Info BHB Reptiles

[Kinra]

On December 7th I received a pewter female that I had purchased from BHB Reptiles. Upon unboxing her I immediately noticed that she had a major kink I was not made aware of. I contacted BHB to get the issue resolved.

Lori offered to let me keep her for half off (she was $450 so that would have made her $225) or I could return her for a full refund. I was happy with this outcome and decided to return her for the full refund.

As I was packing her up I noticed that she had at least 2 mites on her belly. I know these did not come from my collection as the most recent addition to my quarantine rack was early last month and I inspect them fairly regularly. I still shipped the snake back to BHB because I know the mites came from them and I e-mailed Lori to let her know that the snake had been dropped off at FedEx and that she has mites. I also informed her that I would be posting this on fauna BOI and ball-pythons.net.

As far as I am concerned as soon as I get my refund issued the matter will be closed and I won't be purchasing from BHB in the future. Not informing me of the kink could be classified as an isolated incident of miss communication, but selling snakes that have mites is different. That is a larger issue and they need to work on improving their quality control.

Here is the actual photo they had up on their website:

I did request additional photos and these were what I got:

You can see the kink in this photo if you are looking for it, but I was only looking at the photos quickly to see her color and pattern. I had assumed that if there was a serious issue such as this kink her price would have been discounted and it would have been mentioned on their website.

These are photos I took shortly after receiving her:

As you can see this is not a small kink and someone had to have noticed it as some point.

Here is the e-mail chain I have from corresponding with Lori going back to the first the original e-mail I sent her telling her I received her and I was disappoined they didn't tell me about the kink.

From: Rebecca Wyman <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: BHB Enterprises Inc. Purchase Order - 884
To: Lori Barczyk <[email protected]>


Lori,

I have just returned from dropping her off at FedEx. She was packaged with two heat packs are requested. As I was packing her up to I was giving her a once over and I noticed that she also has mites. I saw at least 2 mites on her belly, so not only did you sell me a snake that has a very noticeable kink, you also sold me a snake with mites. I know for a fact that they did not come from anything in my collection. She was placed in my quarantine rack short after being unpacked. The most recent addition to my quarantine rack was over a month ago and I inspect them regularly. None of them have mites. I am informing you of the mites so you are prepared for them when you get her back and so you know to look at your collection.

I'm really disappointed in the way you handle quality control and I doubt I will purchase from you in the future. I do appreciate that you worked with me to resolve this though. Up until now I have been content not to post anything to BOI or ball-pythons.net about the issue with the kink because it could have been an isolated incident of miss communication, but if you are selling snakes with mites that is an issue people should be made aware of. I will e-mail you with links to the posts if you want to defend yourself on them.

Thank you,

Rebecca

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Lori Barczyk <[email protected]> wrote:
I just sent the return label so let me know if you did not receive it. All you need to do is print it off and put it on top of the box.


Thanks
Lori
BHB Enterprises

586-263-4686

--- On Thu, 12/8/11, Rebecca Wyman <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Rebecca Wyman <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: BHB Enterprises Inc. Purchase Order - 884
To: "Lori Barczyk" <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 9:14 AM

I will plan on getting her out to you tonight, if I can't I will send her out on Monday. I should be able to get a heat pack to put in the box. I know the owner of the local reptile shop routinely ships so he should have a heat pack or 2 I can buy from him. Do you want two heat packs in the box like she was packaged when you shipped her to me? I've never shipped a reptile before so my plan was to just swap out the heat packs and send her back to you in the same box.

Thank you for working with me to get this resolved quickly.

Rebecca

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Lori Barczyk <[email protected]> wrote:
I will send you a label today. Are you able to get a heat pack to put in the box?
The label will be good through Monday. If you can ship today for delivery Friday that will be fine. If not please do not ship until Monday as I do not want to snake to be in transit all weekend.
Thank you and again I apologize for the problems with this!


Thanks
Lori
BHB Enterprises

586-263-4686

--- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rebecca Wyman <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Rebecca Wyman <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: BHB Enterprises Inc. Purchase Order - 884
To: "Lori Barczyk" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 4:03 PM


Hi Lori,

I am going to take your offer of a full refund. I don't think I would ever feel comfortable trying to breed a female with a kink like she has. If it was just her tail and past her vent then it wouldn't be an issue. $225 is also more than I am willing to pay for just a pet, even one as pretty as she is. If you could send me a pre-paid shipping label and let me know which day would work best for you, I will ship her back to you. I am not able to ship her out tonight because I was already late to work and cannot leave early and I will be out of town on Tuesday the 13th, but I can ship her any other day.

Thank you,

Rebecca

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Lori Barczyk <[email protected]> wrote:
I can not believe that we did not catch that! I am so sorry. We have a few options that we can offer to remedy the situation. Brian looked at the pictures and does not believe that the kink will pose a problem when breeding. They are formed during incubation and are not genetic.
That being said if you want to keep her we are willing to give her to you at a %50 discount. We can either refund your money or you can use it as credit towards something else.
Or if you want to return her for a full refund we will be more than happy to do that as well.
Please let me know what you decide and again I apologize for that. We would never sell an animal like that to someone on purpose!

