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Bad Guy BEWARE OF PIJAC!!!!

I agree with Rich totally on this point. If the government really wanted to protect people they would outlaw cigarettes. BUT NOOOOOOO they will not give up the revenue from the taxes even though people will die because of it. Granted these people made a choice and have to live with it (no pun intended). The government could save thousands by outlawing smokes. I wonder why, when they are SOOOOO interested in what is good for you and me, they don't? :rolleyes:

Well at least the present occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania steps out to the back yard for a heater, so all the smokers won't have to worry about that for at least the next 3+ years or so.

I have to disagree a little on the drug/cig issue... well, I'm all against banning things that only cause self-harm. Let people do what they will as long as they're informed.
The trouble comes when those people go to the ER, etc with their smoking problems. They become a burden, bla bla bla... taxes CAN be used to "internalize an externality" and force people to pay the real cost of their actions.
Not saying that's what the government actually IS doing, I imagine it's seldom so efficient, but in theory I actually LIKE the idea of taxing things that are (self) harmful instead of banning them, and using the money to educate people/support rehab programs/whatever.
 
i will interject with one statement.

god gives rights to the people than the people loan those rights to the gov. the gov has been over stepping and flat out taking those rights from the very people they are supposed to be protecting.

i will oppose any bill/law that takes away my right to keep what i want, be it a fully auto ak 47, or a 15 ft scrub python.

the gov interjecting and givings us laws/regulations is not a forgon conclusion we still have the right to oppose such.
 
I hate wading into politics, but here goes. First, PJAC has been defending the rights for pet ownership for 40 years. They have done a damn good job too. Things would be pretty bleak without the hard work Marshall and others have put into ensuring our rights to keep animals. Also, PJAC is a lot more then reptiles and amphibians. They look out for all pet owners and businesses related to pet ownership. Keep in mind that for the most part PJAC is a political machine all in itself. They know how to compromise, and they know how to navigate capital hill. Let's let them do what they do best, but at the same time, let's make sure that WE are not being compromises. Remember, they are dealing with the whole industry, and herps still make up a very small percentage of that industry.

I'm no expert, but I have changed a lot of local laws both in my state, county, and city. Bad ordinances can be defeated before they are made into law. HR669 is now being re-written. It will hit the sub committee again soon. It is up to us to fight it. The best compromise for us is to make sure this bill does not pass. If we stop it again in the sub committee it will more then likely not come up again for another year. If it passes the sub committee, and I think it will, it then has to go to the full committee. We need to stop it there. We don't want it to hit the floor of the house. Republicans are all pretty much on our side. So we need to concentrate on the Democrats. They are the ones that will push this bill, and they are the ones we need to connect with. They control Congress, so we have to let them know how we feel. I've already contacted all my state reps to both the House and Senate, and will do so again if this bill looks like it's going to reach the House floor. If it passes the House, the Senate will have to come up with a similar plan, and then the House and Senate has to compromise on the Bill for a full vote by both. So we can still stop it in the Senate if it gets that far. Of course we can also bombard the President if it passes, and demand he veto the bill. He might if we can prove the economic hardship this bill will cause. We can prove that, besides some locality issues, that invasive reptiles and ampibians pose no ecological or economic impact on the United States except Guam, Florida, and a few other sub tropical sites. Let those areas deal with invasive species issues as they see fit. There is no need to make this a national issue

Bottom line, fight for our rights. No compromise, no surrender. PJAC will help, but we have to fight to save ourselves. No one else is going to come to our aid. We are a small group. But we can make a lot of noise. Let's be the squeaky wheel. If this bill passes and is signed into law, we have no one to blame but ourselves. But make sure that we include the other factions in our fight. We have to fight for the keeper of squirrels, gerbils, and macaws. We have to fight for the small exotic cat fancier. We are all in the same boat together. Don't consider this just a herp thing, it's not. PJAC is not to blame for all this, and can and I hope will be a important tool to use in our fight. But this is OUR fight, so let's no kid ourselves into believing that someone else is going to save us. USARK will surely help, and has done great so far. But it's up to me and you and you and you. So now, when it's time to write letters again, and it will be soon, let's make sure that we double our efforts. Friends, family cousins, the guy that bags our groceries. Get everyone involved. Death before surrender. Well, perhaps not so drastic, but you get my meaning.
 
