Bad Guy Beware of Kevin Lamm from Ohio

[Soli]

I purchased a Pink Tongue Skink from Kevin Lamm who advertised it in an Ohio reptile sale group. In the photo that he sent it appeared to be in good health, so I drove 2 hours to go pick it up. I examined the animal briefly in person before purchasing it. It appeared healthy to me but I am not experienced with skinks. Its eyes and mouth were clear. I noticed one of its toes was black from stuck shed that had become constricted and its tail was thin, but did not think it would be a problem.

Shortly after on the way home I noticed something did not seem right. It looked skinny to me, but did not appear this way when I was holding it before. I offered it water and it drank it very intensely. When I got back I put it in some shallow water and again it drank very intensely again. I thought that it was just thirsty from being in the container for 2+ hours.

When I brought it home it ate immediately, but it basked under the lamp constantly, barely moving from the spot. Occasionally its breathing would appear heavy. The next day its behavior was the same, lying under the lamp and not moving very much. I thought it was stressed and still acclimating. The day after it was lying on the bottom of the enclosure. When I offered it food it came up to the plate, but this time it just layed its head on the edge and closed its eyes instead of eating. It did not drink either.
I came back to check on it a few hours later, and it had passed away.

Contacted him about the skink passing, and I stated I believed she was ill. He refused to take any responsibility. He said something in the food I offered it must have done it or that it got overheated. I know that is not true as I had the basking lamp on a thermostat and checked it with a thermometer and a temperature gun multiple times a day. It had a basking spot in the low 90s, and areas below the basking spot where it could also bask in the lower 80s if it wanted. The cool end of the enclosure was at 75 degrees. I heavily misted the enclosure twice a day.

I realize in the conversation below I state that the skink acted normal (eating and drinking), but when thinking back on this now and after talking with a few people that keep skinks I think that this animal's behavior was not normal and there was something wrong. I did not have any experience with Pink Tongues previously. There may be some fault on me for stating that, but I still had this animal for less than 2 days and he stated that it was completely healthy even though it had a dead toe. And it appeared to be thin/malnourished to me. I believe he was ignorant to the state of the animal's health.

He did not respond after I said I did not think she was over heated.

I had this animal for about 48 hours. I received it Sunday 7/17 at 6pm and it passed away around Tuesday 7/19 around 7pm. It is my opinion that this was not a freak accident, I believe there was something underlying that was set off by the stress of moving.

I do not know if he has a fauna account or sells online but I know he sells in Ohio reptile Facebook groups. I would avoid buying any animals from this individual. I am very upset over this experience.



Here is the photo he sent me of the skink:

Here is a photo of the skink when I noticed something was not right:

Here are photos of the conversation after I contacted him about its passing:

 

[Lucille]

Grace, have you informed Kevin of your post here so that he can post here also?

 

[JButera]

Total bs. The skink was either sick and/or not care for. It takes some time for a lizard to show hip bones. A captive well cared-for, healthy lizard doesn't need to gulp water and bask for hours on end. IMO, the skink had a respiratory infection that was contracted long before you brought it home.

 

[MissFirefly]

From the pictures, that skink appears emaciated and dehydrated based on the prominence of the spine protrusion and hips.

Did Kevin state if the animal was wild caught or captive bred? Did he provide proof that he has had the animal for a year and evidence of fecals run?

Curious to hear Kevin's side of this story but leaning towards this being a recently imported WC skink which do not have the best survival rates especially if not treated properly for parasites.

Are you planning on getting a necropsy done?

 

[Soli]

Grace, have you informed Kevin of your post here so that he can post here also?

I just informed him

From the pictures, that skink appears emaciated and dehydrated based on the prominence of the spine protrusion and hips.

Did Kevin state if the animal was wild caught or captive bred? Did he provide proof that he has had the animal for a year and evidence of fecals run?

Curious to hear Kevin's side of this story but leaning towards this being a recently imported WC skink which do not have the best survival rates especially if not treated properly for parasites.

Are you planning on getting a necropsy done?

Sorry I should have added this to the original post, but all Pink Tongue Skinks are captive bred in the US. They originate from Australia, and from my understanding it is impossible to export reptiles outside of Australia and has been for years. He did not provide proof of any kind.

I did not plan on getting a necropsy done.

