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Bad Guy Bill Cagle ripped me off!

B

brodie691

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Ok so there are NO e:mails first and formost. This all took place at the Birmingham Reptile Show in Alabama. I met Bill there and after much talking back and forth i figured it would be allright. At the time he was vending there every single month so i didn't think i had anything to worry about. This was in June of last year. Throughout the show he had stated that he wanted a few boas off of me, and i asked him if he just wanted to carry them all for me and sell them. He said sure! He ended up getting an adult male Kahl Albino, some Aby line boas, Hypos that had come from EBN, and some adult females. We agreed upon him taking them and selling them for me at some of the other shows he attended. I priced them low in order for himself to make a considerable amount of money on them, and that he would pay me as they sold. That day never came. I saw him a handful of times after that, and like a child he would duck and run when he saw me coming, not wanting to pony up and give me what was rightfully mine.
It has been several months now and he no longer attends the show, or any shows that i know of, and he WILL NOT return phone calls.
I am putting all the information together and getting ready to summon him to small claims court. I estimated that he owes me around $1500 as that was what was agreed upon. Lesson learned in this case.
Just thought i would warn others on this forum as I have talked to some of the other vendors and he owes them as well. It's a shame that a grown man in their 40's has to run and hide like a child.
Anyone who knows me knows that despite no e:mail proof, knows that this is exactly what happened. I wouldn't just make something like this up, and i feel as if i have waited long enough for a response from Bill.

Matthew Watkins
 
brodie691 said:
I am putting all the information together and getting ready to summon him to small claims court.
Click to expand...

What information is that? So far, you have told us of a verbal agreement not reduced to writing. No emails, where you sent him a payment reminder? Have you sent him a written payment reminder? Were there any witnesses to the agreement? What exactly are you planning to say in court to prove that this agreement was made?

I'm not at all taking a side one way or the other (yet), and I don't know either of y'all, but it seems to me if you call someone out with this sort of accusation, you should be prepared with more facts than I see here. I hope for you, that all further transactions you might make in the future will have a memorialization in writing.

I did do a search on Bill Cagle's name here on the BOI and found quite a bit of information. The information I found would definitely have definitely influenced any transaction I might have been planning. Did you avail yourself of the ability to do a free search of the BOI prior to the transaction?

Have you let him know of this thread?
 
lucille said:
What information is that? So far, you have told us of a verbal agreement not reduced to writing. No emails, where you sent him a payment reminder? Have you sent him a written payment reminder? Were there any witnesses to the agreement? What exactly are you planning to say in court to prove that this agreement was made?

I'm not at all taking a side one way or the other (yet), and I don't know either of y'all, but it seems to me if you call someone out with this sort of accusation, you should be prepared with more facts than I see here. I hope for you, that all further transactions you might make in the future will have a memorialization in writing.

I did do a search on Bill Cagle's name here on the BOI and found quite a bit of information. The information I found would definitely have definitely influenced any transaction I might have been planning. Did you avail yourself of the ability to do a free search of the BOI prior to the transaction?

Have you let him know of this thread?
Click to expand...

Yes, i was vending a show and checking the BOI at the same time....... I stated in the beginning that NO i did not have any e:mails. Does he even have an e:mail address? Did i also mention that he wouldn't answer any of my calls? I simply made this entire story up just for giggles! Seriously???
If you did read about Bill Cagle, then i think if you KNEW of his reputation that it would be sufficed to say the he has NO reputation.
YES, there were many witnesses to this deal gone south, many that probably have never been here to post nor ever will.
I have a stellar reputation in this business and anyone that knows me or of me knows that i have NO reason to make any of this up.
How much proof is it that you exactly want? Sure it is my word here, as that is all the proof i have, but......... I can guarantee that this WORD of my own is as good as gold in the industry, and can pretty much guarantee anyone that knows me knows just that much.
I think that i stated beforehand that there were no e:mails. That i was vending a show, and at the end of the show i let him carry the animals home to sell at other shows he would be attending.
I tell you what, you don't believe me? Then send him some of your animals in good faith (i did so in may of 08') then let me know when he pays you. Ok?