I don’t speak up in the forums very often, but Vanyard what are you thinking? You’ve started a rant about an organization that provides protection to our industry as well as others. You’ve stated no facts whatsoever. I thought that the BOI was a place to post facts with supporting documentation not conjecture!

Yea, that’s right, they are scum. They are selling us out, don't be fooled, they are saying yes to HR669: http://www.pijac.org/projects/project.asp?p=28

I’m sorry that you don’t agree with NRIP. I found it to be a pro-active approach. Any legitimate breeder whether small or large should all ready be implementing SOP’s. Plus it’s voluntary, kinda like BOI Good Guy certificates.

Do not support these liars, they are having secret meetings with HSUS and PETA right now, they want to save their own ass and put the rest of us out of business.

Where’s your proof? Show it to us! I saw/heard one heck of a testimony by Marshall Myers on the 23rd. He was the only person in the room that knew what he was talking about.

We are being sold out folks, BHB, Bill Brant, PIJAC, PETA, and HSUS are all in together. BTW, nice videos Brian, too bad it was all a lie.

Again where’s the proof??? You’re tearing down good people who busted the backsides to fight HR669.

HR669 is not dead; we were told it was by PIJAC and USARK

Now who’s spreading misinformation? Show the documentation!

Honestly, if I worked for PETA or the HSUS I’d want to shake your hand and thank you for furthering the cause.

It is possible to charge at Hell with a bucket of water, but against stupidity even the gods themselves struggle in vain.

WELL STATED!

Rich Beasley
 
That was dated April 23, the meeting I speak of took place after that date.

Given the very long history that PIJAC has supporting our industry, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to assume that their position nine days ago is the same as their current position. Until I see a statement from PIJAC contradicting Marshal's testimony on 4/23 I'm willing to believe that their position hasn't changed.

I'm pretty far out of the loop in the reptile industry for the last few years, but it sounds like you have some concrete evidence about a recent change. I would be grateful if you could present some evidence that PIJAC's position has changed since 4/23. I certainly reserve my right to change my opinion of PIJAC if I'm convinced that they are not working in the best interest of the reptile industry. I anxiously await seeing your proof.

Joe Hiduke
 
NRIP has nothing to do with HR 669. Anyone who thinks that one is the other hasn't read through ANY of it.
NRIP is a proposed VOLUNTARY program(like the AKC for dogs) that was written up in 2003, and the program has been posted publicly, because I've read it well before Crutchfield went off the deep end claiming that it is HR669. I said the same thing about the fees being abnormally high for a typical hobbiest.
Varnyard, I want to see your proof too. PIJAC and the others ALL said 'It's not dead, we need to keep our guard up, because they will be rewriting it' all along, were you not paying attention to those emails? We defeated the first draft by making our voices known, not by making them table the entire premise of the bill.
So far, I haven't seen any of your first post proven true. NRIP has nothing to do with ANY proposed laws. PIJAC did not say that HR669 was dead and done with.
I think that some laws will end up being made, but I also think we should fight against ANY restrictive legislation on the pet trade. If they really want to deal with invasive species importation, then they need to propose laws to do that, rather than laws that will cripple the whole pet industry.
Trying to rip apart one of the main fighters FOR reptiles and pets is NOT the way to help the herp hobby.
 
What concerns me here is the way some people here are poised for a fight within the industry. Currently, there is stophr669.com, nohr669.com, usark, and pijac, not to mention the fact that many non-reptile exotic hobbyists have yet to come on board. What we need to do is ALL unify and work together.

I urge everyone to calmly, rationally, contact everyone mentioned as supporting this plan to ask where they stand. Let them know where you stand and what you hope and expect from them either as an organization (pijac) or an industry leader (BHB). Remind them that most people that drive this hobby are not pet owners that keep 1 or 2 snakes to look at, but hobby breeders that fund their hobby through resale. That entire market will evaporate if this goes through. Again, be calm, intelligent, firm, and respectful.

I feel that the hot-headed knee-jerk rhetoric and advice given in this thread (sorry, Bobby...nothing personal) can very well be counter-productive and devisive within this hobby. It will be impossible for a divided community to stand up against the legislation that will ultimately bring it to an end.
 
What concerns me here is the way some people here are poised for a fight within the industry. Currently, there is stophr669.com, nohr669.com, usark, and pijac, not to mention the fact that many non-reptile exotic hobbyists have yet to come on board. What we need to do is ALL unify and work together.

