Beware of Steve Weissman aka Santa Cruz Reptiles

[Dennis Hultman]

Thank you. I was curious if it was a “pouched” label or like the one pictured. The one pictured would be impossible to remove in one piece from almost any surface. I was thinking maybe there was a possibility that the label was removed and placed on a similar box before it arrived. Not likely.

Steve, did you ship the box or someone else? Either way, I think you should honor (that’s a key word) your TOS. I have no doubt that the box was received empty due to the credibility of the witness for the receiver of your package.

Now, I am not saying you sent a empty box, but I am saying it arrived empty.

 

[ajc]

Steve already answered that in one of his emails...

Steve, did you ship the box or someone else?

Good question, Dennis...

From: "steven i weissman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Super Pastel


>I would be VERY careful about whom you try to slander. The label was on
>the tape I used, and can easily be pulled off in one piece. Cutting the
>tape is not necessary. Rest assured, it is a two way street out there,
>and It will be my word, and several others who handled the box on my
>end, against just you. If you wish to send the box back, I will
>inspect it to see if I can determine anything. You stated this has
>happened before, and I wonder if ups delivered to you that time also?
>

 

[Fedawg]

Quite simple? No...that's ridiculous.

Did you actually type that with a straight face? How can you possibly be serious? I have received hundreds of UPS shipments over the years, and NOT ONCE has the driver ever stuck around long enough to watch me open a box.

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. I don't want to have to give myself warning points after the fact.

I and most everyone will agree that UPS drivers never even ring the doorbell usually , let alone watch someone open a package. What i think Anthony M. was trying to say is that , reguardless of whether the UPS driver did see the package opened or not , that is the only vialble third party who can be a judge here.

Also , I have known Anthony McCain for a few years now and i trust him. I was talking to him a few months ago on the phone and he told me he had a Super Pastel coming in when it warmed up enough for shipping.

I dont think anyone here can be a judge on the situation. Why hasnt anyone followed up with UPS at all to see if something might have happened in transit?

Just my thoughts

 

[Junkyard]

It certainly sounds like Steve tried to pull a fast one here. Using UPS as an excuse for an animal not showing up seems to be one of the teachings in the "Scammer's Guide to Ripping People Off" I believe it is in the "Blame the Carrier Service". Many here saw this same excuse last year with a big scam that went down.

Steve needs to post proof that he even shipped the snake. We already have a witness that did not see it in the box.

 

[norsmis]

I agree

It certainly sounds like Steve tried to pull a fast one here. Using UPS as an excuse for an animal not showing up seems to be one of the teachings in the "Scammer's Guide to Ripping People Off" I believe it is in the "Blame the Carrier Service". Many here saw this same excuse last year with a big scam that went down.

Steve needs to post proof that he even shipped the snake. We already have a witness that did not see it in the box.

I agree completely. Steve has shown no prrof what so ever that there was a snake in the box. The shipping label showing 1lb as weight is the proverbial nail in the coffin in my opion.
Steve, care to join us and help us understand what's going on?

 

[kmurphy]

Also , I have known Anthony McCain for a few years now and i trust him.

What's not to trust? His only contribution is a character witness for Steve. He had a successful transaction with Steve and that's it. I believe him. The fact is he wasn't a witness as Dr. Owen's or AJC was.

With that in mind it is surprising that he would start calling people liars.

 

[Fedawg]

What's not to trust? His only contribution is a character witness for Steve. He had a successful transaction with Steve and that's it. I believe him. The fact is he wasn't a witness as Dr. Owen's or AJC was.

With that in mind it is surprising that he would start calling people liars.

I brought up that i trust him because someone said they didnt believe he got an order from Steve a few pages back.

 

[The BoidSmith]

If the box weight was rounded off by UPS to the nearest highest weight it means it weighed even less than 1 lb (454 g). If the snake, plus heat packs, plus bag weighed approximately 100 g this means that the empty box was close to 350 g. Although further proof seems unnecessary at this point, weighing the empty box will be an indication of the likelihood that it was empty when shipped. If it weighs over 350 g empty, chances are there was nothing in it.

Regards

 

[Dr Owens]

If the box weight was rounded off by UPS to the nearest highest weight it means it weighed even less than 1 lb (454 g). If the snake, plus heat packs, plus bag weighed approximately 100 g this means that the empty box was close to 350 g. Although further proof seems unnecessary at this point, weighing the empty box will be an indication of the likelihood that it was empty when shipped. If it weighs over 350 g empty, chances are there was nothing in it.

Regards

Dan,
I previously posted this (emphasis added):

You'll notice that a carton of 6 of these boxes (with the styrofoam liner) weights 8.36 pounds. Those 6 boxes are shipped in one big box which is included in that weight. However, I think that it's probably pretty safe to assume that each box weighs approximately (or a little over) one pound. That doesn't even leave any room for the snake, bag, packing materials, heat packs, etc.

