Bad Guy Beware of Jerry Kruse

[Dennis Hultman]

You mentioned that you had procreated at least once and implied that said offspring was still young. I'm assuming too young to be reading this thread.

That's going to change, ol jer. Someday jer jr. is going to do a quick search on his old man's name, since I'm guessing you won't be around for much of his growing up, being the stand up guy you've proven yourself to be so far, and he's going to see just what people think of you and why.

Here is the post. Agree or disagree on the statements and thoughts of another member but it seems to me that it is a opinion on the character of Jerry not attacking his family.

 

[DISCERN]

Well said. I would only add that I've personally learned a lot about ZD during this process.

I agree Tony, and thank you once again for being one of the few voices of mature and intelligent reasoning, in this thread of too many pages..haha!!!!

 

[thomas davis]

so to re-cap
jerry sold 6 zonata for 3100.00 to stu.
within 2 weeks of recieving them they were showing known symptoms of ZD.
stu tried to get resolution with jerry and was blown off, so stu brought it here.
upon bringing it here it was/has been resolved... kind of.
jerry lied about when stu was to be repaid.
jerry tried to spin this whole transaction so it was him that somehow was taken advantage of. jerrys friends have also joined in claiming all is good and hail jerry as a good guy for finally refunding stu despite the fact it took 4 months and this thread to finally get stu his refund.
anyone who knows about snakes in general KNOWS that snakes cannot go from perfect robust representations of their sp. to what stu posted pics of in just 2 weeks time UNLESS there is/was an underlying health issue with those snakes OR that they were simply neglected. stu posted pics of exactly how he kept them during his tenure.
i think any reasonable person can see exactly whats what from reading all of this and can make their own decision as to whether or not to do business with jerry in the future.

 

[Mitchell Mulks]

Thomas,

Trust me, by no means am I attempting to defend Mr. Kruse, but instead I'm just trying to enlighten you and/or anyone else out there about how quickly 'zonata disease' can, and does, set in. You stated this in your above post:

anyone who knows about snakes in general KNOWS that snakes cannot go from perfect robust representations of their sp. to what stu posted pics of in just 2 weeks time UNLESS there is/was an underlying health issue with those snakes OR that they were simply neglected.

Please, trust me when I say this, that I REALLY didn't want to add another comment to this thread. However, while you are technically right about what you've said above, I think it can easily be misconstrued by anyone not familiar with this disease. The key thing you said was "underlying health issue". Yes, I do believe that any snake that comes down with ZD does in fact have an "underlying health issue". Unfortunately, I think that "underlying health issue" can be absolutely silent, and be completely unknown to the original owner or seller.

I've had snakes that were fine one day, literally be kinked up like they were exhibiting the worst signs of tetanus the very next day. Zonata disease can set in that quickly. That very same snake acted and appeared like a normal and healthy zonata the day before. As I did with my example of my experience with Bell's Palsy, the onset of neurological symptoms can be sudden and without very little warning. So yes, I do think it's possible for a snake to be sent appearing 100% healthy, only to turn in a matter of hours at a later date.

Furthermore, the bad sheds associated with ZD do not slowly progress. They are a sudden appearance, but only after the snake sheds. Many times, if you're being VERY observant, you can see the scales on the dorsal surface of the animal begin to slightly dimple. However, usually the snake simply goes into the blue, sheds, and then all of a sudden you have a snake that looks like someone has taken sandpaper to it (even the eyes have that scrapped appearance; the eyes are actually one of the best indicator characters of an animal with ZD). But, if you think about it, the onset of ZD in this case is once again a sudden thing.

