Bad Guy beware panther16 ryan [email protected] liar flybynight bait & switch conartist

[Killer Chams]

Brad @ chameleon forums needs to step up and ban that idiot. One of the main points on the cham forums is we always take the animals well being and put that first. Brad needs to show the members he's serious about protecting the herps that are being sold on his site. Now stepping down from my soapbox.

 

[Snake-Queen]

i thought it was a drill bit too, but if you look closer its actually just a bunch of quarters pressed together. horrible thing to do to a living animal. thank god its out of his hands and with a good person now

I see it now.

That is still bad.

 

[951adg06]

The drill bit looks like nickels to me. The sides are smooth.
This is definitely disgusting and wrong. All for $45 bucks. Jesus people would do anything to get over now. Even given up their reputation, for a couple of dollars.

 

[KevinOpp]

It has come to my attention that some people want to see his response to the situation so I will post it below. Once again I am not interested in posting the entire back-and-forth regarding the shipping that occurred over a span of 2 to 3 weeks. But in terms of the way that she was shipped; his and my responses are below. As I am currently on my iPhone, I do not have my initial letter to him describing how she arrived and whether he could explain all of the errors in the photographs. I have that email at home and can add it later, but this is what I can show right now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Panther16


Dear kev,

I have responded and have got no.response back from.you. Like I said im extremely sorry the bad experince you had. Contacted post office regarding the issue.you should.have an email stating already what im explaining to you. Delivery servife had complied with the duct tape being used to keep.the box closed. Supposebly the existing shipping tape was coming off so there employee re_taped with duct tape whoch was totally unexectable. It was coming during the delivery route. With all the inconvenience they refunded back my money. They never admitted to any change being in the box at all! Please email or shoot me a pm in regards to this problem. As you can see it was not my fault but I absolutely do accept the fact of me shipping her out late. Will gladly give you free chameleon accessories and 50 percent off any chameleon in my inventory.

Please respond asap,
Ryan,




Unfortunately you are not satisfying myself or the board with your answer. Let's say that everything you have written regarding the duct tape is true. It still does not offer any explanation of why she was out of her bag with no evidence of any tie or string to seal it, why the box was quarter-folded on both sides which is completely unsecure, why she was not in a 3rd container such as a styrofoam box which offers padding and insulation against temperature extremes, why there was no labeling of a live reptile on the boxes exterior, and most importantly, why the ONLY type of padding in the entire box was a few pieces of crumpled and flattened tissue paper which did absolutely nothing to protect her from being bounced around and hitting the walls throughout her entire trip. Would you have made this trip yourself in the same conditions?

So you got the money returned to you from the PO. OK, then why would it not be returned to me since I paid for the shipping? And as far as others are concerned, the entire price of the sale should be refunded to me as well. Offering a discount on a future purchase is ridiculous and very telling since you apparently don't realize that what you did was so offensive to many of us that there is no way that I (or some others) would ever purchase from you again. We just see more evidence that you don't realize that this is not the place for this abominable sale and pure abuse of a chameleon.

The final call is not mine either way. But given what happened and your response, I don't expect that you will be allowed to sell on this site again.

I am not interested in retribution, that does nothing for me. But I am in the process of turning this into something as positive as possible by writing an article for the forums on the proper way to ship chams, and the improper way. Photos will be used in the article, but you will not be named. Hopefully, you too may learn from this as well as countless others so nothing like this happens again. In the meantime, you may want to check out a site such as Ship Your Reptiles which have videos and kits that offer some of the best ways to ship.

I have heard enough at this time and would prefer to not discuss it with you any further. If you feel that a refund is in order, you have my Paypal address. If you feel that you have been wronged, I would suggest contacting the forum board as I am an intermediary at this time and cannot offer you any more advice that I already have.

