BEWARE - Herpfauna Plus

[Python Dreams]

Check out this Pastel.....

I was just reading the Ball Python Classifieds on Kingsnake, and I see an add for an 03 Pastel male. It says how this is his holdback Pastel, for the amount of black in it. I can not find any resemblance to a Pastel at all from this photo and decided I would look him up on the BOI and see what is there. I kinda forgot about it, then I see this thread and remember about the misrepresented blonde, and it kinda fell into place. It really bothers me when people place terms like wannabe Pastel, or maybe a Pastel, here for you, great price!! All anyone has to do is email some of the known, respectable Ball breeders and ask, but instead would rather have this sort of mis-leading advertisement. Cause we all know that if we had a possible real morph on our hands we would just guess and sell it for less... Right??? In reality, they just look kinda stupid to anyone that knows anything about the morph in general. But, whenever someone ouright lies and says that it is a Pastel is pretty damn low. I have seen Pastels that don't have the typical blushing, but the coloration is present along with the eyes and belly. This really does not look like a Pastel at all!!! Maybe I'm wrong??? Maybe it is to early in the morning, but this add bothered me. I will try and attach an image from the add.
Thanks, Tom Baker

 

[Python Dreams]

Since the photo showed up really small, I saved the whole add, but cannot attach it. It needs to be converted to jpeg. or something like that. I can send it out if anyone knows how to attach it. Until, then here is a photo of my Pastel holdback female. I see no resemblance at all in the 2 Pastels.
Tom Baker

 

[Hues1]

unbelieveable..., well maybe not....its probably a "HET FOR PASTEL"

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Tom,

I also saw the ad and the animal pictured is NOT a pastel in any form or fashion. I have written to the person and told them the same thing.


Now as for your comment about the pastel like etc. etc. I have sold quite a few animals that looked very similar to Pastel but I would not say they were pastels and most of them the customers agree they look so much like pastels and are super happy with them and are going to try and prove them out. Not everyone that uses terms like that is misrepresenting or ripping someone off. I also had another group that were the same thing. I offered them early last year as Pastel Looking (closest to Pastel I had seen and offered at $400 ea.). I caught a bunch of crap from alot of people on them saying they were not pastels, so I decided to hold them back only to have quite a few people a few months later who saw them in person to be offered substantially more than what I advertised them for previously. I still have 3.1 of them I will be proving out and having my own line of Pastel because I would not take the $2k+ ea. for them offered later on. Now what I am saying does not go for all people that advertise certain animals with these descriptive terms but there are a few of us that know what a Pastel looks like that do but the ones that blatantly try and pass an animal off as something it is not (like in this situation with Herp-A-Fauna) should be pointed out for everyone.

 

[pestywesty101]

pastel?

I'm sure they were advised by their on site vetrainarian that it was a pastel and it's also a female OHH!! and wait for the next post where jayshady thanks us for selling it for him !
Yeah right! This guy is a joke!! Tim Stockton

 

[Sasheena]

Here's the advertisement....

 

[Sasheena]

And here is the full sized photograph of the "pastel"

 

[herpetological]

If that's a pastel, i've sent out hundreds of them and lost thousands of dollars!!! I always considered that a normal!!!! Just don't know my morphs I guess? LOL's!!!! Well that's two well defined misrepresentations so far?

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

This person responded to my e-mail I sent informing them that the animal he has pictured is not a Pastel. He is now saying that it was sold to him as a Pastel produced from a Pastel breeding with an Orange Ringer. I informed him that if the person sold him that animal as a pastel he needs to get his money back as he was sold was of the normal siblings to a pastel. I would be more inclined to believe the animals (if it really was sold as a pastel) is nothing more than a c.h. normal. I also informed him of this thread.

