Beware: Of Reptileguru.

[Dennis Hultman]

How are we to believe the snake was as bad as you say?

Once you tell one untruth everything you post is in doubt.

We did not want to send the snake back due to the fact that we got it for a customer/breeder friend of our that needs a adult male guyana boa.

I was no way in hell going to send him back to that horrible environment.

We never said we are going to do a charge back and keep the snake. My wife said she was going to do a charge back if you didn't correct the situation.

Extortion, To pay less! There is no way this statement can be explained away. You threaten to steal, if a better deal did not come your way.

I was no way in hell going to send him back to that horrible environment.

 

[Chameleon Company]

This is one of those "He said, she said" about the phone conversations,

And in such situations, you look first for consistencies between both versions, then inconsistencies in one's own version, then try to evaluate contradictions between opposing parties. I thought Dennis made a very good point about the charge back issue.

Originally Posted by jnjreptile:
We never said we are going to do a charge back and keep the snake. My wife said she was going to do a charge back if you didn't correct the situation.

Well, JNJ, you had earlier said that the solution you saw as "correcting the situation" was as follows:

Originally posted by jnjreptile:
We called ReptileGuru to work out some sort of partial refund from how we had already paid to have him treated. They called and said the only thing they could do was have us ship the boa back today and they would give us a refund upon arrival. I said no due to the fact that we had already treated the snake.

I doubt that the "partial refund" option which you wanted included shipping back "part" of the snake. The words are all yours, and I cannot reconcile the two statements, which are very much in context.
JNJ, your frustration is understandable, and you feel misled. But again, as pointed out by others, just "a few" mites on a boa is a huge problem, and your solution is the same, whether it be 100 or 10,000. I also cannot agree with those who said that the error lies in shipping the snake. Reptile guru was very forthcoming as soon as he realized the problem, and yet the customer agreed to take the animal, albeit believing (or assuming) there were less mites. Reptile guru is also being a man of his word by offering a complete refund. I'm going to have to say that Jim at Reptile Guru has acted appropriately throughout.

 

[liquidleaf]

Here is the other image, different (slightly) from what Reptileguru posted.

This still doesn't show mites on the snake.

You keep saying "I wouldn't want to send the snake back to such horrible conditions".... you were told as soon as Jim noticed the mites, and offered to cancel the deal RIGHT THEN. Obviously mites aren't a normal thing for him, or he would have never offered to cancel the sale. He offered to treat it for you and send free medicine. YOU REFUSED. Your comments about your shop offering snakes "without mites, unlike Reptileguru" makes it seem like you expected to receive a clean, mite-free animal. Again, how are we to know where the mite in the photos came from? Is it tough to turn a shipping bag inside out and rub it on another snake that does have mites, or even shake some pepper in the bag? No.

Seems like you are fishing for money. No photo of the snake in question? Do you have other snakes with mites at your facility? Taking a digital photo of some mites rubbed off from elsewhere onto a bag isn't all that much "effort" to try and get some money back for a snake you don't want to return.

You approved the transaction of shipping a snake with a case of mites. If you won't ship the snake back, sorry, but stop complaining. In my opinion Reptileguru's offer of a full refund upon return of the animal is pretty fair.

 

[gmherps]

That shop looks horrible!!lol.. How dare you keep animals in that good of condition.

Nice shop!!

 

[jnjreptile]

As I have said before. Why would I go through all of this trouble if the mites were not his. I asked for a partial refund because I don't think I should pay full price ($385 shipped) for a boa that is extremely infested with mites. His employee refused. I ended the conversation and posted a warning. Done deal. I was not going to drag it on. I was just going to deal with it. Because I would/will not send a boa back to a place were he wont be treated for mites. He came in with hundreds if not thousands of mites so it obviously means that he was never treated. It is not about the money now. That stopped when I ended the last conversation. right now for me it is about treating the snake before the mite start chewing him up. And as far as saying I said I wouldn't send him back because I had already paid to get him treated. If you keep reading it also says that I wouldn't send him to be in that horrible condition. It doesn't matter if you have a very expense set up like they do or a ten dollar set-up. If you don't treat your reptiles for mites when they obviously have them then that is a bad environment.

