Beware of Jeane Best & Wendy Childs

[VanZwedenReptiles]

Wow lots of Confusion going on here,the Animals were shipped UP's and i would do business with Lynn,forsure she gets a thumbs up!,Now were is the Vet report and why is it taking so long for Wendy to post it here.Lynn said she never received it from Wendy.And from what i see in the Pictures Her Animals look Great.Isn't coccidia a single celled parasite that sucks on the walls of the intestines of it's host?..Lynn said she had her animals checked and there nell and void of parasites,and wouldn't it take a large amount of coccidious to bring an Animal to its Death?.....Wendy lets see that Vet report.from a true vet,not just hearsay,,Dam will it ever end

Greg VanZweden
http://www.vanzwedenreptiles.com/

Forever Trust in What You Are and Nothing Else Matters

 

[VanZwedenReptiles]

Jim, if you're saying in your last post that you've, spoken to, or been in contact with, Wendy's vet. Maybe even seen the report and verified that the gecko was sick as described, and that it was Lynn's gecko, as verified by the date of examination, then I'll apologize right now and happily.

Rite on Keven,No one could have said that Better

Greg VanZweden
http://www.vanzwedenreptiles.com/

 

[ReptileAddictions]

Emails.

Posting as requested. Also including the fact I was charged $40 for FED EX shipping. I got 5 packages in two days on the 11th and 12th. I no longer have any of them to confirm who or when.If the USPS package is indeed the one, I would like the refunded difference of $21.20 that was not charged by USPS and not agreed to.

From: "Lynn Whipple" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Crested Geckos
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:01:30 -0400
Jeane,
I'm sending this email through hotmail because I
have a feeling that my OSU account isn't working.
I sent out an email yesterday stating that I had
shipped the geckos out to you. I sent them through
a PakMail in Columbus, Ohio, via Fed-Ex. The way it
works is, they send you a tracking number through email
when the package is picked up. Well, I never received
the email. I waited until late, and then finally sent
you an email concerning this problem later in the
evening... and informing you that they were on their
way.
I didn't receive any word today that you have received
them, so I'm worried.
I did finally just get your email that you send early
this morning asking if the geckos had been shipped---thus
the reason I believe my OSU email is screwed up, possibly
many hours delayed. Their server sucks... and I apologize for
all this trouble!!!!
Please let me know as soon as possible if you have received
these guys... I'm really worried now that either the email
with the tracking number didn't get through, or the package
never got shipped for some reason. Either way, if you haven't
received them by tomorrow, I need to start making some phone
calls.
Again, I'm sorry for all the trouble... and
hope this email reaches you. Please let me know if
they've arrived as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Lynn

From: "Jeane BEST" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 04:34:50 -0700

Lynn.

I have sent a few emails. So you are
correct it must be your account. I never
got any word from you on shipping but they
Did arrive today.
They are safe and sound. Very scared though I have left
them be to settle in.
The yellow one is very thin though. Her hipbones
Protrude a bit. Has she not been a good eater? Or did
She just grow out a bit? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks so much,
Jeane Best & Wendy Childs

www.freewebs.com/dragonlady99212

From: "Lynn Whipple" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Wed, 12
Jul 2006 12:03:55 -0400

Jeane,
I'm so glad they made it! I've noticed that Jane has
been going through a growing spurt... though the reason she weighed in so
light was because she didn't eat many mealworms the day before I shipped.
I'm sooooo sorry about the email account. Guess
I've learned my lesson as to which account to use from now on.
Thanks for letting me know,
Lynn


From: "Jeane BEST"
[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:46:47 -0700