Matthew Watkins
 
You know i have been debating ever starting this thread because of the NO "e:mail" factor for several months. Why? Because i knew that when i did i would have someone if not more that would question the validity of my claim. I'm not so sure that i can post unanswered voicemails on here or i would do so. I wouldn't even know of an e:mail address that Bill Cagle has if in fact he even has one.
Should I have just let this die? Let someone else get taken as well? I think that by me coming here to suffer the possible brunt of negativity that this could impose on me for not having written documentation that should count for something. I run a business, and it's quite lucrative. This was the one instance that i felt i would help a fellow herper out as i thought he had a great reputation, but it seems i was a terrible judge in character.
In my opinion he may have gotten me, but i am TRYING to do what i can to help others. When put through the grinder by being questioned (when if you look i have nothing but positive things said about myself) that it would be apparent that i would not just try to tarnish another reputable breeders name out of spite. I have had NO harsh words with Bill, as there has simply been NO contact back from him.
I'm NOT hard to deal with. I wouldn't care if Bill just paid me $20 on what he owed me once every blue moon, at least i would consider the effort he had put forward in doing so. EVeryone falls on hard times, but if you EVER talked to Bill in person you would think that is the sum of his life's story. I felt a bit sorry for the guy, so in turn i tried to help him out. I have nothing to hide here, but i also simply do not have ANY written documents either, just my word. I would think in my effort to warn others about him that this MIGHT count for something.
As far as i know i don't think you'll find not one negative thread about me on the BOI. As far as he goes, i think if you look hard enough you might find several. If common sense were to be used in light of that, then who do you think that you'd be inclined to believe???

Matthew Watkins
 
brodie691 said:
I tell you what, you don't believe me? Then send him some of your animals in good faith (i did so in may of 08') then let me know when he pays you. Ok?

Matthew Watkins
Click to expand...

No need for hostility, I was asking what you would bring with you to court.
You may have a stellar rep, but if you bring someone to court you need more, or else those with a good rep would win their cases, without any preparation, 100% of the time over those who had poor reps, and who may or may not be guilty in that particular instance.
 
You're not being attacked, you were asked what you would bring to court.
If you say you're gathering stuff for court, people would be able to say "Yeah, he's got xxx he must be legit!"
It's too bad he ran out on a debt, and I hope you can run him to ground and collect your due funds.
 
Dixie Reptiles said:
Matt leave the B,ham show out of this,I really do not need the negative publicity.
Click to expand...

Terry NO ONE is saying the Birmingham show is what caused this, as we both know that Bill attended and vended many other shows. It's just that this is where it took place. Nothing i said is remotely negative against the Birmingham show that i am aware of???
You know i support that show. This could have happened ANYWHERE, it just so happened that we both were vending there at that time. Similar instances have happened at other shows, so i don't think i was saying that it was in any way mutually exclusive to happening at your show. I really don't see (and maybe i'm not looking at this correctly) how it could have any negativity on your show, as I'd vouch for you and that show in a minute.
This has nothing to do with the Birmingham show, and everything to do with Bill.

Matthew Watkins
 
Wolfy-hound said:
You're not being attacked, you were asked what you would bring to court.
If you say you're gathering stuff for court, people would be able to say "Yeah, he's got xxx he must be legit!"
It's too bad he ran out on a debt, and I hope you can run him to ground and collect your due funds.
Click to expand...

Yeah i was looking at the whole picture at first (leaving such a bad distaste), maybe through a fish eye lense? when I started this. It was early morning and i was irritated. Truth is, unless i see the guy, i probably will just have to eat this debt he owes myself. It's a good lesson learned though in hindsight. Maybe by me posting this he won't be able to rape anyone else out of what is rightfully their own.
You know i really liked Bill too, it's a shame. If he would just come forth with something. Money, animals, a phone call to let me know he even REMOTELY remembers owing me, then i would be inclined to come forth and apologize. The fact remains at this point in time though, he is not offering ANYTHING. It's almost as if he has dropped off the face of the planet. I've tried catching him at other shows i know he's attended, and NOTHING.
I hate having to resort to this, but DAMN some people need a swift kick in the ass sometimes to get their memories back to working correctly. I couldn't imagine owing someone for something that is rightfully theirs, and then just basically stealing it by not paying them what is truly their own.

matthew watkins
 
brodie691 said:
Truth is, unless i see the guy, i probably will just have to eat this debt he owes myself.
Click to expand...