Incidentally, I called David and had him weigh the empty box. It weighs 10 oz by itself without the styrofoam liner. Since the snake that Steve was supposed to be sending David was supposed to be greater than 200 grams (200 grams = 7.055 grams) there is NO WAY that the snake could have been in the box and still have it weigh under 1 pound.

(Please note my typo: 200 grams = 7.055 ounces)

There's no way to crunch the numbers in order for it to even be possible for there to have been a snake in the box and still have it weigh under 1 pound.

 

[ajc]

Steve,

Here's your chance to make good on the deal. You can still maintain your innocence...just say you're giving the customer the benefit of the doubt (which in this case makes sense, considering David's the last guy on earth who would need to rip someone off) and replace the snake or just send him back the cinnamon pastel.

I think I've been taken advantage of before, but I KNOW that nobody will ever say I ripped them off.

I've seen the box in person and I know what the authorities are going to think. Between lost sales and the money you'll spend on legal representation, you're going to find out that it would have been easier to just do the right thing in the first place.

You might think about this stuff before you're served with papers. No need to make things harder on yourself.

-Anthony

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Steve, I am not going to accuse you of sending nothing in that box. I’m just going to give you another way to look at this situation.
Long ago, I believe it was the very first topic I posted on in the BOI, another instance with the same scenario played out. The conclusion from the posters in that thread was much different and sided with the shipper due to many mistakes made by the buyer. The majority felt that if the seller replaced the snake he was being scammed, I had the same thoughts as well. It was more than obvious the snake disappeared after it had arrived at location it was shipped to. While the seller had support from everyone to do absolutely nothing he choose to look at the situation a little differently. The seller stated in one of his posts, and I might add, this is so very true, all he had in this hobby/industry is his name and would make his decision accordingly. This seller has a great reputation and there was not a single complaint prior to this situation but he decided to replace the animal anyway. Why, because he understood the situation for what it was and placed a higher value on his name than the situation itself. I am going to take a quote from that thread in the hope that you will see some inspiration on a course of action here.

While some of you may say I'm dumb and was scammed I will sleep better knowing I did what I thought was right under the circumstances. I look at it this way, I produced the pastels so I'm not out any actual cash just a snake. I figure anyone looking me up will see how I handled this and feel secure doing business with me. I don't want to give the wrong message however!!! This isn't something I will do whenever a customer makes a claim like this. I just thought this situation was different. Thanks to all that backed my integrity and shared their feelings on the matter.

I can tell you this; I will always remember that seller as an honest person with the highest integrity. One of the reasons I wanted to share this and you probably don’t remember, we had a brief email exchange maybe a year or so ago. I asked you about some snakes you had up for sale and mentioned that I had received feedback from others and viewed the positive posts about you on the BOI. I said then, based on the knowledge I obtained that you would be a good person to do business with.

I would ask you to draw your own conclusions, when someone is looking at this thread in the future, they’re checking references, asking friends is this a reliable person to do business with.? What do you think the message they receive from this thread will be?

If everyone would set aside the notion for second that there was no snake in the box when it was shipped and just say some “third party’ stole the snake in transit or it evaporated into thin air. What would be the right course of action? Steve, regardless of what has happened, it would be wise to assume the snake did not arrive at its intended location. Unless for some reason, you believe that Dr. Owens is untrustworthy and has given false statements here. I believe you will find little support for that theory. If you then believe, even though the snake was not received, no reimbursement is needed. It will give us all the insight we will need in this transaction.

 

[VandeverExotics]

Very well put, Dennis. I agree that whether something happened to the snake in transit or whatever happened, it's obvious that the snake never arrived. Even if UPS lost the snake or however it came to pass, the best thing for Steve to do is to honor his TOS. Otherwise, anyone and everyone will see what kind of chances they are taking when dealing with him.

From what I can tell, Steve, you haven't had any major problems before this. It would seem that it would be worth it, for your own reputation, to concede that the snake didn't arrive and make it right. That would be the difference between me doing business with you in the future or me not doing business with you in the future. And I think you will find that alot of other people are going to feel the same way. Otherwise, they are going to believe your TOS to be worthless as well as the author/owner of the TOS. JMHO.

 

[VFR!]

Difficult situation here, I don't wish to judge since I don't believe all of the information is on the table. Who has attempted to contact UPS and see what their stance is on the situation? Has anyone actually called the station from where the box was accepted to see if the weight is actually rounded off? People will have the opinions but where are the facts from the horse’s mouth?

For all we know a UPS driver could have printed a new label and took the animal, it's not like they don't have access to new shipping supplies. Is the information including time and date of acceptance correct on the label.

Again, not making assumptions or passing judgment, just looking for information so that I can! LOL

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Difficult situation here, I don't wish to judge since I don't believe all of the information is on the table. Who has attempted to contact UPS and see what their stance is on the situation? Has anyone actually called the station from where the box was accepted to see if the weight is actually rounded off? People will have the opinions but where are the facts from the horse’s mouth?