Like I said, I'm not defending Jerry, but I am sharing with you and anyone else who cares to listen, that I don't believe Jerry sent what he thought were 'sick animals', or animals with ZD, to Stu. I truly think the animals looked 100% healthy when they were boxed and shipped to Stu. Now, as I've stated before, I think the temps at which Jerry keeps his zonata are cool enough to maybe negatively affect efficacy of each snake's immune function. I think with a compromised immune system, and then being shipped to a keeper who maintains his animals at higher (but safe and I'd say the right temperature for zonata) temperature and less humid environment (btw, I've never offered my z's a moist hide, and they do fantastic. However, I do use shoebox containers which allows evaporated water from their water bowls to remain in the air and increase humidity levels in their enclosures), might just be what brought about the onset of ZD in these snakes. I'm 100% sure that there were "underlying health issues" with the snakes sent to Stu, but I don't think Jerry was aware of it. It's been said by me, and Joe, that the original collection that both Jerry's and Joe's animals came from was known to have been ravaged by ZD. That info may or may not have ever been disclosed to either of them when animals were purchased. If not, then neither Jerry nor Joe were aware of what might be lurking in their newly acquired animals.

Lastly, I want to stress that this isn't a defense for Jerry, it's just me sharing my knowledge of ZD with you and everyone else. How this entire thing has been (mis)handled by Jerry is a completely different topic that I simply won't discuss. Enough has been said about Jerry, Stu's, and everyone else's character for any reader to make up their own minds on. However, the etiology of ZD should be made as clear as possible to everyone, so that they have the best understanding possible when they make up their own minds regarding the 'intent' of Jerry when he sent the animals. I think Jerry's intent was one of business involving what he thought were 100% healthy animals...but what else he was thinking, and how he handled things after that is not something I want to ever discuss.

Take care, and I hope you (Thomas) and anyone else who's read this can appreciate the purpose of this post.

Mitch

 

[thomas davis]

ok thanks for that info mitch. i as im sure everyone here does appreciate it and given your information about ZD i will retract my statement that jerry knew these snakes had an underlying health condition.
however, it certainly doesnt justify jerrys actions or his honesty or how he handled a customer that just spent 3100.00

 

[Mitchell Mulks]

Btw, I wanted to clarify one thing. I think the way I worded things above, regarding humidity with zonata, and going from Jerry's to Stu's collections, may have come across as though Stu's humidity issues weren't good. That isn't the case at all. I was just saying that from what I've read Jerry keeps his animals very moist. After seeing Stu's setup, his isn't as moist (which I think is the better setup...z's don't need it as moist as people think), but it does have a humid hide. When I made reference to how I don't use humid hides, that wasn't my way of saying I keep my collection like Stu's; because I know Stu uses humid hides, while I don't. I've never kept my snakes in those lidless containers, just because it seems like I'd lose too much control over each individual container and any humidity associated with it. However, I've always thought that if you use lidless containers to keep zonata, then you do need a humid hide. Just my thoughts...and a little clarification as to where I think Stu and others might have thought I misspoke about things. Hasta.

Mitch

 

[JETZEN]

something for the friends of jerry

Other things Jerry has done to others that I know to be fact, and hopefully the abused parties will share their tragic encounters with you, are:

1. Going mental on a breeder who didn't sell Jerry the holdback hatchling Jerry wanted.

2. Actively selling a wild-caught temporalis illegally collected from the Pine Barrens.

3. Taking breeders from a Zonata breeding loan, producing babies and not telling the owner of the snakes, and selling those babies and keeping all the money. When confronted about it he promised 'next year' he'd split the clutch, all the while sitting on holdbacks that he never offered to the owner of the snakes to make things right for being a their! Jerry claims everyone is lying about his behavior and that the person whom he ripped of is in fact a good friend, but I've spoken with him and I have his emails to show he dislikes Jerry immensely and feels as though he was stolen from.

4. Went into another person's house, took photos of all his zonata, and played them off as his. He told everyone he was going to have all these different locales of zonata for sale, but the hatchlings he was talking about weren't even his.
5. Screwed his Brother-from-another-mother out of hatchlings from a Purblan milk snake breeding loan (take home message: don't enter into a breeding loan with Jerry).

6. Knowingly sold mutt Baja Mtn kings as pure Martir stock when he found out that Dan Voss had sold him mutts and not pure animals. He was out the money so he dishonestly and under false advertisement did to someone else exactly what had been done to him. The classic part of this is Jerry just responded to a two-year thread where someone asked why he posted a negative BOI thread about Dan Voss. Jerry admitted that it was because two years ago he learned his pure stock was nothing of the sort. Since that time Jerry has unloaded his mutt stock onto others as pure.

