Beware: Dead Albino Ball Pythons from Rick Crew!

[Lilley]

I have sold and purchased over 75,000 rare reptiles since 1981. There are always some problems and missunderstandings but I have never had one quite like this. I paid $3,000 for a male Albino Ball Python from Rick Crew in MS. He sent the snake in an unmarked box, no isulation or heat pack. He used the USA Mail and it took two days to arrive! It was skin and bones when it arrived and died in two days! It looks like it may have the IBD virus and was frozen immediatly. I took photos of the snake and shipping box. This was six months ago and Rick Crew will not replace the snake or return the money. I rarely complain for others to see, but I think everyone should be aware of people who ship rare reptiles illegally and in poor shipping containers!
Below is the snake that was sold to me for $3,000!
Sincerely,
Terry Lilley
Central Coast Reptile Research Center.

 

[sputnik]

ILLEGAL SHIPPING METHODS

If you have proof that he sent it USPS then that is illegal. Rick Crew needs to provide his side of the story also, but you should probably also state where you saw the advert for this animal and get a vet report on why it died.

Shipping usps is certainly illegal, was there a health gurantee on the snake or any form of money back gurantee that you could also use against him?

If so, you may also have a case of fraud.

Scott Collien

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

How did he respond when you confronted him about the animals condition and requested a refund?

 

[evansnakes]

Terry, in my 15 years in this business I have met many, many people that have done business with you. I have yet to meet one that was happy with a dealing with you. I have had people tell me that you sold animals as hets that after several years of breeding never threw a mutation. I have been told as recently as a couple months ago that you have owed a couple different people that I know refunds for animals that you have never shipped, that they paid for. One is going on it's second year. One is at nearly a year. I have had other people tell me about the poor quality animals that they received from you.

We have never done business, but with the overwhelming number of derrogotory things that I have been told about your business ethics, from people that I do know and have dealt with, I have a great deal of trouble lending any credibility to anything you would post here. It may be true. You may be right, but it is hard, with your reputation, to take you at your word.

Evan Stahl

 

[Corey Sawyer]

I would like to state that many months ago, Terry offered me a Snake, that already belonged to us (we bought it from a pet market in china)! The imagine he used was a picture my partner took, with the background cut out. The snake was never for sale, infact it was not even alive at that point! (it is currently preserved sitting in my breakfast room). He never had permission to use our pictures, nor edit the pictures, nor sell the snake (which had already passed away at that point).

I have no problems with brokers (I broker animals from a couple zoos), but some do cause problems.

This is not a bad guy post, nor a good guy post. However it makes for one f&$#*^% funny story to tell people.

 

[Nigel]

Rick Crew (Family Forever Breeding)

Rick Crew of MA may or may not still be operating under the name Family Forever Breeding.

A couple of years ago my wife and I spent around $45,000 (in one year) with Rick Crew. Within 12 months over $20,000 worth of animals were dead. We posted full details of these events on the original Board of Inquiry. The cause of death of these animals was IBD.

Rick Crew was notified that he was selling animals with IBD. He continued knowingly selling sick and infected animals.

In addition to ourselves, many others came forward with horrendous tales of being sold sick, dying or dead animals by Rick Crew.

As a direct consequence of the information provided by ourseleves and other parties, Rick Crew and Family Forever Breeding were thrown off of Kingsnake. Rick Crew was banned from having his website listed on Kingsnake. Rick Crew was banned from listing animals for sale in the Kingsnake classifieds.

The FBI Internet Fraud Complaint Center currently has on file complaints made by ourselves and many other victims of Rick Crew.

It is unfortunate that the original "Bad Guy" posts about Rick Crew were lost along the way as this board evolved from its original format. Rick has - and will continue to - sell sick and diseased animals without regard for anything other than the almightly dollar.

Rick Crew is one of the worst "Bad Guys" you will ever come across.

 

[Nigel]

I Forgot to Add...

Rick never refunded one penny of our money.

 

[WebSlave]

Just a note for the record...

The first edition of the Board of Inquiry has NOT been lost. I have the entire thing archived. I just have not had the time to put it up on the server, index the files for the search engine, and link it into the current site.

But it does still exist.

 

[XzSaGezX]

Confused

Hmm I am pretty confused on who is the bad guy in this one the way I take it a Bad guy is posting about another bad guy. Thats just the way I see it. I hope either atleast come back to defend themselves.

 

[Nigel]

Thank you for the clarification...

I seem to recall (perhaps incorrectly) reading somewhere along the way that the first edition files were archived, but that they were not in a format that permitted them to be loaded into subsequent editions. I also seem to recall (perhaps incorrectly) reading something that said that it may be possible to reload the archived files, but that this would require a fairly substantial effort.

I should probably rephrase my statement...