Jane,
The vet was here today to collect 2 geckos
I received dead on arrival. I had her look at these 2 in quarantine. Now I
don’t want you to get upset with what she said. I just really need to
know what was going on there in order to help them.
But I am going to need to know what and when you where feeding and
watering them. What, how often, how much in amounts, ect. Bugs?
Baby food? Crested gecko diets? Vitamins? The best schedule you can
give me. They are both at least 15 grams underweight, and Jane
is emaciated (sp). I do not think she is going to make it
through the night.
I got schooled in looking at certain things and understanding
what they mean besides the tailbones that were so clear to me.
Her head top is caved in meaning lack of nutrients (calcium
especially). Her eye sockets are sunken. Basically once she showed me he exam.
Skin pinch, ect. She doesn’t have 1 gram of fat on her.
Right now she is in there gasping. If I turn her over she makes no
attempted to right herself. Once in a while she shakes her
head violently. I am photo documenting it all. I called
the vet. She thinks she will be dead within the hour and that there
is nothing I can do The best she could tell me is either she
is starved to death, or they have been consumed with a serious
case of worms that ate everything she consumed and let her have
nothing. She hasn’t defecated for us to do a fecal float to test yet. She hasn’t
eaten much either.
Now not eating for 24hrs isn’t going to make or break her. This is more of a long-term problem.
The other young lady is about 75% of the way to Janes condition.
Again, where they not eating? Having diarrhea? Anything you can
tell me that I can pass on to the vet that may help.

Thanks
so much,
Jeane Best & Wendy Childs
www.freewebs.com/dragonlady99212


From: "Lynn Whipple" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:49:12 0400

Jeane,

This news really
bothers me. Both girls were fine the afternoon
I sent them out. I had Jane out and was letting her crawl
around... she was my favorite girl.

Here was their feeding schedule: Monday: mealworms
dusted with D3/Calcium. Tueday: nothing. Wednesday: Clark's
Gargoyle Diet for the extra nutriets). Thursday: left over Clark's.
Friday: more mealworms. I kept this pattern and sprayed them
down twice a day.
I before I shipped them, and there was poo in each of the cages the day I
shipped them... so I know they were eating (I can send you
pics of their cages if you would like... I still have them set up exactly as
they were).
I, too, noticed Jane's hips protruding a bit, but she's been
growing and I thought perhaps this was the reason (she hadn't
been eating more than usual, however). Neither of these girls are
adult geckos. They are still too young to breed, thus their
smaller sizes.
Please keep me up to date on them. Like I said, Jane was
one of my faves and it really worries me to hear this. Could
she have been >bumped around too much from the shipping? Or be
completely stressed out (I've heard stories of geckos experiencing extreme
weight loss from stress)? Please let me know.
Lynn

From: "Jeane BEST" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:34:34 -0700

Lynn,
She passed last night. Sorry. I did all I could. Geckos can
Get stressed from shipping. They wont eat and or get diarrhea
Causing the weight loss. They are doing neither. But it is not
Possible for a gecko to loose upwards of 10 grams in 24 to 48 hours.
Something is wrong. Her weight was at 9 grams. Very low for her
Length. Average should have been about 20-24 grams. Usually the
Stress cause the levels of Cocciddia to raise, which is a natural
Bacteria that would get to critical levels that can
make them very sick after about a week and a half, 2 weeks.
She was crawling around a bit here also. She was no
where near as active as she should have been. No jumping and what
not. Like I told you after the initial photo, then a good nights
rest here, I took her out to photograph her again and was looking
her over real well. That’s when I emailed you the first time with
the weight concerns.

I'll pass on your feeding schedule to her. Even though
I consider it a lower amount of food than mine eat, I am not sure if
that is the issue. How many meallie worms do they eat a day? What size?
How much Clarks? With water? Or baby food? I feed my
juvis baby food with clarks and crickets, roaches, silkworms, and a
bowl of mealies daily till they are 14 months old. Then they get clarks
daily and bugs every other day. Each juvi eats about a 1/2
teaspoon of clarks and 6 to 8 bugs a day up to about 7=8 grams then hey
double that amount of clarks but still only eat 6 to 8 bigger
bugs, till about 15 grams they level off to about a table spoon of
clarks and 6 big bugs. Once they topple over a year it depends on if
they are producing eggs and are male of female. They are on
auto misters 2 X a day for 4 minutes and they have fresh water bowls
daily they drink from.

I can send her to WSU for a necropsy if you’d like. They are in the
top 3 in the country for veterinary schools, that’s where my
vet graduated from. She is a reptile specialist. I don’t
know how many others you have or intend to sell, but you might want to
know if something is wrong. I had them quarantined. So I
worry about the other one, I am not concerned about the rest of the
colony. Their fees are only about 48. $ And overnight express is
18.00. I have her in the fridge. Let me know.