 

[Python Dreams]

Rob,
The only reason I commented on this guy was because their was a thread already existing on the first page for basically the same thing. I don't think I have ever emailed someone personally and told them how to run their add or what to sell their animal for. But, I have seen adds of yours where you stated possible new line of Pastel, maybe prove it out, or something near that. Just like the people that emailed you, I thought, this was a very misleading add. The snake was not a Pastel, so even talking about maybe proving out some new line of Pastel looked really bad to me. When people have a new line of Pastel, it looks exactly like a Pastel (many differences, but a very similar look) and your pretty sure of their being some genetics involved. Just like if you found a WC Albino, you would pretty much know that it is a recessive trait, and a new line. You culd post a picture of a Pastel with your possible and I think that it wouldn't look anything alike. Then again, I only saw 1 from your add and I am going off that. Every one has their own selling strategies, I just think that adding your own names like high white fire sided, possible Pastel, and such kinda cheapens the actual morph market and possibly your image to others. This is my opinion only since you brought it up, and I don't doubt that your animals are healthy and well cared for, but I just disagree with some of your adds.
Tom Baker

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Tom,

In regards to that Possible New Line of Pastel you are talking about. She had all the characteristics of being a pastel but I could not gurantee she was a pastel because I did not produce her. Everyone that saw her in person felt she was a pastel and the person that bought her said the same thing. He was sure she was a pastel and was happy to pay that small of a price for her. Also in case you are unaware in the pastel market not all Pastels looks the exact same. I have seen quite a few that were real pastels that did not even have all the characteristics but were proven genetically to be pastels. But my ads are not even the same as this ad that was placed. Anything that I can't not gurantee Genetics on is not sold as that animal. I use descriptive's to describe an animal I am selling. If I have an animal that is genetic then the genetics are guranteed (such as the Het Albino's I have right now for sale) The others are being described as to what they look like. I can tell you this, I have sold quite a few animals last year that you and just about everyone else would look at them and say that is nothing more than a normal (and quite a few of people like that e-mail me regarding them) but they were purchased by some of the Biggest name breeders in the country because they (as well as some others in the Ball Market) know what they are and what they can produce. This ad we are talking about that was placed by Herp-A-Fauna was blantantly not a pastel being sold as one. When he was informed of it not being a pastel he took it off the market.

 

[Python Dreams]

Rob,
First, I do not doubt at all that if you state you have 100% guaranteed het, that it is in fact a het.
I guess I didn't state it too well, but I know their is a tremendous variety of looks in the Pastel's, along with a few different lines, some of which have a really different look (blondes, stonewashed, Ruppel) but have the characteristics that tell you that it is a Pastel ("but a very similar look"). I have seen a Pastel that had no blushing at all, just a very busy lined pattern, with the yellow coloration. Even as adults, once they lose some of their coloration, it is still evident that it is a Pastel. Their are also Ball's that have blushing, white belly, lighter colored eyes, and maybe varying degrees of yellow or light tans.. Still not Pastels. I don't know which snakes you have sold, and if your customer is happy that is all that matters, but the add I saw in no way resembled a Pastel. But that is just my opinion and I only brought it up since you responded to my post.

"I have sold quite a few animals last year that you and just about everyone else would look at them and say that is nothing more than a normal (and quite a few of people like that e-mail me regarding them) but they were purchased by some of the Biggest name breeders in the country because they (as well as some others in the Ball Market) know what they are and what they can produce."