Basically, don't interact with the man, because all that do tend to come out of it having been stolen from or lied to. Stu is one of many that have now been Krused, don't make the same mistake all of us have.

Mitch

that's great that jerry finally refunded Stu's money. now what about all this other stuff?

i highly doubt it's merely fabricated lies.

"unloaded his mutt stock onto others as pure" how can anyone of sane mind trust jerry?

 

[Mitchell Mulks]

Thomas, with respect to your post (the one you snuck in before my 'clarification post', dang!)...I agree wholeheartedly with you.

Mitch

 

[Mitchell Mulks]

John,

I've already written that 'other' stuff, as seen by your quoting me on it.

Here's something for you and everyone to think about. I really don't care for Mr. Kruse. That's obvious. Also, if I just wanted to see Mr. Kruse slammed for everything, true or not, I would have just sat back and watched him get slammed for 'knowingly' sending sick snakes to Stu. However, I don't believe in allowing disingenuous information about someone, or their actions, to 'take them down' (btw, I don't think Thomas was trying to 'make up' things about Jerry, I just think he thought that ZD didn't act that quickly and that Jerry had to know; that's why I defended my belief that Jerry didn't realize they were sick when he sent them...because ZD can onset that quickly).

So, given that, I think you can deduce for yourself whether I think what I wrote before I believe to be true, and whether I simply made it all up to 'take down' Jerry.

Mitch

 

[joecop]

Might I add to this that the breeder where my problem zonatas came from, (same breeder Jerry and many others purchased animals from), was very upfront and honest about having had zonata disease in his collection. He told everyone that I know of whom purchased animals from him. He did say that the surviving zd sufferers had "recovered" for the most part and they still had some lower body mobility problems, but that they were not contagious and the rest of the collection seemed fine. IMO an honest statement at the time, for we still are not sure how this is trasmitted. However, for most of the five animals I got from him to have come down with zd, and the rest of my animals which came from different sources to be fine, leads me to believe this was transmitted among the five animals somehow. My collection is thriving and I have had no issues since removing the sick (put in the freezer) and having since removed the others to a different room for precautions. They will never rejoin the colony.

Joe

 

[Gerards]

Might I add to this that the breeder where my problem zonatas came from, (same breeder Jerry and many others purchased animals from), was very upfront and honest about having had zonata disease in his collection. He told everyone that I know of whom purchased animals from him. He did say that the surviving zd sufferers had "recovered" for the most part and they still had some lower body mobility problems, but that they were not contagious and the rest of the collection seemed fine. IMO an honest statement at the time, for we still are not sure how this is trasmitted. However, for most of the five animals I got from him to have come down with zd, and the rest of my animals which came from different sources to be fine, leads me to believe this was transmitted among the five animals somehow. My collection is thriving and I have had no issues since removing the sick (put in the freezer) and having since removed the others to a different room for precautions. They will never rejoin the colony.

Joe

That's what I was talking about, I can't wait to get a couple animals from you. Even though you had it in your collection doesn't mean I would not buy from you. Talking with you and reading Mr Mulks posts have left me feeling a lot more educated about the condition. I look forward to keeping zonata and hopefully producing a couple too.
I do not know Jerry personally but the end result of this transaction between him and Stu ended with Stu being pleased(his words). That's how it should end, not Dingle recapping the same thing over fifty times out of spite. Nothing better to do? Sad!

 

[laterob]

I do not know Jerry personally but the end result of this transaction between him and Stu ended with Stu being pleased(his words). That's how it should end, not Dingle recapping the same thing over fifty times out of spite. Nothing better to do? Sad!

Isn't that italicized part just what you've been complaining about in many of your posts?

Also, "I am happy to report that...(I received money)" could be a far cry off from saying "I am pleased about this entire transaction". Further, while I am glad that more information about ZD has been shared and more people have been educated as a result of this thread, the PURPOSE of this thread (and all others on the BOI) is to alert others to business practices (good or bad). The ZD conversations, technically, should take place in the discussion forums.