For now though I guess it is up to you to decide
how you want to handle this. I am already into her for an additional
25.00 since the vet was already here she didn’t charge me a call,
just an exam fee. She tried to float a swab of her tooshy with no
luck so that was only $5 instead of a full fecal float would have been $15.00.
How did $190 shipped break down? $75 each and $40 shipping? Assuming that is right
I would just ask that you cover the cost of the animal itself in refund. I am
not asking you pay my vet fees. That was my choice.

Try to absorb all this and get back to me soon. Its best
to get her sent out soon if wanted. Monday for Tue exam.
The sooner they have it the better. Just let me know.
Thanks so much,
Jeane Best & Wendy Childs
www.freewebs.com/dragonlady99212


From: "Lynn Whipple" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:02:39 -0400

Jeane,
Please read my terms of sale on my website:
http://buckeyegecko.com/terms.htm
I need CLEAR photographic proof that the dead
gecko is mine by tomorrow. Please let me know ASAP. Thanks,
Lynn

From: "Jeane BEST" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 23:21:32 -0700

I didn’t hear back from you since I sent the photos. I
thought I would check in before midnight. But I guess you will
get back to me tomorrow.....

Thanks so much,
Jeane Best
www.freewebs.com/rivercityreptiles
Wendy Childs
www.freewebs.com/crazycresties

From:"Lynn Whipple" [email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:33:25 -0400

Jeane,
I wanted some time to think about things, which is why I
didn't get back to you yesterday. Hold off on the necropsy
for now...
I'm not worried about my other geckos being infected. I keep
them all in their own seperate containers. However, if
something happens to the other, please let me know immediately,
and we'll send her off to get tested.
As for the refund: the gecko's death technically happened
outside the three day guarentee and I found out about it outside
the three day guarentee. However, I have my own guilt to deal
with. I would like to send you $50. This covers half the cost of the
gecko, plus half the cost of the vet bill as you told me.
Please let me know if this is acceptable to you.
Thanks,
Lynn


From: "Jeane BEST" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:47:47 -0700

You lost me Lynn. I recieved 3 packages on the 11th. NOT Them.
I received them on the 12th and sent an email out telling you
she was very thin(Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:01:30 -0400) within
4 hours of arrival.
Then on the 13th I emailed you that the vet had been here
and I didn’t think she would make it through the night(Date: Thu,
13 Jul 2006 22:46:47 -0700). 31 hours from arrival.
Shed died technically on the 14th very early am and I emailed in
the afternoon telling you I have the photos.(Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006
16:34:34 -0700) 49 hours from arrival. How is that outside your 3 days
guarantee?
If I count days it is 3. If I count hours it is within 49 almost
not counting minutes.
Thanks so much,
Jeane Best
www.freewebs.com/rivercityreptiles
Wendy Childs
www.freewebs.com/crazycresties

From: "Lynn Whipple" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:28:18 -0400

Jeane,
I sent them out to you on Monday. They were overnighted and you told
me you received them on Tuesday. This puts them at four days...
Lynn


From: "Jeane BEST" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:34:00 -0700

Lynn please see below. You stated on the 12the you sent them
yesterday" I emailed on the 12th stating I did in fact get them
today".Both our emails are clearly time stamped.

YOURS: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:01:33 -0700 Received: from 207.46.8.251 by
by118fd.bay118.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;Wed, 12 Jul
2006 07:01:30 GMT
Jeane,
I'm sending this email through hotmail because I have feeling
that my OSU account isn't working. I sent out an email yesterday
stating that I had shipped the geckos out to you.

MINE:
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 04:34:50 -0700
Lynn. I have sent a few emails. So you are correct it must
be your account. I never got any word from you on shipping
but they did arrive today. They are safe and sound.


Either way. I'd have to say I wouldn’t be satisfied with anything
less than a full refund on Jane. The vet has analyzed the
remaining gecko and she has 2 types of parasitic worms (an extremely
heavy load) and a high level of cocciddia. Seperate cages or not.
There is an issue. They didn’t get these conditions over night.
Or here for that matter.
I made you aware of Jane poor weight and condition upon
her arrival. I also emailed you as soon as the vet examined her
and let you know that it was unlikely she would survive the night,
which she didn’t. I was unable to sit up with her all night or else I
would have emailed sooner. But I kept you aware of the situation.