For all we know a UPS driver could have printed a new label and took the animal, it's not like they don't have access to new shipping supplies. Is the information including time and date of acceptance correct on the label.

Again, not making assumptions or passing judgment, just looking for information so that I can! LOL

UPS will have no official stance on this problem as they expressly forbid the shipping of snakes. If you use them for this purpose, you do so 100% at your own risk. That road does not lead to ANY resolution.

I find one thing odd about this situation. Let me first say that, in my opinion, Dr. Owens bearing direct witness to the opening of the box eliminates any doubt that the animal was in there on arrival. Supposing and double talk aside, I believe that the majority will concede that this is now a fact.

The animal did not arrive, alive or otherwise. The question why does not enter into the equation unless the buyer is lying. I believe we have proven that this is not the case.

The seller has a live arrival guarantee and chose to ship a $7,000 animal through a carrier that does not permit it and offers no insurance or guaranty......not good.

Until the animal is in the buyer's hands, alive, the seller's TOS have not been met.

There really isn't anything else to say Steve....return of his animal or replace the one you supposedly sent, those are your only ethical options.

getting back to my earlier statement that i find something odd...as someone else pointed out, Steve has a pretty good rep in the business. I have been around for a while and have never heard a bad word spoken about him. I believe it is entirely possible that he did, in fact, send the animal out. Twenty four hours is a long time and alot could have happened while the package was out of both parties care. the benefit of the doubt towards you Steve would be a lot more forthcoming if you resolved this professionally, ethically and quickly. this is not the response of stand up breeder.

 

[Dr Owens]

For all we know a UPS driver could have printed a new label and took the animal, it's not like they don't have access to new shipping supplies. Is the information including time and date of acceptance correct on the label.

Yes, it is true that UPS drivers have access to shipping supplies. In fact, their trucks are stocked with shipping labels in case a customer should need one. However, I do that that it's pretty safe to say that UPS trucks are NOT stocked with pre-printed Santa Cruz Reptile labels.

 

[VFR!]

You are very correct Dr. I apologize for I did not come across as intended. To be more detailed; "while in the care of the shipper any person could have typed a new label" is what I meant to say. The package makes stops at many locations before it arrives at its destination. Now, I think reptiles are not suppose to be shipped UPS (I think but not sure) but something had to be put on the label? Why not call and say that "something" did not show up in the box?

Maybe my thoughts may not be the correct ones and someone else may have some ideas, but I hope all that can possibly be done by both parties to locate the animal has been done.

 

[varnyard]

Ok, lets say that someone at UPS took the snake. It would need to be an employee in order to print a new label along with the exact same tracking #. Why would they remove everything from the box? Also, how would they know the value of the contents? It just dose not seem to add up. I for one would not see why they would completely empty the box, or know the value of the contents. How many UPS employees have morph ball pythons? As well as how many that were in contact with that box in the 24 hour period.
It just seems to me, we would be jumping from mountain top, to mountain top. When it all boils down, the question still stands if Steve honors his word that the snake is guaranteed to arrive alive and well. As for Dr. Owens, his reputation speaks for itself, IMO. I have no doubt the box was empty upon arrival. I would hate to think what this thread would look like if David would have been alone when he opened the box. This is just my opinion.

 

[VFR!]

In a way you are assuming that nothing could have happened between point A and B. So let’s just put some minimal effort in finding out answers and call people thieves when we don’t hear what we want. I hope no one here is applying for forensic anthology or detective type work.

You are pretty much saying that no efforts should be made what-so-ever to even try and find out what happen between point A and point B.

My question to you is that are you 100% sure that there is no hope in recovery of this snake? Did it just disappear off the face of the earth? In no way did I ever mention for ANYBODY to not honor their terms of service, however, I do believe all avenues should be checked prior to doing so. There is nothing wrong with covering all bases before proceeding to the next step.

Oh, and to think there are no herpers that work for UPS, I think that is just plain ignorant. HERPERS ARE EVERYWHERE!

 

[VFR!]

I apologize for coming off a bit aggressive in my last post but it would be nice to see people actually offer advice to the person in question as to what his options are with the shipper in regards to a missing item. I don’t believe I have seen anyone give the person in question the benefit of the doubt and most people on here probably don’t even know anything about this person, including myself. Did anyone on here ever think that there could be a possibility of retrieving the snake and then both parties could be happy? Is there a possibility, YES, so why does no one act like it? Again if all resources are used and only negative results lie in the end then I have to say that a replacement is in order.

AGAIN, I am in no way saying that TOS should not be honored, I just believe all avenues should be covered first.

 

[Junkyard]

No one said that there are NO herpers that work for UPS. Bobby said

How many UPS employees have morph ball pythons?

My question to you Angel:

Have you contacted UPS about the missing snake yet? Or is that everyone else's job?