THIS forum (the BOI) is here to talk about transaction-related experiences. I am glad for the recaps every 15 pages or so...it helps remind me why this thread is here in the first place. Plain and simple, this thread is here because Stu was not happy with a transaction that took place between he and Jerry. As many others have pointed out, this thread provides information to potential future customers about how they can expect Jerry to respond to difficult situations. It also provides insight into many of the other people who've posted here. Finally, it provides insight to all sellers in terms of handling business transactions. In my opinion, there is a LOT of valuable information in this thread.

BTW, who's Dingle?

 

[joecop]

Well, at least one positive I can think of that might come of this whole thread. I think future zonata sales might be priced a little more affordable now that many people know the risk of zd is real and could happen to anyone. I personaly have told folks that if I decided to sell some animals they will be in the 50-100 dollar range. Now, the ones Stu bought are rare animals, and pricing them higher is not out of the question, but for the most part most ssp of zonata might be priced lower with the known risk of zd. Glass half full?

 

[Gerards]

Isn't that italicized part just what you've been complaining about in many of your posts?

Also, "I am happy to report that...(I received money)" could be a far cry off from saying "I am pleased about this entire transaction". Further, while I am glad that more information about ZD has been shared and more people have been educated as a result of this thread, the PURPOSE of this thread (and all others on the BOI) is to alert others to business practices (good or bad). The ZD conversations, technically, should take place in the discussion forums.

THIS forum (the BOI) is here to talk about transaction-related experiences. I am glad for the recaps every 15 pages or so...it helps remind me why this thread is here in the first place. Plain and simple, this thread is here because Stu was not happy with a transaction that took place between he and Jerry. As many others have pointed out, this thread provides information to potential future customers about how they can expect Jerry to respond to difficult situations. It also provides insight into many of the other people who've posted here. Finally, it provides insight to all sellers in terms of handling business transactions. In my opinion, there is a LOT of valuable information in this thread.

BTW, who's Dingle?

I will agree with you, the BOI works well for talking about transaction related experiences, wether it's personal or business. People that post their personal non educated opinions about one or the other parties is what I THINK is stupid. There were plenty of people with experience on the subject, on both persons and animals that made very good post for this thread. I said there is good info in this thread. My posting today started with the fact that I learned ZD isn't something that should stop someone from buying from someone. How they handle themselves and their business is not what I said. I also said that it ended in a good way, not that it was handled in a good way. Stu got refunded and learned something. Looking at it in the way of learning about everyone that post is a good point. I think that if the person makes good on the issue it should end on that point. If someone wants to learn about how it went down and the last page is of 5 guys talking crap about issues that were taken care of, it seems useless. What's the point of making anything right if you can't get credit for doing it? All the things said on the last page were said many times in this monster thread. If anyone should be talking, it should be Stu, who said to lay off of him now because he was happy with the outcome. Just my opinion.......

Well, at least one positive I can think of that might come of this whole thread. I think future zonata sales might be priced a little more affordable now that many people know the risk of zd is real and could happen to anyone. I personaly have told folks that if I decided to sell some animals they will be in the 50-100 dollar range. Now, the ones Stu bought are rare animals, and pricing them higher is not out of the question, but for the most part most ssp of zonata might be priced lower with the known risk of zd. Glass half full?

I am glad I know people that work with these animals, to me they are very valuable. You let me know when those B&W's want to come live in Florida.....

 

[TONY D]

Stu I’m aware you asked for a refund prior to coming to “this” forum but below is an except from your ORIGINAL post from which I made the observation:

Gerard (Jerry) Kruse

He did not offer to take them back, refund my money or replace the animals. He adopted a “let’s just wait and see” attitude which left me feeling insecure. I felt at this point he was hoping I would just drift off into obscurity and stop bothering him. In any event I didn’t think he was going to do anything. I imagined that after waiting a little longer he would wash his hands of the problem saying it was definitely something I did since I would have had them a while at that point. Their condition started getting worse and looked exactly like what Brian Hubbs, author of Mountain Kings, describes as Mountain King (zonata) disease on page 258 of his book. I sent Jerry a picture and an email describing their condition but didn’t hear back from him for several weeks. Again his attitude was the same. He insisted it was something I was doing and offered nothing but “let’s wait and see” again. A month passed and I tried to contact him again but he did not respond. I figured that was it and I was on my own. Unfamiliar with this type of skin problem I posted it on Kingsnake.coms Mountain King forum.