It is unfortunate that the original "Bad Guy" posts about Rick Crew were lost along the way as this board evolved from its original format.

to the following...

It is unfortunate that the original "Bad Guy" posts about Rick Crew posted on the first edition Board of Inquiry are currently inaccessible in this edition.

Thanks.

 

[evansnakes]

I find that much more credible and now just think it is ironic that Terry got nailed by somebody in the manner that he is normally the perpetraitor of. It would be an ideal world if people liek both of these guys would go sell used cars or cemetary plots instead of destroying the reptile industry. Evan Stahl

 

[Kestrel]

This is just my 2 cents on the subject.. I agree with Evans comment 100%... I tend to not complain publicly much on deals, as I generally know the persons rep before buying, and if i get screwed, then its my own personal loss. But i'd just like to add in that I was purchased a baby nile monitor as a gift from Central in october/november, which was supposedly "happy, healthy, feeding and robust".. What arrived was an emaciated skeletal, severely dehydrated baby that refused to eat much of anything, and dispite my best efforts, died in a few weeks. I was upset, but never rose a stink about it, as I was expecting something like this, but it does seriously bother me that they continued to post adds for these baby niles that are supposedly in great shape and healthy... Now I have another nile that i bought at the same age, quite a while ago from a different person, and he's large and thriving, so I'm not some moron who just up and killed it from inexperiance. I figured since others were on this subject, i'd add my bit, and I've heard several other horror stories from people who were screwed over. I'm sorry it happened to him, but like deserves like. I'm a big fan of Karma... Even if it was just a 25 dollar lizard being payed back by a 3K albino ball that had to suffer. Beware of BOTH of these people.

 

[The BoidSmith]

I paid $3,000 for a male Albino Ball Python from Rick Crew in MS. He sent the snake in an unmarked box, no isulation or heat pack. He used the USA Mail and it took two days to arrive! It was skin and bones when it arrived and died in two days! It looks like it may have the IBD virus and was frozen immediatly. I took photos of the snake and shipping box. This was six months ago and Rick Crew will not replace the snake or return the money.

Terry,

You have been posting on this board for over a year now. Why posting now about something that happened six months ago? It is hard to believe that a ball python turned out that bad in just 2 days. Didn't you ask for pictures before buying a $3,000 snake. Didn't you immediately contact Rick upon arrival of the snake?

 

[evansnakes]

Just a thought here, but I have also hear all the time that Terry does not pay up front for animals. Why now? Why now with a guy that he must have know was problematic? Evan Stahl

 

[gail]

Have you not considered the fact that maybe Rick Crew did not send a picture of the animal he was selling but a picture of a healthy looking albino? I have not posted here in years because of what happens on this board when someone tries to alert people to an unscrupulous dealer. There is a mob mentality when one person does not agree, everyone jumps on board to slash and bash. When we posted our problem with Rick Crew a few years back, we were ridiculed. It made me feel as though why should we bother to try and keep others from making a mistake that we made. Let them get taken and learn the lesson on their own. But after being in this business for a few years now, we know there are some really good people out there, and if just one person is spared what we went through, then I guess it's worth speaking out. We just wanted to let people out there know that this is a person to be wary of. Regardless of Terry Lilley's background, what he is saying could possibly be true, and instead of slamming Terry Lilley, who by the way I don't know at all, you should be using this information to your benefit and remember the name Rick Crew as someone to be wary of.

Gail Thorpe

 

[sschind]

Evan,

Are you saying that you do not believe the story that Terry has come here with. If you have legitimate first hand information about him it should be posted in a bad guy thread about him, and not here as "this is what I heard from someone else" in a thread about Rick Crew. I know that what you are doing (along with Kestral) is making people aware of Terry's reputation, but if you are not adding to the point of the original thread about Rick you should be posting it in a separate thread about Terry. It also sounds like you have no first hand knowledge about Terry's dealings since all of your information has been gained from talking with people who have dealt with him. You admit you have never personally dealt with him.

Simply put, no matter how accurate your comments may be I do not think they are appropriate here.


Kestrel The only way this forum will work is if people like you. people with first hand experience with the bad guys, come foreward with their stories. I understand you are not one to make a public fuss, and I can appreciate that. Still, if it bothered you enough that they were still selling, and misrepresenting, animals in that condition, you should have said something.

However, despite the fact that your post differs from Evan's in that it relays your personal experiences with Terry, I still think it belongs in a thread of its own.

I do not think it is inappropriate however to make a link to this thread in any thread about Terry.

Steve Schindler

 

[The BoidSmith]

Have you not considered the fact that maybe Rick Crew did not send a picture of the animal he was selling but a picture of a healthy looking albino? I have not posted here in years because of what happens on this board when someone tries to alert people to an unscrupulous dealer. There is a mob mentality when one person does not agree, everyone jumps on board to slash and bash.