I don't think that many people would take the time to prove out slightly different variations of the normal, then take no credit or name it as a morph, but just sell it and "know what they can produce". Unlless your talking about the yellow bellies. It is true that some snakes don't photo well, such as hypos, but it is also true that the definition of a hypo is something that is lighter than a normal. Some people would sell a very light normal as a hypo, even though it doesn't look like what is accepted as hypo/ghost. It all comes down to I feel that "Maybe a Pastel.. Possible New line.." is not something that I would do. I would either visually see that it is a Pastel and then claim prove out your new line of Pastel (just imported) as we have seen plenty of people do on the Kingsnake classifieds (the snakes are visually Pastels). Since I only buy morphs from breeders and know exactly what I am getting, it is not a problem for me. I just dont agree with any sales tactics (photos speak volumes more than flashy names) and feel strongly that the animal in your add was not a Pastel (was 1 of 4, I think you said). I would not email you are even mention this to you, but only responded since we talked about it in this thread. I also don't think I am in any way an expert, or know more than you, ar anything along those lines, but I do feel you could email some of the true experts photos and know wether you have what your selling as a possible. Just from what I have learned since I have been doing this, and even seeing a light yellow blushing baby wanting to be sold to me as probably a Pastel. Well, probably 8 months later I purhased her as a blushing, weird looking normal. Since this only has a slight relation to this thread, we could continue in private, but I feel we both have our own opinions that will more than likely not change.
Thanks, Tom Baker

 

[abi2020]

This is Herp Fauna Plus Talking Now!!!

Hello everyone. This thread and forum was brought to my attention yesterday by RK Reptiles. Thanks Rob for referring me to this site and telling me about the problem. I would like to clarify this entire discussion of what seems to be two problems that occured. It took me almost an hour to read all of this but here goes. The first issue is the selling of the Leopard Tortoise. The person that Alex Hue dealt with is my husbands friend's son. He is a 16 year old high school kid. The ad was posted and we represented this animal on a brokering basis. Now after reading everything, it is obvious that Alex and Jason did not get along to well with pride and feelings hurt on both ends. This kid was really traumatized by the whole transaction and situation. I am not trying to criticize or blame anyone but this BOI seems to be pretty harsh on everyone. Everyone on this site is human and sooner or later will have problems with there customers. It is our duty as business owners to solve each situation as amicably as possible. The next issue is the Pastel Ball Python that I posted on Kingsnake two nights ago. And after this, I have learned you never want to mess around with the Ball python people(they go after your throat). I feel responsible and apologize to everyone that saw this ad. I am apologizing for not knowing about Pastels and should have done my homework before posting. The other side of the "Pastel Story" is I received this animal from B & T Reptiles in Maryland. They post on KS everyday. They are suppose to be experts on ball pythons? They traded this animal to me as a "Orange Ringer Pastel." I forwarded a few e-mails to B & T to show them some of the responses I was getting with regards to the so called "Pastel". I basically told them that if there would have been just one hate mail type response I would have thought nothing of it . But I received 27 e-mails from different enthusiasts and knew all of you could not have been wrong. The response I received from B & T Reptiles was that everyone else is full of crap and that you guys were just being critics. I am trying to resolve the issue with them and have learned a valuable lesson. I just wanted everyone to understand the problem was addressed and I would like to ask everyone to please stop bashing my business. Respectfully, Abi G.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Abigail,

Thank you for posting on here. One thing though is you need to post your full name as that is one of the rules of this site otherwise your post can be deleted.

I hope this B&T refunds your money becuase as I told you in the e-mails that animal is not a pastel and if it was sold to you as a pastel they blatantly ripped you off. That animal very well could be a Pastel Sibling but is definitiely not a pastel. Good luck with your refund.

 

[Hues1]

Hello Abigail,
If you got taken by B&T Reptiles...then I suggest you put up a "Bad Guy" thread about them and your transaction here on the BOI.

BUt I've got a few questions...

1. Were you aware that this thread about young Jason and Heprfauna was here ?

2. what are your comments about this following comment made by young Jason ?

***News flash! Just in!*** The Herp Fauna Plus people report that the months of January and February have sky rocketed and reached an all time "high" sales record with your help and publicity. The team would like to thank all of those people that participated in this thread

3. and what about this one ?

Everyone on this end has been forwarded the E-mails & links to the website and is quite aware of the chain of events

This kid was really traumatized by the whole transaction and situation.

Yupper...he was so traumatized that he decided to come here make up a username and attempt to taunt myself and the other members of this board.