 

[KevinOpp]

as i don't see where i can edit my post above, i am now posting my letter to him from just after i received her. the 2 letters above are chronologically subsequent to this letter. you can see how he ignored all of the questions and issues that i posed here and only focused on the shipment and his refund; absolutely no qualms about how she was shipped.


hello ryan-

it's been several days since i received the female panther. i'm not going to mince words here; the shipping method and container were completely inadequate, and there are some very angry and disgusted people right now that are as shocked as i am that a forum member would have shipped her in such a poor fashion. when we finally got her, she was completely loose in a 7x7x7 cardboard box with literally a few scraps of tissue paper in it, a cloth bag, and $1.32 in change all loosely tumbling around. the box was "quarter folded" on both ends and taped with grey duct tape. at least one large hole was in one corner. 2 air holes made by a pencil. no marking of any kind to identify a live animal or reptile inside. there was blood on some of the tissue scraps and bag. so she spent 2 days at a minimum being thrown around in an unlabeled box with no protection, coins hitting her all over her body. no bag/deli cup/styrofoam/cushion/nada. just her, tissues, and coins.

not only was the package illegal by USPS standards, but it was well below standards that forum members are expected to adhere to when using the Classified section to sell an animal. Chameleon Forum membership does not automatically include the option of advertising and selling animals in the Classified section. it is an earned privilege, not a right. and in this instance, not only was communication subpar and the shipping illegal, but forum members are expected to do their absolute best to ensure that a live animal is alive and healthy when it arrives at its destination. that is why most members use Fedex, UPS or a company such as Ship Your Reptiles or Reptiles Express with a morning delivery. triple packaging is a standard in this industry; that means either a bag or deli cup inside a styrofoam box inside of a heavy duty cardboard box. hot or cold packs are optional but advised when shipping to and from various climates. the outside of the box must be clearly labeled with the contents; a commonly used phrase is "Live Animal--Harmless Non-Venemous Reptile".

below i am enclosing the unboxing photos that i took as my wife and i opened the box as we expected to find a dead lizard. and the question to you at this point is if you can explain why you chose this particular shipping method, why she was loose in the box, why there was loose change in the box, and why everything was obviously done as inexpensively as possible when the price of the lizard and the shipping fee are two distinct entities and a seller is not expected to profit from the shipping charge. the exact shipping charge should be calculated and then passed on to the buyer. please do your best to say in your words what happened, and i will show it to the administrators and moderators who want to know more about this. your actions may have effects on the entire forum and classifieds in particular, so please be as descriptive as you can.

regards,

kevin oppenheimer, dvm

 

[KevinOpp]

and, just to make the record complete, here is the back-and-forth between the sale and time of delivery. a nightmare unto itself.





Begin forwarded message:
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
Date: May 10, 2012 9:45:49 PM EDT
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: female panther

So nothing ever showed up today. So either she is out there dead, she is dying, or she doesn't exist. Any of those three ways is nothing that I paid for at this price level.

Are you going to refund my PayPal money this evening, or would you prefer I dispute this with PayPal? If I don't hear from you within 90 minutes, I'll open the dispute.

Sent from my iPad






From: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
Date: May 9, 2012 5:55:27 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: female panther

package sent. tracking number is
EM550827402US

WILL BE THERE TOMORROW

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch






-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:

I really have no idea what you're talking about to be honest. Do I get the lizard, or are you refunding the money?

Sent from my iPad






On May 8, 2012, at 7:00 PM, Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]> wrote:

call puente post office on gale street. They are saying ot will be shipped out in three days. since its too late for express mail since the lady was giving me a hard time ,the manager said to send her out tomorrow morning. attached is the paper stating it would take 3 days which is rediculous and i dont want to risk her dying.or in bad shape. she is defenitely way too pretty and healthy to risk.

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch






-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:

Thank you for getting back to me. I greatly appreciate your offer! Since this is the first lizard I've bought from you, I don't know how you typically advertise. I think I saw this one on kingsnake.com?

Sent from my iPhone





On May 8, 2012, at 12:25 AM, Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]> wrote:

hi kevin
im very sorry and very upset with my secretary for not shipping her today
she will be sent out first thing in the morning i promise she will be sent out.
for the inconvinece if you happen to buy a chemeleon in the future from me, ill give you 50% off again im very sorry

regards,
ryan

again im very sorry

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch







-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:

ryan, what's going on? i've got no lizard nor tracking numbers but i do have a debited credit card that went through 1 week ago. i bought 4 lizards last week and they're all here except for yours, and i'm not getting a lot of responses from you. i just also got scammed by a person on the forums, and have had to file a dispute with Paypal. so i'm a bit weary and leery right now.

please respond immediately and fully and let me know what's going on.

kevin








On May 4, 2012, at 11:14 PM, Rlconstructionoc wrote:

kevin call paypal because the payment actually cleaed today. secretary made a mistake. will ship out monday morning. dont know why it took so long.