Gail,

Hopefully my message did not come through as if I was trying to bash Terry Lilley. I never bought from him, thus I have nothing to say about him.

My questions were meant to clarify the point. Yes, it is possible that Rick pictures of a different animal, but I guess we will never know unless either one post in here. My question with regards to the six months that had gone by was meant to address exactly the point you made. If he had a problem with Rick Crew he could have brought it up long ago. Why wait six months to post it? As you very well said, this information could have benefited many people that during these six months time might have also been deceived.

Best regards.

 

[evansnakes]

Gail, I don't doubt you for a minute, but you need to understand how bad it is for all of us that someone like Terry Lilley can rip off so many people and then still try to use this board for his own advantage.

I know somebody else that paid Terry for an adult indigo three years ago and still has no animal and no money. Another, who last season sent Terry two albino balls in trade for two boelens pythons pythons. He still has nothing nearly a year later. The list goes on and on. If any one doubts my info than get Terry to respond to all these charges here and tell you they are not true. It's too bad he won't and can't.

Steve, it is 100% pertenant when someone tries to post here to abuse this board. This is not hearsay. I know more about what goes on in this business than you could ever begin to know. I can not sit by when somebody like this that has screwed over so many people is trying to use this board. Again, if you think this is hearsay, get Terry to respond. Evan Stahl

 

[gail]

Alvaro, my only point to you was that it wouldn't be below Rick Crew's standard to post a false picture. I understand your point totally. Maybe Lilley was waiting to see if he could resolve the matter with Rick Crew, and when he was unable to then he decided to post his problem. Whatever the reason, I am not here to defend Lilley, just give another view of the situation.

Evan, I understand what you are saying and agree that maybe this is just fair turnaround to someone who has been unscrupulous themselves. But the point is that whether Lilley is a good guy or a bad guy, he has a right to post what this Rick Crew has done. To say that because Lilley is a bad guy too, and so his posts are meaningless ,would defeat the purpose of this board. There are a lot of people in this business that have no room to throw stones, but we need to know when someone is selling sick animals. I know for a fact that Rick Crew has been knowingly selling sick animals for several years now. I would like Lilley to tell us through what venue did he find Rick Crew, and what name he is using for his business, because Family Forever Breeding has been banned from Kingsnake for over a year and I'm curious as to where he is advertising.

So in the end, I understand the points being made here, but you can't lose sight of the fact that this post is about someone who has been selling sick animals and animals that incorrectly sexed for a long time.

Thanks for listening.......

Gail Thorpe

 

[Seamus Haley]

Steve, it is 100% pertenant when someone tries to post here to abuse this board.

Evan, one of the reasons this board has the credibility it does is because, with the exception of those who REALLY abuse the board, violating the very few rules Rich has set forth OVER and OVER... EVERYONE can post their thoughts, opinions, experiences and evidence to support any of the above...

Even a bad guy can be ripped off, it doesn't invalidate what they have to say and they should not be prevented from using the board if they have honest information to put forth...

When Adam Block ends up failing to ship to Jesse Underhill, people should still hear about it.

Now... the guy's history and personal ethics aside, Terry has made a few statements in a fairly calm, professional manner and the words of a few others have supported his comments... So where is the abuse exactly?

I know more about what goes on in this business than you could ever begin to know.

I'm probably going to get a warning post for this but... Evan, you act like a real jackass sometimes.

There was no need whatsoever for you to try and "one up" Steve like that... You have enjoyed some success to be certain, you have great animals, a solid reputation and a lot of friends in this business... but that does not make your thoughts, comments or opinions ANY more valuable than anyone elses. It seems everytime someone disagrees with you, you've got some bizzare need to try and throw your reputation in their face...

It really makes me wonder if maybe you're just insecure and acting compulsively in something akin to "little man's syndrome"...

Are you just upset because you aren't Bob Clark so you try and shove what you ARE back on people to make yourself feel better?

The only reason this board is as sucessful as it is, as useful and valuable and functional... is because ANYONE and EVERYONE can show up and post until they prove that they can't handle it... and it takes an enormous amount to reach that point... Nobody here... especially not someone with apparant self esteem issues like yourself... can remove that from them (except Rich of course).

If your response to this is as it usually is when someone disagrees with you, I'll get some post telling me how I'm a nobody and you're the God of herpetology and how I can never purchase your animals because of how worthless I am...

Go for it Evan... but while you write it, maybe you should take a few minutes to sit back and look at your own behavior and try and figure out where this inferiority complex came from that makes you write crap like...

I know more about what goes on in this business than you could ever begin to know.

... And fix the root problem rather than annoying everyone online with your inability to allow disagreement with anything you say because it might bruise your apparantly fragile and sensitive ego.