Everyone keeps relying on Jim saying he will still give us a full refund if we send the snake back. But it is not about the money. It is about sending the snake back to a place where he was not treated for mites in the first place. Why would I do that to the snake? I don't think anyone in their right mind would.

 

[liquidleaf]

Did he or did he not offer to treat the snake before sending it?

After we purchased it the Owner/Jim called us and told us that he had found 5-10 mites on the snake and wanted to know if we still wanted him shipped and he would include a bottle of mite off or if we wanted to wait and he would treat the snake before shipping.

If he ran such a dirty shop that he would send out snakes with mites all the time, why would he TELL you he noticed mites and offer immediately to cancel the transaction?

Why won't you post a picture of the snake?

 

[jnjreptile]

Jim never offered to cancel the transaction. What he offered was he would keep it, treat it and then ship or he could ship him then with a bottle of mite off. But he also said he only saw 10 mites. Not hundreds. I think it is weird that he is taking all of this time posting on fauna but he couldn't take the time to call us to deal with the problem when he started the transaction. He had someone else do it for him. As far as posting a picture of the snake. I will post one right now. But when a snake is dark it is very hard to get the mites to show up.

The problem isn't my husband and I. The problem is that this snake obviously was never treated for mites. That is absolutely unacceptable. And I will refuse to send him back to a place like that. I don't want any money so I don't see why everyone is still dragging this on and making us out to be the bad people when we are the ones that received an animal covered in mites.

 

[Junkyard]

Very interesting. JNJ, you accepted the snake with mites, therefore you cannot complain.

 

[prehistoric]

First off, I want to apologize again for even having sent the snake in the first place. I should have not left that decision to the customer. But it was his decision and I will not make the same mistake again. Mites are a problem in this business and my employees are treating the store right now. I will make every effort to prevent this from happening again. I never wanted to disappoint JnJ reptiles and that’s why I informed them of the problem prior to shipping. At the time of our phone call I hadn’t even charged their credit card. My business is important to me and I work to hard to tarnish my reputation over a $300 sale. Unlike other businesses that have complaint treads on the BOI, I am here to defend myself and answer these questions. Most of all, I never want to be considered a BAD GUY on the BOI.

Thank you,
Jim Alles

 

[Chameleon Company]

JNJ, I don't know .....

Again, if looking for inconsistencies in one's own words:

JNJ, in post # 25:

Because I would/will not send a boa back to a place were he wont be treated for mites.

and here are your own words in an earlier post:

jnj, in post #1 (and pointed out by others)

.........Owner/Jim called us and told us that he had found 5-10 mites on the snake and wanted to know if we still wanted him shipped and he would include a bottle of mite off or if we wanted to wait and he would treat the snake before shipping.

I am sure you are a fine person, but once again, in this thread, you have directly contradicted yourself while attempting to impugn the integrity of another in the business.

I have trouble with this as well, again from post #25:

JNJ says:
I asked for a partial refund because I don't think I should pay full price ($385 shipped) for a boa that is extremely infested with mites.

OK, if standing by itself, I see the logic. But since you already knew you were receiving a snake infested with mites, the threshold for a partial refund is whether they are "extreme" or not. I respect your anguish, but don't feel that the difference between what you expected, what you got, and what you should have expected, warrants a partial refund with you keeping the snake too.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

The problem isn't my husband and I.

I take it Josh is not posting anymore. You need to sign your name to your posts.

 

[jnjreptile]

And once again. He did say he would treat the snake before shipping. But actions speak louder than words. He knew the snake had a mite problem and judging my the amount of mites the snake has he didn't treat the snake at all prior to or after our transaction.

 

[Bill & Amy]

We seem to be hung up on the number of mites, but anyone knows that if you can "see 10 mites" then there is alot more hiding under scales that you wouldn't ever see. Maybe I read this wrong, but didnt he say he treated and then shipped? That would explain all the dead mites falling off in the bag. It still comes down to "what does it matter how many mites?" They cost for treating 100 or 1000 is the same. So what would be the reasoning for a partial refund?

