Bad Guy Bigpimpen22 led me on a wild goose chase.

[michaellosoya]

Here is the last one.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Here are the emails, I'll get the texts up next. The conversation goes from the bottom up.

From: michael losoya <[email protected]>;
To: Chris Wilder <[email protected]>;
Subject: Re: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:18:16 PM

I don't really need one of those at the moment but the deposit will work just fine. Which female is it that you want? My paypal account is [email protected] and I will hold her for you. Just let me know. Thanks,

Mike

On Apr 12, 2012, at 7:33 AM, Chris Wilder wrote:

And if your not interested n tha trade I can give u 100 down on her so she won't go anywhere lol

I think you should give him back his deposit. The agreement was not that you would hold it until the weekend for the $100.

 

[michaellosoya]

Yes, he agreed to get her the first Sunday, then said he would give me another $100 to hold her another week and didn't. Which he already admitted to. He wouldn't even contact me about getting her, I always had to ask him if he was going to get her or not, which always ended with something to the likes of "I don't have the money now" or multiple ER visits (seems fishy to me). I hope it isn't true, but wouldn't you think someone making trips to the ER with a negative account would need the money for medical bills instead of buying a snake? I learned my lesson and won't be doing anymore holds. First come, first served. Look at the dates of how long he didn't contact me about her, would you believe he was really going to come up with the money after so many excuses?

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Here are the texts. Note that Bigpimpen22 said in his first post on the thread that he had the money. He clearly stated in his text that his account was negative. I also want to point out again that he did no put the other $100 in my account to hold her longer. Also, each time it came down to the determined day of sale, I was the one that had to contact him, which was always accompanied by an excuse.

Read the first text above again. He told you he had the money. Yes he agreed to meet you on the first weekend but you didn't tell him if he was unable to he would forfeit his deposit. Refund his deposit.

 

[djfishygillz]

After reading all this I would just recommend refunding 50 dollars and meet in the middle and drop the situation.

 

[Sushi Dragons]

I think the seller needs to refund the deposit. Just because most "snake companies" do not offer refunds on deposits, does not mean that you can hold the buyer to this standard. You do not have a TOS to fall back on, nor did you ever say up front that the deposit was non-refundable.

Things might have been different if the seller had said up front that the buyer was never going to see that $100 again regardless of if the sale went through. Maybe he would have proceeded with the deposit, maybe he would have held off until all the money was in one place. But it was his choice to make regarding what amounts to a donation of $100. You have no legal right to claim it even though he strung you along.

In the future, make your expectations clear from the very beginning. General industry standards do not globally apply to everyone buying and selling herps. Each transaction is an individual experience and you need to treat it as such.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I agree with Lucille and Willow. The buyer wasted too much of the seller's time with empty promises. Regardless of whether some of you believe that the seller wasn't clear in the beginning, I do not think that the buyer should profit from his jerking the seller around.

I further do not ever give anyone refunds that attempt to play (in my opinion) obvious games. I believe that pandering to this kind of customer will have more coming out of the woodwork as the word spreads that "any seller being "unclear" has to give the money back..."

Industry standard or no...it would be common sense for me to know that I forfeit my deposit if I lie and jerk the seller around. A business deal is based on "good faith" on both sides. Regardless of whether or not the seller was unclear in the beginning and didn't say the words, "If you don't...you forfeit..." it's clear to me that the seller did not break the "Good faith" agreement. The buyer did, and thus, imo, HE forfeits.

 

[michaellosoya]

If someone asks you, "Will you take $100 dollars to hold a snake" and you ask when to they want to get it and they say "Sunday" , isn't that an agreement??? I will have to meet the buyer at the notary to have people sign on agreements from now on (I guess). I go to school and work full time, so when I have to take days off from work and lose more than the deposit amount covers, and continuous delays, the transaction it becomes more than just time (ie: time in the library etc), but apparently some people people don't value agreements or other people's time anymore. I made sure it was clear that I needed the money soon and the payment I received payment to HOLD and no further payments were made. Think, what would you expect from someone who backed out on you so many times? If he had just said he didn't have the money to buy her weeks ago, instead of stringing me along, this would have ended differently. Anyways, I'm tired of defending myself when I need to be studying.

 

[michaellosoya]

Thank you Deborah.

 

[Fangthane]

Seems like it comes down to a philosophical question: With the lack of a posted TOS, what happens when a problem occurs? The argument could easily be made that, in such an event, terms could/should default to the industry "standard". Which, although I have no experience with down payment situations, all that I've read has made me think that the idea of a non-refundable security deposit was more or less universal. At least in a situation where the buyer doesn't follow through.

 

[farfrumugen]

im on the fence on this one. there was no tos but Ive always assumed a deposit is a non refundable transaction. now IF his family really was sick and he just couldn't do it then i would lean more to giving his money back. but if hes just blowing smoke then i would say keep the deposit. if his family really was sick then it comes down to your own customer satisfaction. if hes yanking your chain and just cant come up with the cash then hes not owed anything.
id ask for proof that his family was sick. if he can provide that then id refund his money. if not then he is yanking your chain and i would not pay him anything.
adam jeffery

 

[Willow]

id ask for proof that his family was sick. if he can provide that then id refund his money. if not then he is yanking your chain and i would not pay him anything.
adam jeffery

I've seen that pop up in a BOI before. It is a good idea if the seller was willing.

 

[Sushi Dragons]

I agree, it isn't fair to call him out as a "liar" without giving him a chance to back up his claims.

 

[deborahbroadus]

My instincts, as many others here, is pretty good, but I never claimed to be infallible. If that's what it takes, go for it.

Ok, buyer please present your evidence? If you have any, I'll apologize for my assumptions.

 

[bigpimpen22]

Will do

 

[bazzgazm]

I'm just gonna chime in and say that the money shouldn't have been spent before the transaction was finished, whether or not refunded.....
All situations are a case by case scenerio, and this was by no means the worst i've ever seen... Good luck to you guys getting this ironed out as best you can...
Just so you know, my LOCAL PET STORE Has non-refundable deposits, but they can be used toward anything in the store. So if you put down 500$ on a 2000$ snake... and something came up where you couldn't afford it.. you could still spend 500$ on something else. It's just the money doesn't leave the store... buyer still gets something and seller still has a happy customer (or as happy as can be)

 

[mikepanzarella]

i can see both sides of this i was stuck with the same thing when i 1st came on fauna a guy left a deposit for $100 1/5 the cost of the deal he told me he would pay within 7 days
8 days later he asked for another 4 days i then didnt hear from him again till after 2 week mark i had another buyer lined up and was going to sell in the morning lucky the payment was sent without warning lol for the balance now it crossed my mind to keep the deposit as i was well within my rights under the terms he set but had that payment not come that morning and i sold the snake i would of sent him his deposit back non refundable or not it would of been the right thing to do

i dont think you would be wrong for keeping the money but its really not right either its not like this was a long drawn out thing over a few months were talking about a few weeks
yes it sucks and alot of people are going to waste your time with bull like this but i think this is a case of be the better person and stick to not doing holds in the future

 

[bigpimpen22]

here is proof

 

[deborahbroadus]

Where's the proof of the rest of the excuses, and please enlarge this, I can't read it.

Thanks!

 

[bigpimpen22]

im not putting personal info on here im sorry but i will enlarge it for you