Bad Guy BEWARE Of doing business with Kathryn Fasano Keller & Chris Keller

[Lindsey Ponder]

Hello, On Monday October 14,2013 my husband and I won a Facebook Auction what was supposed to be 1.1 pair of Fire Ball Pythons, They also asked if we wanted a normal ball python we said if it was a female sure if a male NO we did NOT want or need a male and did not want it. They said it was indeed a female and would include it free to charge..

On Saturday October 19th,2013 we received confirmation and tracking number that would include as stated in shipment to be delivered on October 22,2013 was supposed to be 1.0 fire, 0.1 fire, and 0.1 normal and was EVEN stated so in this confirmation message we received..

On October 22,2013 we received the snakes, however did not get around to sexing them until Saturday October 26,2013. ALL 3 of these snakes are MALES(with picture proof of markings as well as hemi-penes). We had 4 well known Ball python breeders sex these 3 snakes and all 3 state they are in fact males(see pictures,clearly males)

The same day we contacted Chris and his wife Kathryn Keller, to let them know the problem. They stated we could send the one fire back that was for sure a "female"(They still don't believe they are ALL Males,I guess! When they know what they sent) and PAY for shipping to send the snake back and they would exchange it with a "female" and we would need to pay return shipping. I told her I would not do that as we did not screw up and it is their fault and they needed to refund the $$ or send me what we paid for and that was not 3 MALES! She said well I stand firm and if you change your mind let us know..

Kathryn has since blocked me, Reported me on FB to get my ads off so others don't know how bad of a scammer they are, and keep doing so.. So I have came here to share with everyone do please beware if doing business with these people..

I have ALL contact between my husband/my self as well as Chris and his wife from the time of purchase until they blocked me if more proof is needed I would be happy to post that as well. Thank you.

 

[Lucille]

Lindsey, please post the emails, and let them know that this thread is up.
How did you pay? If your credit card was involved, I suggest calling your bank.
If they indeed misrepresented the sex of the snakes in my opinion they should for sure replace at no cost to you and should pay shipping back if they want one of the fire males back.

 

[Lindsey Ponder]

All Messages are attached here.

Conversation started October 14
Chris Keller
10/14, 8:10pm
Chris Keller

What is your zip code so I can let you know how much shipping will be? We use reptile express.
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 8:12pm
Leo Ponder II

hello, as soon as my wife gets home she will send payment on both snakes. thanks again
Chris Keller
10/14, 8:15pm
Chris Keller

Ok. Before she sends payment I will need tryout zip code so I can include the charge for shipping in the price. We should be able to ship both in the same package for you.

Also, you'll have to let me know what day and time you will be available to sign for the package.
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 8:16pm
Leo Ponder II

ok thank you our zip is 43125
Chris Keller
10/14, 8:28pm
Chris Keller

Shipping is $48
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 8:28pm
Leo Ponder II

ok you can ship tomorrow if you can she will be home all day wend. will send payment tonight
Chris Keller
10/14, 8:28pm
Chris Keller

So it's $148.00
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 8:28pm
Leo Ponder II

ok will do
Chris Keller
10/14, 8:30pm
Chris Keller

This is my paypal: [email protected]
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 8:31pm
Leo Ponder II

ok thank you
Chris Keller
10/14, 8:33pm
Chris Keller

I'll throw in a 2013 normal (@ no additional charge) also if you want
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 8:34pm
Leo Ponder II

wow cool m or f and what are they all eating again?
Chris Keller
10/14, 8:36pm
Chris Keller

They are all eating rat pinkies and a little bit bigger

Idk I haven't sexed the normals
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 8:40pm
Leo Ponder II

ok we thank you for all three snakes
Chris Keller
10/14, 8:40pm
Chris Keller

My wife just told me it takes 2-3 days for PayPal to clear. I can ship for Friday.
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 8:46pm
Leo Ponder II

just ship on Monday fedex doesn't ship reptiles on weekends here. should only ship mon thru wend
Chris Keller
10/14, 8:47pm
Chris Keller

