Bad Guy Beware of Jeffery Lockman/John Pennington

[juliasara]

While I'll agree sending this to his boss may not be necessary, imo someone who can lie so many times is not someone I would trust. The lying says something about how he handles things and what kind of person he os. A stand up person most likely would not have lied and if they had once because of being embarrassed after all the evidence posted here would have come clean and apologized for their behavior not continued to lie. I'm sure any business looking to hire someone would agree. If I were hiring someone, his character would not be what I was looking for and I would be thankful I found this thread.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

I've never posted to the forum before, but read it often and have been quite impressed with the way in which the group has outed some real bad guys trying to run a game on our fellow herpers.

The tone and direction of this thread though strikes me as kind of harsh and rather unwarranted.

I don't know why the guy used two different names in the original transaction, people do weird stuff-it doesn't seem like he was doing any kind of scam. He was the buyer and paid up (minus the unfair pay pal charge).

About the lying about the FB friend, etc. Maybe he was embarassed about getting caught in a fib and doubled down on it. Again, I don't think he was trying to rip anyone off.

Talk of sending things out to his employer or taking this further than its already gone strikes me as mean-spirited and rather pointless.

You may not like his responses or his skirting the truth, but I don't see how this thread benefits potential buyers or sellers on Fauna or elsewhere. Just my two cents.

Tom

Even though John is making a fool of himself I will agree that it's taking it too far to contact his employer. I don't think he was trying to scam either which is why his actions here are so pointless.

 

[Fangthane]

You may not like his responses or his skirting the truth, but I don't see how this thread benefits potential buyers or sellers on Fauna or elsewhere. Just my two cents.

I think that the idea that he's only "skirting the truth" is being overly charitable and dismissive of his antics. I don't see how this thread doesn't benefit anyone who understands that people tend to be creatures of habit. There's really no gray area to what's been going on - he chose to continuously lie about something that was extremely obvious to anyone who'd bother to read this thread. IF someone's willing to 'double down' on their lies about something that might have ended up being an insignificant matter - had he offered an explanation that was rational and sensible; had he admitted to having done something stupid and apologized - it's hard to not want to extrapolate that into one's speculation of just how much honesty to expect from him in more serious matters. He completely brought this on himself.

Some people won't care who they sell to, as long as they get their funds; other people will likely see this and decide that any dealings with him are just too risky. I'm rarely very fond of the idea of taking BOI threads and pushing too far into someone's personal life; but if any of his claimed professions are factual, I can't say he's someone who should really have much influence of anyone's formative years. Those who show that they're severely lacking in integrity probably shouldn't be in a position to influence children or other impressionable individuals.

 

[juliasara]

I completely agree Dan, like I've been saying all along, if he's lying about something so trivial I can only imagine everything else he's lying about. To me, it seems like this is only the tip of a very large iceberg. I can't think of a single negative impact this thread would have made had he either not lied or apologized after the first lie, so it really makes no sense why he kept lying. I really think he is a compulsive liar and believes what he says to be true and has convinced himself we all have the problem not him and that we all made everything up to entertain ourselves with the drama. I could be wrong and he could have a totally different reason but at this point I really doubt we will ever know the truth. This thread is a testament to his character and like Dan said if he does work with children he really should find a new profession. As a parent I would not want someone who has such an easy time lying being an influence on my child.

 

[Tomharten]

I'm just not buying it. My sense is that he was just trying to save face and was perhaps worried about future or current employment. unfortunately for him, he dug himself deeper in the process.

To suggest that you can generalize about a person's character by responses on an Internet forum is quite a reach. Especially if the situation isn't about a theft, neglect of an animal, or some dubious business practice that is usually the purview of this group.

As I mentioned before, I've seen some great things accomplished by this group, this thread however, not so much.

 

[Fangthane]

To suggest that you can generalize about a person's character by responses on an Internet forum is quite a reach.