Technically 3 days would be 72 hours in a legal terminology
, as a civil court would see it. Which I was still within.
Considering what I have now spent in vet fees I loose all the way around.
I don’t see where I am out of line. I have spent more than $75. now
in the care for the remaining gecko and am sure to have to spend
more. This certainly was NOT what I expected.

Thanks so much,

Jeane Best
www.freewebs.com/rivercityreptiles

Wendy Childs

www.freewebs.com/crazycresties


From: "Lynn Whipple" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Crested Geckos
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:15:18 -0400

Jeane,
I'm putting some money on a credit card today. As soon as it
posts on the credit card, you'll have your money---$75.
Lynn

15 days later after 2 more emails went unreplied to I filed a paypal claim.

 

[ladywhipple02]

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You lost me Lynn. I recieved them on the 12th and sent an email out telling you she was very thin(Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:01:30 -0400) within 4 hours of arrival

Then on the 13th I emailed you that the vet had been here and I didnt think she would make it through the night(Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:46:47 -0700). 31 hours from arrival.

Shed died technically on the 14th very early am and I emailed in the afternoon telling you I have the photos.(Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:34:34 -0700) 49 hours from arrival

How is that outside your 3 days guarantee? If I count days it is 3. If I count hours it is within 49 almost not counting minutes."


You added a few words to this one. None of this explains why you lied to me about receiving them on the 12th, when you really received them on the 11th. This is why I was upset. This is what started it all... when I told you that the death had fallen outside the TOS, but that I would STILL give you more than half of the cost of the gecko, you lied. I have paid you the full amount now, despite that.

.

 

[ladywhipple02]

Here is the ONE email I received:

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I just thought I would check in since it has been about a week. Any idea when you are going to refund? We are shutting down the paypal account that goes to this email address. We have a new Paypal account . I am not sure if you need that address, or my mailing address?"

As I have stated before---and as I have emailed you three times about Jeane ---this is the email that I was confused about. I was waiting for her to send me the new email address, assuming she would. Yes, I made an ass out of myself. I have apologized for it THREE times now in emails sent to you. I will apologize again... I'm sorry, Jeane and Wendy, for assuming that you were sending me the email address and for waiting so long to send you the money.

 

[kmurphy]

What I don't get...

If the package arrived on the 12th. Then why was it signed for on the 11th. Wendy stated herself that it arrived the same day as Erik's, which was the 11th.
So evidently there was never an internal exam done on the gecko that died. The surviving gecko was underweight and had parasites on the 17th yet it is listed for sale in their web site. Seems quick to me but I really don't know too much about geckos.
I apologize to Jim on the vet report thing, not to Wendy yet. I can see where the seller would have to ask for the report on the remaining gecko, and there never was one on the dead one, per the seller's request.

 

[ladywhipple02]

The arrival pic was taken on 07/13/06 at 10:19 pm.

The dead gecko pic was taken 07/15/06 at 11:42 am.

They were both taken with a Canon Digital Rebel XT and they were processed with Adobe Photoshop 7.0. Photoshop was probably used to reduce the size.

She skipped this email, too:
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I will spare you all the in between pics. Here is when she arrived thin. I also have the arrival of the other.And in the deli cup in the fridge. As you can see she is a bit decomposed/sucked in looking.More so than when she was alive. This happens very quickly after death. This pic is several hours after death. She passed after I finally went to bed at 4 am ish. I discovered her at 10am.

I didnt just send them before. I didnt know if you would want to see them."

The arrival pic wasn't taken on the 11th, or the 12th, but on the 13th.

 

[ladywhipple02]

Ahhh crap, I got dragged into defending myself... when there is nothing to defend.

Wendy and Jeane have their money. They have my gecko. Jane---the dead gecko---was one of my faves and it really did shake me to see her dead.

I have actually mentioned this in passing to a couple people---Morgana and Jim---that I am reevaluating my place in the gecko world. After this mess of a transaction, I'm not really sure I want to get into this business at the moment. I work two jobs and go to school full time, plus take care of all my animals (snakes and geckos and fish and cat)... but these aren't excuses. I made FAR too many mistakes with this transaction, as I have stated in previous posts, and thus the reason I refunded the money.

I have sold all my remaining geckos, excluding one male who is deformed and will stay with me as a pet. I may get back into this after I graduate---but not for awhile afterward. I have taken a step back... what more would you ask from me?