But....if he do this all without your acknowledgement...then I suppose you folks might not be the "bad guy" this thread is about.

Anxiously awaiting your reply.

 

[E2MacPets]

The ad was posted and we represented this animal on a brokering basis. Now after reading everything, it is obvious that Alex and Jason did not get along to well with pride and feelings hurt on both ends.

Are you aware that the animal you brokered was misrepresented in your ad as something it was explicitly sold to Jason as not being? Jason clearly states you are aware.

That all you can state on the topic is that Alex and Jason did not get along well after the ad was put up is very telling. I do hope you can offer a better response to this subject.

 

[W.Wedeking]

After reading all of this kids smart-alek comments that show a total lack of concern for the fact that he misrepresented this animal, I highly doubt that he has been traumatized.

He sounds more like just a beligerant teenager. (I know, I've had 2)

 

[abi2020]

Response to Alex Hues.

Hello Alex. I am very sorry for the taunting and trouble this has caused you. And no, I had no idea any of this was going on until yesterday when Rob from RK Reptiles told me about this site. Yes, Jason is old enough to know better. And I am going to have my husband speak with his father about the seriousness of all of this. But at 16... you know the rest. You cannot tell a 16 year old anything because they know everything.. if you know what I mean. I am only responding to this site to clarify anything that may have been mis-interpreted from my first posting. If I make a comment about the misrepresentation of the animal this thread will go on forever and there will be no closure. I am sure there are people out there who are reading this just waiting for me voice a strong opinion so they can jump in. Please understand, I am merely stating that both issues on this thread have been addressed and taken care of. That is what I believe the ultimate goal should be and is probably the purpose of this forum. Maybe I am wrong. Hopefully most will agree. I wish everyone here well and God Bless. Thanks for your previous kind response Alex. Sincerely, Abigail G.

 

[screamdreams]

So...

B & T are behind this "pastel" garbage?? I see there ads all the time. Here's a few ads they have up now:

I NEED PRICES ON BALL PYTHONS 5 LOTS 10 LOTS OR WHAT EVER YOU HAVE DONT NEED HIGH SNAKES JUST NORMALS OR HIGH YELLOW AND I NEED THESE AT WHOLESALE PRICES GURANTEE EATING

and another,

LOOKING FOR TRACK THAT THE GLASS SLIDES FOR CAGE DOORS IN NEED IT IN LONG PIECES OR WERE I CAN GET IT FROM CANT FIND IN HAREWARE STORES PLEASE EMAIL ASAP WILL ORDER AS SOON AS I GET PRICES PLEASE HELP I NEED ASAP AND STILL LOOKING FOR HEAT TAPE PLEASE EMAIL

and another,

I NEED HEAT TAPE BY THE ROLL PLEASE EMAIL WITH SIZES AND PRICES ON THE HEAT TAPE EMAIL ASAP

one more,

I NEED PRICES ON LOTS OF LEOPARD GECKOS PLEASE EMAIL WITH PRICES HOW MANY AND SIZE

and just one more,

I NEED YOUR DRAGONS WHAOLESALE PRICES ONLY DONT NEED COLORS BUT IF YOU HAVE THEM I WILL BUY ALL NORMALS AND COLORS PLEASE EMAIL WITH PRICES COLORS ALSO LOOKING FOR SUB-ADULT TO ADULT AND PAIRS PLEASE SEND ME PRICES ASAP NEED THESE DRAGONS LIKE YESTERDAY

Sorry, but IMHO these ads just don't sound like they were posted by "Ball Python Experts" by any means, and to tell you the truth -I've posted for years, and have only recently noticed they're company name on KS. If I remember correctly, most of their ads have the "GREAT DEAL" tag at the end of each subject line. Then you click to open, and never seem to see any pics, their descriptions seem to read pretty vague - and I myself, just find it very hard to believe that they're experts on any level.

 

[HerpVenue]

The Herp Fauna Pastel 2003 animal