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch






-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:

Does that mean that she's going to be here for Saturday delivery?

Sent from my iPad







On May 4, 2012, at 1:35 AM, Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]> wrote:

its clear. ill send it tomorrow which is friday. Whenever paypal is used, it usually takes a day or two to clear.

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch







-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:


i'm using the card for other chams left and right......i dunno why it's hung up with you---







On May 3, 2012, at 3:13 AM, Rlconstructionoc wrote:

i should ship it tomorrow or the next. waiting for paypal to clear. it is pending in my account though

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch







-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:

do you know when we're shipping?

kevin







On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:30 PM, Rlconstructionoc wrote:

yes sir. got.the payment


Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch







-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:


Got it?

Sent from my iPad






On Apr 30, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]> wrote:

awsome kevin send it to paypal immediatly after to:

paypal account:
[email protected]

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch







-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:


what's up?

my address is:

Kevin Oppenheimer, DVM
XXXXXX

paypal addy is XXXXXXXX

did i miss your paypal addy? if you give me the total and your address, i'll pay immediately.

kevin








On Apr 30, 2012, at 7:49 PM, Rlconstructionoc wrote:

Hi Kevin please email asap regarding the shipping.

Thanks

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch








-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:

magnificent! i'll take her!

paypal addy is [email protected].

kevin








On Apr 30, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Rlconstructionoc wrote:

attached is the sire. please let me know.
Thanks,

Ryan

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch








-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:


So do you have pictures of the sire?

Sent from my iPad







On Apr 30, 2012, at 1:21 AM, Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]> wrote:

yes this is me. just recieved your email


Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch








-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: female panther
From: "Dr. Kevin Oppenheimer" <[email protected]>
To: Rlconstructionoc <[email protected]>
CC:

i assume this is you? Panther16

i have beautiful pictures of her, but i thought you were going to able to show me her sire?








On Apr 29, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Rlconstructionoc wrote:

Hi attached are the pics of the female. she is now gravid and ready to breed.
please get back to me as soon as possible if youd like to go further.
Shes beautiful!
Thank You



Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch
<20120411_125303.jpg><20120318_174219.jpg>

<cham4.jpeg>





<20120508_155532.jpg>

 

[kerrek]

On Apr 29, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Rlconstructionoc wrote:

Hi attached are the pics of the female. she is now gravid and ready to breed.
please get back to me as soon as possible if youd like to go further.
Shes beautiful!
Thank You



Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch
<20120411_125303.jpg><20120318_174219.jpg>

<cham4.jpeg>


<20120508_155532.jpg>

Wow it is a miracle that chameleon made it to you alive. But the statement above made me shake my head if she is gravid how is she ready to breed?

 

[Snake-Queen]

But the statement above made me shake my head if she is gravid how is she ready to breed?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[Will0W783]

I don't think the seller actually knows what "gravid" means....considering he had no clue how to ship a live animal, it seems feasible that he wouldn't understand technical herp terms. *smh*
That shipping job was downright disgusting...poor lizard. I hope that she thrives well for you Kevin. You might want to keep an eye on her if you found blood on the packing materials. I hope that she doesn't have any internal injuries from being bashed with coins for days.

 

[KevinOpp]

I also did not believe that she was gravid which is why I guess I took a chance on that, but of course she was not. Since she has been here she has thrived eating and drinking well and actually last week even mated with a blue bar that I have.

For those that don't know, I'm a veterinarian with special interests in reptiles so she's in good hands. A thorough physical exam never revealed the site from which the blood came from, although she has a small 2 to 3 mm nodule near her mandible that appears quiet and not the source of the blood as far as I can tell.

And finally, I did email Ryan and let him know about this thread on the BOI if he feel that he wants to respond to the situation. I would be surprised if he did, but he has already surprised me before!

 

[KevinOpp]

I finally received a response!

Do you see what I mean by absolutely clueless?

That's not cool at all . It not like your beautiful female that I sold you never got there. Yes there was a shipping mess up but the female was alive and very healthy plus you got an outrageous deal. Return her back . I want her back and I'll give you the money back you cheapskate

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308711

 

[bloodybaroness]

I would not even think about returning her unless he sent you the money first. Not that you would, I'm just saying.