If you haven't seen just the opposite to be true on countless occasions, I suspect you haven't really read many of these threads very closely, after all. To suggest that you can't use someone's own words/actions to gauge their character is foolishly naive.

The BOI is basically predicated on the idea that people's chosen words on a business-related forum should be put on display for all to see and judge them by. If you seriously believe that one's blithe willingness to lie about the little things doesn't give a strong hint as to how he may choose to handle himself in a situation with much more serious consequences, I think you're deluding yourself. I don't think anyone's saying that he absolutely will screw everyone over if given half a chance; we're saying that his own choices have presented him as someone with whom the potential risks are probably better off being avoided.

For those who place value in being forewarned about very real possibilities, threads like this are invaluable. If you want to go out of your way to give documented liars the benefit of the doubt, good luck with that. I'm sure we'll all try to refrain from the obligatory I-told-you-so comments if you bring such a situation here after it blows up in your face.

 

[Lucille]

You may not like his responses or his skirting the truth, but I don't see how this thread benefits potential buyers or sellers on Fauna or elsewhere.

His poor responses and lying are extremely relevant to potential buyers.
If that is how he responds to issues here, that may well be how he will respond if a future buyer has issues.

 

[Tomharten]

Dan- you've gotten your pound of flesh, let it drop. You are starting to come across as rather shrill and a bit of a bully.

Remember that these searches of the Internet for prospective employees cut both ways. If I was a manager and saw someone that I was considering as a hire engaged in piling on and relentless attempts at humiliating someone that made some poor choices, it would definitely give me pause.

You caught the guy in an apparent lie of no consequence to the herp biz, he was embarrassed as many might be, and tried to cover it up. I'm not sure what else you want, other than the last word.

 

[Lucille]

You caught the guy in an apparent lie of no consequence to the herp biz,

1) IP check please
2) If Jeffery/John will lie repeatedly even when faced with proof, change his profile, and be snarky and rude in an issue you characterize as 'no consequence', one could just imagine what he would do if consequential issues arose, either in the herp industry or with the children he works with.

 

[Tomharten]

"1) IP check please?" Sorry, not sure how to use the quote feature on this forum.

If you're suggesting that I'm John or one of his friends, you can save your time. If it's an attempt to intimidate a dissenting voice, that's another hallmark of the witch hunt.

I've been reading the forum for a long time and the tone and direction of this particular thread strikes me as a couple of schoolyard bullies that have discovered someone's embarrassing secret and they are going out of their way to humiliate them.


Keep it going if you like, but I think that it is starting to say more about you than the subject of the thread.

 

[juliasara]

I'm just not buying it. My sense is that he was just trying to save face and was perhaps worried about future or current employment. unfortunately for him, he dug himself deeper in the process.

To suggest that you can generalize about a person's character by responses on an Internet forum is quite a reach. Especially if the situation isn't about a theft, neglect of an animal, or some dubious business practice that is usually the purview of this group.

As I mentioned before, I've seen some great things accomplished by this group, this thread however, not so much.

There are many threads here that aren't about theft, neglect of animals or dubious business practices. A person's character is very revenant to future potential buyers/sellers. Someone who can so easily lie and continue to lie when presented with such damning evidence is not someone I would want to do business with and I'm sure I'm not alone. Anyone who dismisses this behavior and can excuse it might also be someone people choose to aviod. Just because it's the Internet doesn't make it excusable. A good honest person doesn't lie online or in any other format. I understand hiding behind a keyboard makes it easier to be dishonest but it doesn't make it ok. Online or not when someone is put into an uncomfortable situation, how they choose to handle it imo says a whole lot about their character. If I were put into a situation like this and was embarrassed and waneed to save face my first response wouldn't have been to lie or try to cover it up, I would have been humble, sincere and honest, I would have apologized and asked for people's forgiveness. I would not have lied, tried to cover it up or made excuses. Im not saying john is 100% a bad guy or a scammer but he is someone who made mistakes and I believe others should exercise caution when deciding to do business with him.

 

[Lucille]

embarrassing secret.