Ok cool that works
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 10:18pm
Leo Ponder II

She sent payment
Chris Keller
10/14, 10:24pm
Chris Keller

Ok thanks I'll let you know when it clears
Leo Ponder II
10/14, 10:27pm
Leo Ponder II

Ok thank you
October 15
Chris Keller
10/15, 8:48am
Chris Keller

What is the address you would like me to ship to?
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 8:50am
Leo Ponder II

Lindsey Ponder - 3999 Nile Ave. ,Groveport , Ohio 43125
October 15
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 6:39pm
Leo Ponder II

What was the pairing for these babies
Chris Keller
10/15, 6:40pm
Chris Keller

It was odd male fire to a pin

Would it work for you if I ship on Thursday ?

I'll send you a pic of the fire and pin in a min
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 6:44pm
Leo Ponder II

Ok would say yes but i work all day and my wife will not be here on thursday or friday to get the package
Chris Keller
10/15, 6:45pm
Chris Keller

Ok so I'll ship on Monday that's good?
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 6:46pm
Leo Ponder II

Only way it would work you would have to ship tonight for tomorrow del. Or monday sorry
Chris Keller
10/15, 6:46pm
Chris Keller

Ok that's cool Monday works
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 6:46pm
Leo Ponder II

Ok monday is good

Sorry
Chris Keller
10/15, 6:50pm
Chris Keller

This is the dad

Leo Ponder II

Very nice that will work

If you want pics of all of our snakes are on our page royal legacy reptiles. If you want to check them out
Chris Keller
10/15, 7:02pm
Chris Keller

Ok cool here is a pic of your boy
Chris Keller
10/15, 7:03pm
Chris Keller

He will be nice when he gets older

Chris Keller

Here is your female I love the spot on her back
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 7:15pm
Leo Ponder II

Wow she is really nice too, man hope the normal is female have a nice dinker or cin to put it with
Chris Keller
10/15, 7:16pm
Chris Keller

I just poped the normal and it is
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 7:16pm
Leo Ponder II

Sweet
Chris Keller
10/15, 7:17pm
Chris Keller

Here is my hold back I got 1 firepin from the clutch
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 7:19pm
Leo Ponder II

Wow i want one that is bad love how bright it is
Chris Keller
10/15, 7:21pm
Chris Keller

Yeah she is really nice

Do you want one more normal from the same clutch? I need the room
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 7:26pm
Leo Ponder II

How much
Chris Keller
10/15, 7:26pm
Chris Keller

Idk 10

I'll send you a pic
Chris Keller
10/15, 7:28pm
Chris Keller

Chris Keller

Really nice pattern in that one
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 7:30pm
Leo Ponder II

I would say yes but i have to check with the boss first.
Chris Keller
10/15, 7:31pm
Chris Keller

Lol I know how that is just let me know b4 Monday
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 7:32pm
Leo Ponder II

Ok will do i will ask her as soon as she gets home and show her the pic too
Chris Keller
10/15, 7:32pm
Chris Keller

Cool
Leo Ponder II
10/15, 8:52pm
Leo Ponder II

I just talked to my wife on the phone she said if that other normap is deff a female we will take it. But if not will will just do the three we are aleeady getting she said dont really need another male that will not be used for anything.
October 19
Chris Keller
10/19, 2:32pm
Chris Keller

Leo & Lindsey,

Hello, this is Kate, Chris's wife. I wanted to let you know your all set for a Tuesday October 22nd delivery.

Estimated delivery time is 10:30 am. Someone needs to be there to sign for the package. Their estimated delivery time is pretty dang accurate. Please send Chris a text when you've received your package.

I attached a picture of your shipping label. Your tracking # is 7969 5308 2026. Chris will be dropping the package at Fed Ex on Monday evening no later than 5 p.m. so you can start tracking anytime after that.

The other normal that you and Chris spoke about is a male so he won't be sending him along.