Great point

Does anyone else get the feeling this going to turn into a who did the most for the hobby thing? I just don't understand why everyone cannot work together for one comon cause. KEEPING BIG BROTHER OUT OF OUR BUSINESS
 
I just don't understand why everyone cannot work together for one comon cause. KEEPING BIG BROTHER OUT OF OUR BUSINESS

Right there is the problem, John. There's not one common cause, just a bunch of personal agendas.
 
Bobby,
Where are you getting all your information? It isn't a big secret that these rumors have been floating around, but most of what you have stated is hearsay. It appears to me that you are trying to divide the reptile community in a time when everyone needs to be united. PIJAC has done more to fight legislation than you ever have yet you want to "stop them"?

And I think that your slander towards people that have been trying to help, mainly Brian, is in very poor taste. You obviously don't know him and your ignorance about him is very apparent. Why would Brian want to stop people from breeding on a small scale? That is who his customer base is. Also what exactly did he lie about in his video? After making that video he received many threats from HSUS activists. You also said you called him, you didn't leave a message, because he never seen a call from you. So if you want to talk to him you can contact me and I will give you his cell number or I could have him call you.

I have been friends with Brian for many years and he is a good guy. He is willing to help people and wants the best for this industry. If we keep up with this internal bickering we the reptile community will be the downfall of this hobby that we all love and are passionate about. We also need to support the guys that are busting their rears to help, because if individuals continue to discourage their work and run them off, well that is the end of our hobby/industry.

Wil Combs
 
Right there is the problem, John. There's not one common cause, just a bunch of personal agendas.

Bingo. I believe this stems from fear. The fear of losing one's animals leads to the "every man for himself" and "we need to compromise" mentality for a lot of folks. That's what the AR folks want, and they've succeeded in dividing us, assuming we were ever united in the first place. The common cause, imo, should be that this would be A HORRIBLE and UNJUST LAW, regardless of whether it's about pythons, mice, fish, or birds. There are many reasons it's so bad, but if nothing else the issue should be handled by states/cities. I don't understand all this talk of compromise. Compromising with a turd legitimizes the turd. If someone tells me 5 plus 5 is 9, I'm not going to compromise and agree that 5 plus 5 is 9.5.

Regarding PIJAC (or any other organization), I have no idea what to think.
I would like to see ALL organizations come out and say what they stand for, not just vague references to a "compromise."
 
Ok so I haven't been very involved on this forum but what the hell do you mean Brian is in on it. By all means show me some proof and I will join you in your bashing right now but I seriously doubt you have any credible sources if any at all.
 
Well I'm hearing from a lot of different people that there is some shady stuff going on behind the scenes. Deals are being made "under the table" to benefit "the big boys" and drive the little guys out. There is no proof of anything(that's kinda the design) but when I hear the same stuff from several different sources, I gotta believe that there's something to it. I don't know if PIJAC realizes it or not but they're being used to push some things that will only benefit a minority of the reptile community.
 
Well I'm hearing from a lot of different people that there is some shady stuff going on behind the scenes. Deals are being made "under the table" to benefit "the big boys" and drive the little guys out. There is no proof of anything(that's kinda the design) but when I hear the same stuff from several different sources, I gotta believe that there's something to it. I don't know if PIJAC realizes it or not but they're being used to push some things that will only benefit a minority of the reptile community.

Then its hearsay and dosnt belong on the BOI.
 
And I heard we'll all die from swine flu if we eat bacon. I heard that from at least 5 different people today. I also heard that I can burn water in my car and never buy gas again.
Neither of that is true either, and until I see proof, I say someone is instigating garbage for their own purposes, and I'd look askance at the folks starting the rumors up, way before I'd look at the organizations that have fought for the rights of ALL pet owners.
 
Then its hearsay and dosnt belong on the BOI.

And I heard we'll all die from swine flu if we eat bacon. I heard that from at least 5 different people today. I also heard that I can burn water in my car and never buy gas again.
Neither of that is true either, and until I see proof, I say someone is instigating garbage for their own purposes, and I'd look askance at the folks starting the rumors up, way before I'd look at the organizations that have fought for the rights of ALL pet owners.

thanks for being sane guys. But we r all going to die of swine flu :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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