Thanks
Lori
BHB Enterprises

586-263-4686

--- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rebecca Wyman <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Rebecca Wyman <[email protected]>

Subject: Re: BHB Enterprises Inc. Purchase Order - 884
To: "Lori Barczyk" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 12:04 PM

The kink is about 3/4 of the way down her body, towards her tail. I've attached two pictures I took shortly after I got her out of the box. IMG_3018 shows roughly where it is on her body and IMG_3025 shows just how bad the kink is.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Lori Barczyk <[email protected]> wrote:
We did not notice a kink on her at all or it would have been mentioned for sure. I am very sorry about that! Where exactly is it at?



Thanks
Lori
BHB Enterprises

586-263-4686

--- On Wed, 12/7/11, Rebecca Wyman <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Rebecca Wyman <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: BHB Enterprises Inc. Purchase Order - 884
To: "'Lori Barczyk'" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:49 AM


Hi Lori,



I picked her up from FedEx and have her setup in her new home. She was plenty warm enough. I am disappointed though that you did not inform me of the kink near her tail. It was not mentioned on your site nor was it obvious from the photos you sent me. I was looking to possibly breed her in the future, but I don’t think that will be possible due to the kink.


Thank you,



Rebecca

 

[Temporalis_Enterprises]

Even though BHB missed a very noticeable kink, when you have 35,000 snakes it sometimes happens. Seems like Lori offered you a few options. As for the mites, I'm not going to comment...

 

[Reakt20]

Even though BHB missed a very noticeable kink, when you have 35,000 snakes it sometimes happens. Seems like Lori offered you a few options. As for the mites, I'm not going to comment...

I don't think the kink is what drew the line. im pretty sure it was the mites. thats bs. no bhb for me anymore.

 

[Tom C]

How you miss this kink is beyond me...

If everything you posted is accurate, just move along...not worth dealing w/ this kind of breeder....

 

[Tom C]

Another good point, how do you take this photo, upload it to your host,send it out and not notice the kink????

With all that said, you should not have missed it, it's obvious...

 

[Kinra]

Someone had to notice. You can't sex this snake with out noticing it has a kink and she was sold to me as a female. As soon as I am issued my refund I will consider the matter closed, but I thought people should know about the mites. This is not a bad guy thread, it's just an info thread.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Even though BHB missed a very noticeable kink, when you have 35,000 snakes it sometimes happens. Seems like Lori offered you a few options. As for the mites, I'm not going to comment...

Horrible attempt at a defense strategy... NO EXCUSE for this! Seriously, c'mon now!

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211323&highlight=reptiles

This link is a true story! A lotta non-sense and outlandish posts in here, including some of my doozy's. lol (I apology to quite a few here again). But, there ain't a wall or distance too far for me to go for a "family" member; as I consider Cliff! The person who ultimately got burned in the end.

<<<< WILL NEVER PURCHASE FROM YOU IF YOU DON'T DEW YOUR OWN STUFF! Excuses of employee mess up's, to theft, whoopsie daisy's, slip and slide's of eggs at birth by rotten employee's, and "oh; I didn't notice that's" do not fly with me!

I asked myself a question right now; "if you sell 35K snakes a year, why isn't there at least just 100 good guy threads posted on here yearly?" Why?

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

(My apology)

 

[Mike Schultz]

Lol mites happen to everybody, it sucks but it does... I'm kind of baffled that you are more concerned about a $10 lice shampoo treatment than the fact that your snake is bent in half.

 

[RJK890]

Man, I have never dealt with BHB before, but I do enjoy watching SnakeBytes TV, and have always thought that Brian seemed like good people.
He seems like a real asset to the Herp Community, and to the Hobby as a whole.

That said, they do seem to be having some issues with quality control over there lately.
I would say with customer service, but they seem to be trying to work things out with, and to satisfy their customers, after the issues arrive.

I hope they hire some diligent people, scale back, or whatever they need to do, in order to turn the ship around.
It would be a real shame if they went the way of 8-Ball Pythons.

 

[Mike Schultz]

I asked myself a question right now; "if you sell 35K snakes a year, why isn't there at least just 100 good guy threads posted on here yearly?" Why?

Because nobody really cares that much unless something goes wrong... do you go home and tell your wife "Man I had such an easy ride to work today!" every day or do you come home once a week saying "Holy hell traffic was balls today!!!"

 

[Kinra]

Lol mites happen to everybody, it sucks but it does... I'm kind of baffled that you are more concerned about a $10 lice shampoo treatment than the fact that your snake is bent in half.

I'm more concerned about the mites because they are a pain and even though the snake is no longer in my possession I still have to deal with them. I personally would never sell a snake with mites and I don't know anyone with a good reputation who would. There is no excuse really for any of it but I can see the kink issue being a serious miss communication. Yes mites happen to everyone but it's something you correct instead of selling snakes that still have them.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Because nobody really cares that much unless something goes wrong... do you go home and tell your wife "Man I had such an easy ride to work today!" every day or do you come home once a week saying "Holy hell traffic was balls today!!!"