Now there is a lot to say hear about the lack of communication on Jerry’s part (see 60 some pages worth) but per YOUR account you took this public prior to expressing that you wanted a refund. Yes it should have been obvious, yes this is not the example of prize winning customer service but you still didn’t make your expectations clear which I believe would have been a much quicker route to a resolution even if it STILL had to come to the forum. I never intended to say this was your fault but failing to express your expectations and blocking Jerry’s communications for a time certainly didn’t help shorten the time to resolution.

 

[thomas davis]

Isn't that italicized part just what you've been complaining about in many of your posts?

Also, "I am happy to report that...(I received money)" could be a far cry off from saying "I am pleased about this entire transaction". Further, while I am glad that more information about ZD has been shared and more people have been educated as a result of this thread, the PURPOSE of this thread (and all others on the BOI) is to alert others to business practices (good or bad). The ZD conversations, technically, should take place in the discussion forums.

THIS forum (the BOI) is here to talk about transaction-related experiences. I am glad for the recaps every 15 pages or so...it helps remind me why this thread is here in the first place. Plain and simple, this thread is here because Stu was not happy with a transaction that took place between he and Jerry. As many others have pointed out, this thread provides information to potential future customers about how they can expect Jerry to respond to difficult situations. It also provides insight into many of the other people who've posted here. Finally, it provides insight to all sellers in terms of handling business transactions. In my opinion, there is a LOT of valuable information in this thread.

BTW, who's Dingle?

its very evident who's on who's side concerning this "deal". whats funny is watching it all unfold and there are volumes of insight as to some of the characters that have posted in this thread and why
bottom line jerry and his "kru" of followers have shown their true colors while trying to justify their own and jerrys actions/posts in this thread/deal.
its plain to see...
jerry kruse dug his own grave so to speak with this entire fiasco now his buddies feel the need to help him keep digging.
funny thing is its not about "sides" at all, its about right and wrong. sadly jerry and his followers dont seem to recognize that, thus the name calling. but after all the "fluff" its still very clear to anyone who reads it as to whats what and who's reputable and who's not.

 

[laterob]

Now there are a couple good posts right there. I still think, based on what I've seen so far, that Stu wants Jerry to be left alone (at least partly) to make sure his check for mid-April is still good. A confession obtained under duress or coercion doesn't stick.

I guess we'll see in 11 days or so.

 

[TONY D]

bottom line jerry and his "kru" of followers have shown their true colors while trying to justify their own and jerrys actions/posts in this thread/deal.

Thomas yes Jerry is a friend and that is based on first hand experience with him over many years. I'm not discounting other's experience but I feel like I should be able to relate my own without having my motives or character questioned. Doing so demeans the BOI and if you doubt me on that read webslaves post about killing the messenger:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236966

Lastly you know I also have a long history of taking the least popular side of an issue to advance a conversation. On many occasions I've sided with you over hybridization issues when your combative style made you a very hard person to defend or sympathize with.

 

[rattler]

Here is the post. Agree or disagree on the statements and thoughts of another member but it seems to me that it is a opinion on the character of Jerry not attacking his family.

Spin it any way you like but there is Absolutely No Reason to even mention a mans family. It has nothing to to with the subject matter pertaining to this thread.

 

[Gerards]

Now there are a couple good posts right there. I still think, based on what I've seen so far, that Stu wants Jerry to be left alone (at least partly) to make sure his check for mid-April is still good. A confession obtained under duress or coercion doesn't stick.

I guess we'll see in 11 days or so.

Asking people to stop talking crap so his check clears makes no sense now. If that were a possibility Jerry would have told him to go to hell along time ago. He should have been worried about that at the beginning. That's why I do not think this thread had anything to do with Stu getting his refund. If your going to get burned either way, refund or not, a bad guy would have just not refunded. It seems it would have ended the same way.