It is not an 'embarrassing secret', it is lying, followed by rudeness, and an attempt to evade by changing profile.

And you are, as he did, trying to attack the participants in order to take attention away from the lying behavior.
I think readers, whether they be the community or present/future employers, can come to their own conclusions about whether they want to deal with John.

 

[hhmoore]

The tone and direction of this thread though strikes me as kind of harsh and rather unwarranted.

I don't know why the guy used two different names in the original transaction, people do weird stuff-it doesn't seem like he was doing any kind of scam. He was the buyer and paid up (minus the unfair pay pal charge).

About the lying about the FB friend, etc. Maybe he was embarassed about getting caught in a fib and doubled down on it. Again, I don't think he was trying to rip anyone off.

Talk of sending things out to his employer or taking this further than its already gone strikes me as mean-spirited and rather pointless.

You may not like his responses or his skirting the truth, but I don't see how this thread benefits potential buyers or sellers on Fauna or elsewhere. Just my two cents.

Tom

FWIW, Tom, I agree entirely.

1) IP check please

For what reason, Lucille? Because he doesn't agree with some of the things that have been posted?
<snark alert>Hmmm...it can't be a coincidence that this thread was started in 12/13 and Tom's account was registered in the same month. Maybe John created the Tom account, fully planning on resurrecting this thread nearly two years after the time that anybody was concerned with it. He's just been biding his time, with two unused accounts, waiting to fight the good fight to clear his name. </snark>
On a more serious note, Tom's comments have been pretty reasonable. Maybe he IS a friend of John's...maybe he's simply choosing to be the voice of logic in this particular thread. Does it really matter? This thread originally died out within 2 days, with just under a full page of posts. Since Mr Pennington first posted - again, two days - we're into 5th page of new posts. (40 posts per page, of course - I don't understand how people can stand to look at the BOI at 5 or 10 posts per page). All because the guy allegedly used a dummy email account. Personally, yes, I think he used a different account...but, the seller didn't care about it during the transaction - it isn't as if things came to a screeching halt when the payment came from a different name.
This whole thread was started because Mr Pennington balked at being charged the PayPal fee AFTER he had made payment. I would have done the same thing; and I suspect that most of the readers would, as well. I don't think one person made an issue of the two names back then - everybody was jumping on the OP because he was wrong to charge the fee in that manner.
I understand the concerns over the two names; but this was the buyer...and, bailing on the deal was justified.
He initially came off as a bit of a pompous , so I can understand the desire to knock him down a few pegs over that...but, at this point, the horse is dead & well beaten.
I'm not calling for a cessation of posting - that decision will be up to each individual - but, I will ask that people at least consider their reasons for continuing this thread.

 

[markpulawski]

All I can say is the amount of rhetoric in this thread makes me believe I missed something far more egregious, talks of going to employers and threatening a person's ability to take care of their families seems way out of line IMO.

John opening this back up was a giant mistake unless you can miraculously prove you did not write those emails, short of that apologize and let it die.

Lucille I agree with most if not all of what Tom has said and I don't see that as an attack on those participating, it is an observation that this has gone way too far. I agree with you that this has exposed John's character and people can make their own decisions based on that but I'm not sure how many times that can be said before it loses it's effectiveness.

 

[Fangthane]

Dan- you've gotten your pound of flesh, let it drop. You are starting to come across as rather shrill and a bit of a bully.

There's been a bit of an outbreak of that going around lately - imaginary bullying. If my (rather tame) posts have you feeling triggered, maybe you should seek a safe-space. Oh, the trials and tribulations of a social justice warrior.

To suggest that you can generalize about a person's character by responses on an Internet forum is quite a reach.

If I was a manager and saw someone that I was considering as a hire engaged in piling on and relentless attempts at humiliating someone that made some poor choices, it would definitely give me pause.