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Ahhh crap, I got dragged into defending myself... when there is nothing to defend.

Wendy and Jeane have their money. They have my gecko. Jane---the dead gecko---was one of my faves and it really did shake me to see her dead.

I have actually mentioned this in passing to a couple people---Morgana and Jim---that I am reevaluating my place in the gecko world. After this mess of a transaction, I'm not really sure I want to get into this business at the moment. I work two jobs and go to school full time, plus take care of all my animals (snakes and geckos and fish and cat)... but these aren't excuses. I made FAR too many mistakes with this transaction, as I have stated in previous posts, and thus the reason I refunded the money.

I have sold all my remaining geckos, excluding one male who is deformed and will stay with me as a pet. I may get back into this after I graduate---but not for awhile afterward. I have taken a step back... what more would you ask from me?

Lynn, Don't beat yourself up over this, This kind of thing happens all the time, sometimes its handled quickly, other times well you know the rest. But PLEASE don't go off thinking that because of 1 mix up your world is coming to an end. Its not, Hang around in the long run it will be worth it.

 

[ladywhipple02]

Oh, I don't believe my world is coming to an end, by any means.

I just feel that, if I didn't have so many things on my plate, maybe I would have handled this better... with fewer mistakes. I just need to take a step back and think about some stuff. And get the hell out of college, lol.

I'm still keeping my snakes, still taking in unwanted reptiles... but trying to run my own little business while finishing school (I'm taking 20 credit hours this quarter) and working full time---yeesh! The mistakes showed through...

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I'm stepping back until I can really focus on the business instead of doing it on the side. I don't want mistakes llike this to happen again. I'm not quitting... just taking a break.

 

[ladywhipple02]

Also, don't get me wrong about this... I don't feel I am the only party responsible for making mistakes in this transaction.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I'm stepping back until I can really focus on the business instead of doing it on the side. I don't want mistakes llike this to happen again. I'm not quitting... just taking a break.

I can respect that...We will await your return Good luck with school and all your journeys in life.

 

[Wilomn]

Many have asked for the report, except the one person to whom it mattered. I have made some attempts to get the report in the thread, but the jury is still out on that. It requires the permission of the vet, who looked at a few pages of this thread, and was quite aghast at the conduct observed here ...... imagine that ! The vet does not want her name accessable to posters here. Now that's the BOI I know ! I have contacted an intermediary in the hopes of satisfying the feeding frenzy.

This is complete and utter nonsense. Once you pay for a vet report you can paper your walls with it if you want, it's yours.

Jimbo, you lie again.

At least, hmmmm wonder why jimbo didn't suggest this himself, block out the name, just leave a zip code and date that can be verified. No, no, that may be acceptable and we don't want to do that now, do we?

IF there is a report, post it. I don't think there is. Prove me wrong.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Kevin, its cool.

But lets take Wes' words as an example. I thank you in advance again Wes for the display of "typical Wes". Always right on cue too !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chameleon Company
Many have asked for the report, except the one person to whom it mattered. I have made some attempts to get the report in the thread, but the jury is still out on that. It requires the permission of the vet, who looked at a few pages of this thread, and was quite aghast at the conduct observed here ...... imagine that ! The vet does not want her name accessable to posters here. Now that's the BOI I know ! I have contacted an intermediary in the hopes of satisfying the feeding frenzy.

This is complete and utter nonsense. Once you pay for a vet report you can paper your walls with it if you want, it's yours.

Jimbo, you lie again.

At least, hmmmm wonder why jimbo didn't suggest this himself, block out the name, just leave a zip code and date that can be verified. No, no, that may be acceptable and we don't want to do that now, do we?

IF there is a report, post it. I don't think there is. Prove me wrong.

Now, Wes is right that the patient/client owns the report. But yet he resorts to needing to tell me that "you lie again"..... I do not know if the report will be posted, although I believe efforts are being made to get one final document from the vet before doing so. I believe she examined a half-dozen or more animals, and is trying to consolidate and provide a concise report only on the two cresteds, as well as document a phone conversation where she rendered a medical opinion. Another respected member here has had discussions with me today, at my request, about possibly acting as an intermediary to verify the originals. The vet did look at the thread, saw a few posts, to include one specifically written by Wes I believe, and said "you are not posting my name anywhere near that trash ....". Observant woman ! It is the client's wise choice to thoroughly honor the wishes of the vet, as she frankly carries a bit more clout than you Wes ! Her info will be blacked out if it is posted. The email communications seem to be pretty thorough, concise, and timely, regarding the deal between the buyer and seller ....