What a piece of work.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I am relieved to hear she is doing much better. I know she will thrive in your care.

 

[KevinOpp]

Lord no I would never send her back! Even if he offered me ten times the amount; not only do I want her, but I would never give a person like that a cham to care for! And now, as opposed to what the original advertisement said, she is gravid! And the sire is absolutely magnificent and I cannot wait for the babies.

 

[KevinOpp]

And just so the record is entirely clear and open on this, my "Outrageous deal"was $340. That is generally a higher price than one would pay for an amilobe female, I think most would agree.

 

[BPsnakes]

I brought a female panther chameleon on the 17th I payed $60 for overnight delivery on the 21st panther16 stated he's was

"Im shipping him out today.
Ill be sending you a tracking number once its shipped "

I took off of work the 22nd and sat by the door all day and nothing I then pmed and email panther16 and emailed him and I got no response in till friday at 9:38 pm in which he stated that "She got delivered"

Which was not true of course The truth was he mailed her snail mail through the USPS I had to go there saturday to pick her up the shipping cost for her was $16.02

not the $60 I was charge for the overnight delivery

here is a list of the PM's



PIC#3
3 month Alpha Female Red Bar Blue Body $180 plus shipping.


is this girl still for sale do you take paypal ?


Yes she is for sale and also the last female. I can do her for $180 + shipping. What is your zip code so I can let you know how much shipping will be .

Thanks,
Ryan

Corey 54220

Hi Corey,

Shipping would be $60 for overnight priority delivery.
Please let me know if you'd lke to go further

Originally Posted by oldworldlife
Corey 54220

yes! is it $240 and whats your paypal adress

Hi cory I just got your message. Send the money to this PayPal account:

[email protected]
$240Total: Shipping Included

Call or text me @ 714-345-9750

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldworldlife
money sent ship mon or tues whatever works for you .
thanks


Cool. Just received your PayPal. I should send it tuesday since it would take a day or 2 to clear in my account.

What kind of calcium do you feed your Cham?


like what brand name ? I use two ones made by zoomed like reptivite the other the other is a blue can reptical or something close to that
I use them about once a week .

I should send it tuesday since it would take a day or 2 to clear in my account
sorry I thought I sent it as an instant transfer[/QUOTE]


You are supposed to give them calcium every day and calcium d3 and vitamins twice a week. I'm going to give you some repshy calcium plus. This stuff is the best on the market. Instead of switching supplements all the time, repashy has all the nutrients in one. So therefor you don't need to be going back an forth. All you do is dust your feeders every time with the repashy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldworldlife
the reason I switch is cause one is calcium and one is vitamins/calcium


The correct way is calcium every feeding and calcium w D3 and vitamins twice a month. The cool thing about repast is that everything is balanced so you can give this to him every feeding and not have to switch to different ones. Repashy is the best stuff out there, it's talked about a lot on the forums here. I am willing to give you some for free to try it out .
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldworldlife
Did that clear your acount yet ?


yes it cleared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldworldlife
what day are you going to ship ?


Im shipping him out today.
Ill be sending you a tracking number once its shipped

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldworldlife
SO WHATS UP??????????????

She got delivered

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldworldlife
She got delivered where ??? Not here !!! What was the tracking number ?who signed for her and what address did you send her to ?


Tracking number em550828632us

Look at the teacking.. It was at your house this morning and no one was there. That isnt my fault. Someone should be there to recieve the package
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldworldlife
She got delivered where ??? Not here !!! What was the tracking number ?who signed for her and what address did you send her to ?


You need to get to your post office asap tomorrow morning

I payed for overnight shipping on wed I was home all day thursday I didn't pay $60 to pick her up two days late at the POST OFFICE I payed $60 and shipping was $16 you need to refunded me the $44

he never answered me back after this
the poor little girl was lucky to be a live

I don't know Ryan's last name but here is his avatar picture everyone beware[/QUOTE]

file a complaint on paypal and you might be able to get your money back

 

[WolfPaw]

WOW!!!! I have only shipped once but even I know better. No Styrofoam, lose in the box and the PO is not allowed to use duct tape, even delivery guys can not, it is against the PO policy. Wow I cannot believe a cham survived that, she is a trooper!