I beg to differ my friend. People are touting "proper" sales these days left and right. Tis' the season!

 

[Get Sum]

Wow and WOW!!!

Someone had to notice. You can't sex this snake with out noticing it has a kink and she was sold to me as a female. As soon as I am issued my refund I will consider the matter closed, but I thought people should know about the mites. This is not a bad guy thread, it's just an info thread.

There is absolutely no excuse for sending out a snake in that condition. If they have mites in one animal, I would assume they probably have mites on dozens if not hundreds.
1st they should have treated the animal of mites before they shipped it out to you. Nobody wants to add mites to their quarantine area and possibly their collection!
2nd That kink can be spotted from a mile away, They would have noticed it when she first hatched, they would have noticed it when they sexed the animal, they would have noticed it when the took the pictures and they would have noticed it when they bagged the snake up.

I don't care if Lori offered you a sterling female as a replacement to try to make things right! I personally don't care how big they are and how much they have done for the herp community. That animal needs to be donated as a pet to someone, not sold off hoping the buyer doesn't know any better!

Thank you Rebecca for posting this thread and sharing all of your documentation as proof. I have seen some smaller breeders that have been black-balled here for far less.

P.S. I am certain you will love your new Pewter girl! You will see her on Wednesday

-Jason Weinrich

 

[Mike Schultz]

I'm more concerned about the mites because they are a pain and even though the snake is no longer in my possession I still have to deal with them. I personally would never sell a snake with mites and I don't know anyone with a good reputation who would. There is no excuse really for any of it but I can see the kink issue being a serious miss communication. Yes mites happen to everyone but it's something you correct instead of selling snakes that still have them.

What i'm saying is it's way easier to legitimately miss the one or two mites you found... It's not like they sent those on purpose. Kink = miscommunication, Mites = probably didnt even notice.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Excellent post Jason! Just their pics of their snakes on that "stuff" they use... Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeamssssss mite infestation!

There is absolutely no excuse for sending out a snake in that condition. If they have mites in one animal, I would assume they probably have mites on dozens if not hundreds.
1st they should have treated the animal of mites before they shipped it out to you. Nobody wants to add mites to their quarantine area and possibly their collection!
2nd That kink can be spotted from a mile away, They would have noticed it when she first hatched, they would have noticed it when they sexed the animal, they would have noticed it when the took the pictures and they would have noticed it when they bagged the snake up.

I don't care if Lori offered you a sterling female as a replacement to try to make things right! I personally don't care how big they are and how much they have done for the herp community. That animal needs to be donated as a pet to someone, not sold off hoping the buyer doesn't know any better!

Thank you Rebecca for posting this thread and sharing all of your documentation as proof. I have seen some smaller breeders that have been black-balled here for far less.

P.S. I am certain you will love your new Pewter girl! You will see her on Wednesday

-Jason Weinrich

 

[tarawr]

I saw this very snake in person tonight. That kink is awful, but it seems like there were 3-4 mites, unless I saw the same ones multiple times without realizing. Being fairly new with herps, I took it as a great learning experience (seeing mites in person rather than just via pics online).

Seems BHB is dropping the ball more and more these days... not entirely sure I would want to buy from them after the "het not proving out/lack of communication" thread, and especially now that I've seen this. Hope you do get your refund and that you don't have THAT many mites in your QT area/collection!

 

[~Just Curious~]

Wow, I honestly can't believe that nobody caught that major of a kink. Crazy! I know they have a lot of snakes, but I think they should at least give them a brief once-over before they box them. =\ I'm glad that they promptly took responsibility and fixed that for you though, that's good.

Since they carry so many, I wouldn't be too surprised if they had mites either but... If the mites were the huge issue for you and were the entire point of this warning thread as you said, then I wish you would have taken a picture of those like you did with the kink. Maybe it's just me. ^^; Hope they didn't spread any for you, good thing you practiced quarantine!

 

[Tom C]

Mites = probably didnt even notice.
__________________

At the rate mites multiply, i find that highly unlikely.They may not have noticed the mites on the snake, but they definitely know they have an infestation.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I asked myself a question right now; "if you sell 35K snakes a year, why isn't there at least just 100 good guy threads posted on here yearly?" Why?

To be fair, you are quoting someone here on this thread 35,000 not BHB and he stated that they have 35,000 not that they sell that much each year. But heck maybe they do, what do I know?

Also to be fair on the point of good guy threads, Brian has many here on this current site dating back to 2002. He also has many previous to the date on the earlier versions of this site. All I can say is that I never read a bad guy thread about them until recently. That's many years without any problems. Now that isn't to discount the concerns you have with them but just stating what I have seen over the years.

As far as this thread, I think it would be darn near impossible for anyone paying attention not to notice that kink. Also, I'm not going to nitpick but the request to send back on a Thursday is something I would never do but that's just me.