 

[jnjreptile]

My husband only posted once because I was gone running errands with my son.

 

[Chameleon Company]

While I was typing my last post;

In post # 27:

JNJ says:
I don't want any money

And then back to post #1:

JNJ says:
We called ReptileGuru to work out some sort of partial refund from how we had already paid to have him treated. They called and said the only thing they could do was have us ship the boa back today and they would give us a refund upon arrival. I said no due to the fact that we had already treated the snake.

I will bet you a dollar to a doughnut that if you had gotten the partial refund, this thread is never here!

JNJ, IMHO, your base complaint, that you feel that the boa had a lot more mites, and was therefore a bigger problem, than you feel you were led to expect, is a legitimate complaint. Doesn't indicate you were deliberately misled though. If you had left out all the contradictory details, ......... well, there would be more sympathy for your plight here. But in the end, the full refund offer is appropriate regardless, in the eyes of the majority of the posters here. FYI, I do not feel that you in any way attempted to misrepresent the level of the infestation, and trust the bag photos as being accurate. Doesn't change anything though.

 

[jnjreptile]

As I have said before. It is not about the money. That ended after our last conversation on the phone. The only thing I care about is the well being of the boa. The mites were not dead in the bag they were alive. That just tells me the boa was never treated. But anyways it is not about the money. The transaction is over. It is a done deal and now I just need to concentrate on getting rid of the mites so the boa does not get chewed up.

 

[Scott Ashton]

Josh-

Jim has, from the beginning of this thread, offered a full refund including shipping charges.

I think this is more than fair, especially considering he made you aware that the animal was infested with mites. Furthermore it is apparently his policy to not discount his animals based upon such disputes.

As for the quantity of mites - this point is hardly relative, as 1 mite can kill your animal just as well as 100 or 1000 mites.

Regardless of your quarantine procedures/policies it is absolutely irresponsible to knowingly accept mite infested animals.


Jim-

I applaud your frankness in admitting that regardless of the circumstances you should not have shipped the animal.

How long had you had this animal?

How long do you quarantine animals received at your facility.


Laura Cox-

You are a model of ethics and responsibility and I can only imagine how difficult it must have been to destroy your collection.

By making the difficult decision that you did, you spared many others from the horror that you have had to experience.

Unfortunately, the almighty dollar frequently wins out over doing the right thing. Hopefully your example will go unnoticed by few.

-Scott Ashton

 

[Dennis Hultman]

My husband only posted once because I was gone running errands with my son.

The rules are clear, your name is not in the name field, you need to post your full name on each post.

 

[jnjreptile]

True I did ask for a partial refund. Anyone would have. Jim's employee refused, we argued. I ended the conversation it was over. And again why would I send the snake back to a place where he wasn't treated in the first place. Everyone keeps relying on the money and who said what but no one seems to care about the snake. But as I said it is a done deal and now I just need to concentrate on treating the snake.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

My wife said

As I have said before. It is not about the money. That ended after our last conversation on the phone. The only thing I care about is the well being of the boa. The mites were not dead in the bag they were alive. That just tells me the boa was never treated. But anyways it is not about the money. The transaction is over. It is a done deal and now I just need to concentrate on getting rid of the mites so the boa does not get chewed up.

It's All About The Money.

My wife said
So, let me ask you.

We never said we are going to do a charge back and keep the snake My wife said she was going to do a charge back if you didn't correct the situation.

Why did you say that? Because you feel you should not pay full price, you threaten the charge back. Credit card companies do not allow partial charge backs.

True I did ask for a partial refund. Anyone would have. Jim's employee refused, we argued. I ended the conversation it was over. And again why would I send the snake back to a place where he wasn't treated in the first place. Everyone keeps relying on the money and who said what but no one seems to care about the snake. But as I said it is a done deal and now I just need to concentrate on treating the snake.

Jen, YOU made it about the money.
My wife said she was going to do a charge back if you didn't correct the situation.