Your shipment will include: 1.0 fire 0.1 fire 0.1 normal

Congrats again on winning the auction.

We will be posting some new snakes to the auction site so keep your eyes open for them. Best of luck and happy breeding! -Kate Keller

October 19
Leo Ponder II
10/19, 11:00pm
Leo Ponder II

Thank you will pm you when they get here
Monday
Chris Keller
10/21, 4:13pm
Chris Keller

Next stop your house

Leo Ponder II

Cant wait thanks again
Saturday
Leo Ponder II
10/26, 10:10am
Leo Ponder II

Hey we have a real big problem!!! Just sexed these snakes to make sure and all are males.. need to know what you want to do to fix this? Thanks

(NO REPLY FROM CHRIS- but he DID View it!)

I Lindsey Ponder sent e-mail to his Wife Kathryn Keller right away..

Conversation started Saturday
Lindsey Ponder
10/26, 10:28am
Lindsey Ponder

Hello, wanted to let you know the 3 snakes are all males. Wanted to see what you would like to do?? Please let us know. Thank you
Saturday
Kathryn Fasano Keller
10/26, 2:19pm
Kathryn Fasano Keller

Hi Lindsey, I saw your post on the old auction. In the future if you need anything please contact me directly/privately via facebook so I get the message immediately.

To clarify, you won a female and a male fire in the auction. Both were sexed using a probe.

The normal was free. We did not charge you anything for him or anything extra to ship him. My husband Chris spoke with Leo regarding that transaction.

What snake are you questioning the sex of and how are you determining their sex?

The fire with the circle on its back is the female.
Lindsey Ponder
10/26, 2:31pm
Lindsey Ponder

Hello, No problem. Yes, We won what was supposed to be male and female fires.BOTH are males- They have been popped by myself, My good friend as well as another VERY well known Breeder Pat Carson and Bob Pitt. ALL 3 snakes we got are males. You said you would give the normal for free, I told Leo I didn't want or need it unless it was female. He said this one was female, and you wouldn't include the other as it was a male. I don't care about the normal other then I didn't want it as it is just something to take up space that I did not need.. My concern is the Fires both being males.
Kathryn Fasano Keller
10/26, 2:35pm
Kathryn Fasano Keller

Considering that they're still hatchlings I suggest probing them. When they're that small, popping isn't that reliable. Regarding the normal, Leo told Chris that he'd take it either way. Sorry about the confusion!! Once you probe them, give me a shout
Lindsey Ponder
10/26, 2:39pm
Lindsey Ponder

Kathryn, No mistaking Hemi-penes, they are males. If you choose not to do anything that will be on you. Feel free to Message Bob Pitt and Pat Carson, They both popped both hemi-penes out. I'll have them probed but it won't change anything. Popping is reliable on hatchlings.
Kathryn Fasano Keller
10/26, 2:50pm
Kathryn Fasano Keller

I could ship you another female fire. Or you can ship the one with the circle on its on it back to me & I will gladly refund you the $75.

Either way you'll have to ship the fire with the circle on its back to me at your cost.

We've never an issue before. We've always probed and it's very accurate.
Lindsey Ponder
10/26, 2:54pm
Lindsey Ponder

Ship the fire female since that is what i paid for. I'm not paying any additional to ship something I didn't screw up on..
Kathryn Fasano Keller
10/26, 2:57pm
Kathryn Fasano Keller

The fire that I sent to you all ready is a female! If you want a different one then you will need to send that one back to me
Lindsey Ponder
10/26, 2:58pm
Lindsey Ponder

Lol okay whatever none of these are females... im not being out more money on YOUR screw up.. but thanks anyway.
Kathryn Fasano Keller
10/26, 3:00pm
Kathryn Fasano Keller

Ok. For me to ship you another snake with out you returning the one in question is an unreasonable request. If you change your mind please let me know and I'd be happy to send you another female. Have a good one
Lindsey Ponder
10/26, 3:02pm
Lindsey Ponder