So lets see. Wes is not the buyer. Wes is not the seller. Wes is ? Wessy ......... maybe it'll be posted in 24 hours. Maybe 48. Maybe never And if never, then I guess you'll just have to call folks "liars ... whores ... scammers ... thieves ....." Oooops ! Already did that ! Get a thesaurus, and you can work through it.

Challenged of late little rooster ?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Lynn,
I agree that you have nothing to defend. But at the same time, welcome to the free-for-all maelstrom that is the "new" BOI. It has its pathetic moments.
There is one thing I will comment on about your words. I mentioned this in one of our PM's. You have cited the conversation or email about being "lied" to, about being told the animals arrived on the 12th, when tracking info indicates the 11th. And its a "lie" in your book, as you have said several times. OK, two things:

1) You were notified by email late on the 13th that there were serious medical issues with one animal, and that death seemed imminent. 11th or 12th, it doesn't matter with regard to your TOS (we have discussed the "death vs immminent death" obligation already.

2) If the customer has dates of receipt written on a calender, and has either entered the one for your package on the wrong day, or read the wrong one, since it is still within your warrantee time, why does this mistake have to rise to the level of being a lie? If its immaterial, why a lie?

It may be the most often used descriptive noun used in the BOI. I believe I've been called a liar at least three times here in this thread .... maybe more ! There are threads here where in over half the posts on a 10-post page the word LIAR is used. IMO, if I want to look at where to cast doubt in the BOI, look for those who are the first to resort to using the word, not those being called it. Not that someone is not lying, as it happens, but usually its a "pox on both their houses". It does seem like "Chicken Little" around here at times though, where instead of "the sky is falling" ....... you get the point. You don't need to defend ... as you said, I take angles.

 

[shrap]

So lets see. Wes is not the buyer. Wes is not the seller. Wes is

So lets see. Jim is not the buyer. Jim is not the seller. Jim is

Man, you oughta see him go
Twistin' the night away....

 

[Chameleon Company]

Sammy says:

So lets see. Jim is not the buyer. Jim is not the seller. Jim is

Man, you oughta see him go
Twistin' the night away....

And Jim is not demanding to see anything !

Great tune !

 

[Fangthane]

At this point most of this is completely moot. It's clear that Wendy Bianca Trump Childs Iwanow is someone to be avoided on a business level. And on a personal level I wouldn't go near her even with a haz-mat suit on a dare. Fierce loyalty is an admirable quality..but blind devotion to a proven criminal that's going out of her way to deceive and scam the "community" that you're a big part of..well Chamco that makes it a little hard to separate you from those you've chosen to support. After reading this thread..there are probably several names besides Jeane and Wendy that go on the list of people to NEVER do business with. My personal list now includes you. Maybe I'm just another "spineless" member of Wes' fan club..but I'm glad he's back. He seems to have a knack for cutting thru the dazzling displays of BS that some have adopted in leiu of any kind of honest resonse.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Oh well Dan, can't lose what you never had. Shucks.

As for being:

Maybe I'm just another "spineless" member of Wes' fan club..but I'm glad he's back

Accurate self observation, eh ? Maybe when you are mid-50's, you will be where he is now ! By the way, its all eyes wide open Dan.

Sammy, here's an even better verse from Sam Cooke's classic:

Here they have a lot of fun
Puttin' trouble on the run
Man, you find the old and young
Twistin' the night away

 

[Fangthane]

"Accurate self observation, eh ?"
Possibly. Care to turn your high-powered sense of perception inward on yourself? I can admit to my flaws and short-comings. I've yet to see anything bordering on sincerity coming from you. I don't delude myself into thinking I have a chance at winning one of your tit-for-tat post wars full of spin and obscure references(eyes wide open?), nor do I even want to be involved in such a thing. I've said what I believe to be true and can walk away from it now. Sure, you're not gonna lose anything from me and will laugh scornfully at my presumption in implying that you would..but laugh all you want. I see you for what you are and so do quite a few others. Guess that'll have to be my sole consolation for your contempt.