involvement of the bearded dragon? God, I hope not.
 
rcarichter said:
Depending upon your reptiles of choice, you may or may not know that the same week as Ben's arrest, another prominent, well-liked member of this community lost his teenage son due to mental issues. Not one single person has put forth anything but sympathy and prayers. Not one person has suggested that, had he not stopped taking his meds, he would be alive. I haven't seen any "you should've known" or "why the past free passes?" As yet, no one has compared him to mass murderers like Lanza and Holmes. Our hearts break for this man, and his child. Yes, the child had plenty of 'instances' in his past. Does the difference lie in the involvement of the bearded dragon? God, I hope not.
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:iagree:

And some who consider this other person who lost his child to the same mental illness a friend are expressing compassion toward Ben, myself included. Having someone in your life who is bi polar is heartbreaking.

So let me ask this: for those of you who argue that no compassion should be shown to Ben, and who suggest that he is only getting compassion because he is Ben Siegel: on what are you basing that conviction? I have seen lots of good guy threads here. I don't have time to go and search for the dirt on him, so maybe you can enlighten me. I know that there was some domestic trouble last year that seems to be related to the mental illness, but is there a past case of mistreatment of animals?
 
The term should never have been changed from “manic-depression”. Every time I hear "bi-polar",I think of the north and south poles.:rolleyes:
 
Guy Castro said:
The term should never have been changed from “manic-depression”. Every time I hear "bi-polar",I think of the north and south poles.:rolleyes:
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Yes, I agree. If you have someone who is manic/depressive in your life, this is really what it is like. They will be extremely arrogant, angry, pseudo inspired, or obsessive ( and of course irrational) in one moment of time, then tumble to the depths of despair (irrational) in others.

I hope treatments have improved enough that there is hope for Ben to recover to the point where he can safely interact with animals again, but I haven't seen evidence that people with bi polar disorder ever stay on track indefinitely. One guy that I worked with is a brilliant guitar player. He will be the first to tell you that he is mentally ill, yet he is homeless. He drifts from one friend to another, burning bridges as he goes because he thinks he can't play when he takes the meds, so he tries to self medicate with alcohol, and of course ends up on the street again when he has that inevitable episode. This guy is past middle age, and this has been going on for most of his adult life.

It is incredibly sad to me when someone who has made such great contributions to the hobby, to music, to technology, to whatever, develops this disorder. Would you be more compassionate if he had schizophrenia, or a brain tumor that made him forget that he had a live animal in his hand?
 
LizardKing777 said:
No pass for me. His arrest records show he has a cocaine possession charge as well.

Personally, I can never do business with them again. I live nearby and purchase all my supplies there, but that has ended.

My brother is schizophrenic and I have helped him as a caregiver, so I know a bit about disorders. It's not a free pass to be mentally ill, sorry.

I can't help but imagine if I had sold him a few geckos like I planned, and they were suddenly projectiles.

I personally hope he is banned from animals for good.
Click to expand...

You apparently don't have much exp. with disorders if you think he knew what he was doing.
 
True. Although having a "mental illness" isn't a pass or a free get out of jail card when one does something against the law. This isn't his first time he's done something.
 
I have bought animals from Ben Siegel before and have never had a complaint. I live 4.5 hours away but every time I visit family in South Florida I stop there. My personal opinion in this matter is that since he has shown time and time again that he can't control himself, then he needs to pay the price. Some of you are focusing so much on the fact that he has a mental illness, that it doesn't matter what he did. Mental illness or not, it doesn't erase the fact that he attacked people wielding a live animal. You can call me cold or ignorant but the FACTS are that he committed a crime. This isn't an attack on anyone just my personal opinion.
 
I guess that all depends on your philosophy of criminal prosecution. If your goal is punishing the person, then yes, lock him away and don't worry about it. If your goal is to ensure the best chance of the behavior not repeating itself, then a different approach is necessary.

I'm very much concerned about his behavior and the possibility of it intensifying. I also know that throwing him in jail isn't going to do a thing about the behavior other than possibly making it worse. America imprisons a larger percentage of it's population than ANY other country on earth. Obviously that hasn't been working for us and has done nothing other than perpetuate the cycle of criminality.
 
The possibility of it intensifying? It already has, he had attacked several people, got arrested for cocaine AND has now attacked people while abusing an animal. He is showing a pattern of increase. He needs to be, I hate to say it, locked in a facility where he can get help, and only once he's stable and can show he's capable let out. They do this quite often with the mentally ill. It's not just a punishment but treatment as well. He doesn't need jailed and forgot about, he needs held in a facility and given treatment and a "parole" that requires him to continue therapy, medication, and so on. But I'm sure I'll be told I don't understand yet again. Even though I do have issues of my own and a son with autism (yes different from big polar but still a disorder) I'm incompassionate I just think differently than many on this thread I guess. Even though my son is autistic and cannot always control his actions does that mean he shouldn't get a time out or some type of punishment? No it doesnt, because he needs to learn whats wrong and try to learn better behaviors.
 
I over the years have been to his place 100's of times.. I never had a bad experience with Ben or his staff... Yet the last time it was in about a week before the incident, myself and my wife absolutely noticed Ben acted in a manic manner.. His normally reserved personality was in reverse he walked around the store smoking and vaping together, he ran to me convinced I was his neighbor telling the staff I get 50% off anything I wanted.. I never seen him act or look the way he did.. I truly hope he gets the help he needs...
 
It's sad that this happened to a guy who appears to be renowned as a "good guy", but now matter what his reputation was, there needs to be action against the crimes committed.
 
Croghans Reptiles said:
crimes committed.
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The law as it is written in the United States requires that there be shown intent or as it used to be known, mens rea (the levels, negligently, recklessly, knowingly, purposefully as defined by the Modern Penal Code) in order to convict someone of most crimes.
As far as I know from what has been written here, Ben is accused, not convicted; whether he had the requisite intent has not been shown.

There are various ways to look at punishment- utilitarian, where punishment is designed to change and improve behavior, and retribution, where punishment is used merely to right the perceived scales of justice.
But punishments including jail aren't even on the table yet, or shouldn't be: in order to punish one must convict, and here in the US, in order to convict for most crimes, one must prove requisite intent.
 
Ben needs treatment, not punishment... He thought I was his neighbor who called the police on him... I live two hours from him.... He's delusional...
 
Silverback87 said:
Ben needs treatment, not punishment...
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I agree. And MANY of those incarcerated need treatment, not punishment. I can only hope that this incident brings dialogue and thought and help not only here but everywhere.
 
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