It wouldn't be an Unreasonable request if you would have sent what you were supposed to send!!!! WHY should I have to spend MORE money on your FUCK UP??. I'll take note to your screw up in that case. you have a good one as well.
Kathryn Fasano Keller
10/26, 3:06pm
Kathryn Fasano Keller

It would cost me more to ship another one to you, lol.
Lindsey Ponder
10/26, 3:08pm
Lindsey Ponder

Yep, But YOU Screwed up on what we were supposed to be given. It isn't OUR fault so why should we have to pay? Again, Good luck selling whatever you have left. Thanks again
Kathryn Fasano Keller
10/26, 3:09pm
Kathryn Fasano Keller

I'm sorry you feel that way. Hope you have a good day

You cannot reply to this conversation. Either the recipient's account was disabled or its privacy settings don't allow replies. (She BLOCKED ME!)

 

[RoyalPythonPros]

Given the name and town, I believe this is Chris' fauna account. He hasn't been active since the day he signed up back on 4/28/13 but I still sent him a message regarding this thread.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?u=125496

 

[HadesBP18]

I'm not a big shot breeder, but I do know how to pop Ball Pythons and looking at those pics those were pretty obviously hemipenes. Did you send those photos to the Kellars? I know you can't now, but the proof before might have been enough to persuade them that they could've possibly made a mistake.

Were you refusing to send the Fire male (supposed female) back or just refusing to pay the shipping? In which case I'm on board with the latter. You should not have to pay for return shipping on an animal that was missexed or pay shipping for the replacement. From reading the emails though, I feel like the breeder thought you were refusing to send the Fire back at all which was why they were being a little hostile. Do they have any type of TOS on their Facebook you can refer to?

 

[SobekSerpents]

In my experince, when a seller or breeder refuses to make good on something like this without having a battle it usually means that they knew before hand that they were sending you exactly what you got. When an honest seller or breeder makes a mistake they're the ones to jump at the chance to make it right without giving their buyer anymore stress than they already have.

My guess is that they knew that they sent you all males. Of course there is the odd chance that they do not know how to properly sex a snake, but if that is the case they should have been honest enough to tell you that they probably goofed.

Based on the snakes themselves though, I'd rather pay for shipping than have all males....

 

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I just made a post about this on my Facebook and ALREADY it has 11 shares. I hope it helps spread the word and that these people grow up and handle this like adults.

 

[treeboa]

Chris, I think you're right. I bet they knew they were all males. If you paid with Paypal you should probably not even try getting your money back through them. All they care about is that you received snakes, regardless that they're the wrong ones. If you paid with a credit card, whether through Paypal or not, a chargeback with them may work. They sometimes rule like Paypal, but I know several people who have been successful going that route. You usually have to send the snake or snakes back, though.

 

[Manny]

Looking at the Pics it looks like a female to me. Hemipenis are longer. Female balls exhibit the musk glands when poped. Try poping the male and see the difference.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Yes can you get better pics that are clear. Some times females Scent glands when small can resemble small hemipenes to untrained eye.

Its happens to the best of us, a male holds them in and then you think female!

 

[jdsnake1]

You should probably have some one who knows how probe the snakes that way you can be 100 % sure of there sex popping is a quick way but can be inaccurate as other's have mention

 

[Lindsey Ponder]

Chris has sent refund...

Chris has decided to refund what we paid for a "female" fire. The snakes have been popped by 4 different Ball Python breeders as well as probed by one, ALL have YEARS of experience and 3 are WELL known and trusted. They all were about 7-8 scales.. This is over, even though we would have liked to have a female, I am satisfied with the refund and will re-sell these males. I also, did not want to pay for return shipping, I would have sent back if they paid return shipping, and took the chance they would have actually sent me a female the next time..They knew what they gave me, or else would have seeked out and not blocked me to make it right. Thanks for everyone's opinion and help.

Lindsey

 

[jdsnake1]

Well if they where all probed male than they are had to mess up probing if it shows male