 

[Branch77x7]

Seems obvious something was wrong. Skinks like this don't show that much hip bone definition in such a short time. I'd say it had a nutritional deficiency that was set off by the stress of transportation.

Perhaps Kevin can tell us what it was being fed pre-transport?

 

[MissFirefly]

I just informed him



Sorry I should have added this to the original post, but all Pink Tongue Skinks are captive bred in the US. They originate from Australia, and from my understanding it is impossible to export reptiles outside of Australia and has been for years. He did not provide proof of any kind.

I did not plan on getting a necropsy done.

Thanks for the clarification. Am much more familiar with blue tongue skinks which for some sub-species are regularly imported.

Having to be captive bred, or a long-term WC animal, means there is even less of a reason for the skink to be in this condition.

 

[Michael Brown]

The fact that he mentions that he had initial fecal reports done on the animal upon receiving SCREAMS wild caught or acquired from a less than ideal situation. Very few facilities / individuals run fecal reports on CB animals (that I'm aware of). I'd be very very surprise if that statement he made holds any legitimacy, but I could be wrong.

New to skinks, or not, you clearly did your research with that set-up + temp control and stuff. I know you were excited about getting a new critter, but how did you not see that that animal is extremely emaciated upon purchase?

Unless Kevin came here with proof that this was 2 months, not 2 days, he sold you a bum animal with an underlying health condition. No healthy reptile dies in 2 days of care.

 

[Soli]

The fact that he mentions that he had initial fecal reports done on the animal upon receiving SCREAMS wild caught or acquired from a less than ideal situation. Very few facilities / individuals run fecal reports on CB animals (that I'm aware of). I'd be very very surprise if that statement he made holds any legitimacy, but I could be wrong.

New to skinks, or not, you clearly did your research with that set-up + temp control and stuff. I know you were excited about getting a new critter, but how did you not see that that animal is extremely emaciated upon purchase?

Unless Kevin came here with proof that this was 2 months, not 2 days, he sold you a bum animal with an underlying health condition. No healthy reptile dies in 2 days of care.

When I first saw it he had it in a small deli cup and picked it up to show me. At that time it did not appear emaciated to me. I could only see the spine like that when it was in certain positions if that makes sense. I saw it like that after I had already left.

But, I should have examined it for longer and gone with my gut upon seeing the dead toe. Definitely learned my lesson there.

I have a few photo examples, they're not the best photo but the skink didn't appear as bad when it was in positions like this.

 

[Michael Brown]

I understand that. I also understand the excitement and anticipation of driving hours to pick up an animal you've been waiting for. The hip bones concern me in that last picture. But in bad lighting or too much lighting (not sure the time of day you got it) mistakes happen. Make no mistake, I feel as though you were wronged, and I hope you receive at least some sort of explaination, or apology. But might be an expensive lesson learned if he doesn't own up. Would love to hear his side of this. The way I see it if he wants any type of positive reputation he needs to make this right.

 

[Soli]

I understand that. I also understand the excitement and anticipation of driving hours to pick up an animal you've been waiting for. The hip bones concern me in that last picture. But in bad lighting or too much lighting (not sure the time of day you got it) mistakes happen. Make no mistake, I feel as though you were wronged, and I hope you receive at least some sort of explaination, or apology. But might be an expensive lesson learned if he doesn't own up. Would love to hear his side of this. The way I see it if he wants any type of positive reputation he needs to make this right.

Thanks. Yeah I hope so too, but I am not really expecting anything at this point.

From now on I'll be sure to buy from someone reputable and with a health guarantee. Probably jumped the gun since I had been wanting a PTS for a very long time. Emotions clouded my logic. Not upset by the monetary loss as much as much as I am about losing the animal.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I would definitely look for a breeder of them, you may pay a little more, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Michael, depending on what the animal is fed, fecal exams are regularly preformed on lizards. Crickets can give them pin worms & a heavy load of them can cause malnutrition and death.


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[Michael Brown]

I would definitely look for a breeder of them, you may pay a little more, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Michael, depending on what the animal is fed, fecal exams are regularly preformed on lizards. Crickets can give them pin worms & a heavy load of them can cause malnutrition and death.


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I was not aware this was normal practice for CB animals. Would make more sense with lizards. Thanks for the info!