W-w-what!? Ahh..the old flip-flop. Juxtaposition can be a great thing. You simply can't have it both ways. You can't 'generalize' about the character of someone who's been objectively shown to be an outright liar - who, if they're 'skirting' anything, it may well be identity theft - but you'd feel comfortable using much more subjective interpretations of one's actions on an internet forum to consider denying them employment? Very interesting (read: hypocritical).

When you're just throwing out random ideas and hoping some will stick, I guess it's easy for such inconsistencies to slip by. I just can't help wondering if maybe you share the same truth-averse plane of reality that Mr. Pennington occupies.

Anyone who dismisses this behavior and can excuse it might also be someone people choose to aviod.

^This. Let me be judged no less harshly, for my supposedly-shrill tone and mindless aggression, than those with some inexplicable reason to want to minimize the actions of one who'd tell the most brazen lies and threaten legal action to try to have said antics removed. I go into this knowing damn well that we're all judged for everything we say. It'd seem that some aren't cognizant of that aspect of human nature.

 

[Lucille]

For what reason, Lucille? Because he doesn't agree with some of the things that have been posted?

A few days ago, I requested an IP check on another thread, turns out there was indeed an IP match. Just based on a hunch, as was this one. I'm not always right, but I ask rarely, and many times the answers have been fruitful.

inexplicable reason to want to minimize the actions of one who'd tell the most brazen lies and threaten legal action to try to have said antics removed..

Lying and threatening are extremely relevant when judging business behavior, but there are some who not only look the other way, but try to persuade others to do so as well.

 

[Tomharten]

Dear Dan and Lucille,
I guess I was wrong. Thank you for removing the blinders from my eyes and showing me the light. All along I was ready to forgive and forget, until you rock-ribbed, paragons of truth and justice stepped in and set me on the path of righteousness.
I mean lying about someone on their Facebook friends list?? What’s next? Phony Twitter accounts? Slipping a Smooth Softshell Turtle in with a group of Spinys?? It just doesn’t end.
Thank you both for being the wall of virtue against lily-livered milquetoasts such as myself. You are all that prevents Fauna Classifieds, and probably America, from sliding into ruin.
As for me, obviously some penance is required for such a disgusting public display of permissiveness and weakness of character. Perhaps I should submit a letter of resignation to my employer? Including, obviously, a screen shot so that my comrades, err…I mean fellow patriots on Fauna (sorry old habits die hard) will be able to verify. Or perhaps, a self-immolation video posted to youtube.
I will let you know what I decide.

Tom

 

[tlmoon]

That's pretty over the top, Tom...just saying. I get where you are coming from in saying the thread was too harsh. I don't totally agree; the guy was acting like a jerk and that tends to egg people on. I think everyone has a built in tolerance of stupid behavior, with some people more willing to be forgiving and give the benefit of the doubt. Other people have higher expectations and are less tolerant of bad behavior. I'm not saying either is wrong, just that there is a spectrum and you'll see all kinds here.

I think the BOI is very fair - if you don't think so, read some more threads. The first few pages of this thread in particular - Stu got called out for charging the pay pal fee, agreed he was wrong, and was given good feedback on that decision. I've seen a lot of threads where people do not assume, and ask for more information, and notify the subject that the thread exists. I think people are pretty fair when a poster is honest and not trying to rile everyone up acting like a troll.

Your point about keeping things from getting too harsh is well taken, however I think you've failed to take your own advice in that response.

 

[Tomharten]

Just trying to add a little levity to a thread that seems oddly out of bounds. I know that the BOI has done some AMAZING things to out scammers. In this case, the vibe that I'm getting is that a couple of folks are posting more as a blood sport until something juicier comes along. It seems like a mere mention of dissent from the "group think" results in personal attacks (e.g. check his IP address!). It's a little comical, so I responded in kind.

 

[juliasara]

John is viewing this thread currently, and has nothing to say I guess. I hope he doesn't think everyone arguing here has made people forget his mistakes and the fact that he still hasn't come clean. I vote for any comments from here on out be about what the title says not about the people who have posted on it.