Have you searched for a business address? You can send a registered letter with a request for payment, with a specific invoice. You say there were witnesses, could you request written accounts from them of this purported deal?

You don't necessarily have to give up, but it might take work and research to create the kind of framework you can then use to try to recover any losses you say you incurred.

Have you looked into possible business loss deductions?

You say you know of other vendors in similar situations. It may well be worth contacting them and working together on a common goal.
 
brodie691 said:
If he would just come forth with something. Money, animals, a phone call to let me know he even REMOTELY remembers owing me, then i would be inclined to come forth and apologize.
Click to expand...

Apologize for what? Dude, get rid of that mindset.
 
Ok so this is going to sound really strange, as it completely blew me away!
Last night i was on my way to this girls house to hang out and had the nashville rock station on the radio. Well they started Taking calls to win Metallica tickets for the concert in September. Wanna guess who the winning caller was???
You guessed right! The DJ asked who was calling, the voice on the phone said "Bill Cagle, Monteagle TN".
I, if i am correct, remember that this is where he lives. Cannot say for certain it was him, but the voice was SO familiar. It blew me away! If it was him, and i am fairly certain it was, then that in itself proves to me he has access to a phone. Damn Shame if so!

matthew watkins
 
lucille said:
Apologize for what? Dude, get rid of that mindset.
Click to expand...

Yeah i know, i really owe him No apology. I just am a nice guy and hate tarnishing ANYONE'S reputation, so feel somewhat guilty even after the fact he has done this to me.
I just don't want to see anyone else get suckered into this and get taken.
These kind of posts make me sick to be involved in, but the truth had to come out as this happened at the show last May. I think a year is an ample amount of time for someone to either contact you and make things right, or at the very least let you know that they have not forgot you.

matthew watkins
 
brodie691 said:
Yeah i know, i really owe him No apology. I just am a nice guy and hate tarnishing ANYONE'S reputation, so feel somewhat guilty even after the fact he has done this to me.
I just don't want to see anyone else get suckered into this and get taken.
These kind of posts make me sick to be involved in, but the truth had to come out as this happened at the show last May. I think a year is an ample amount of time for someone to either contact you and make things right, or at the very least let you know that they have not forgot you.

matthew watkins
Click to expand...

Ripping off a false veneer to show people what the true color is underneath cannot be classified as "tarnishing their reputation", in my opinion. If the truth displays a less than favorable picture of a person, then whose fault is that?
 
WebSlave said:
Ripping off a false veneer to show people what the true color is underneath cannot be classified as "tarnishing their reputation", in my opinion. If the truth displays a less than favorable picture of a person, then whose fault is that?
Click to expand...

You're right Rich. I just think at times i give people too much credit, and at other times not enough. In this case i suppose since i do feel a bit "sorry" for the guy in a way, i am giving far too much credit.
I suppose i should just call outright a spade, a spade!

Matthew Watkins
 
Matthew-

It was brought to my attention by someone I respect, that perhaps I should have toned myself down a bit with all those questions. Sorry. I'm hoping you get together with those other guys you said had also had some problems, and maybe get this resolved.
 
Of course you're irritable, you were ripped off. Just remember, the BOI is never on the side of the scammer. We want to help you get your money if at all possible.
Since you have his name and city he lives in, can you search for more information that way? Search for a phone number under his name, a address to send a letter to? Anything? If he vended at the Birmingham Show, could they have personal contact information they got from him in order for him to have a table?
With the internets and all, very few people manage to stay totally anonymous.
 
Was there no paper and pens available at the show? Why didn't you at least scribble down an agreement and sign it and have it witnessed when the transaction took place? That document could have saved you a ton of trouble. Hopefully, you learned a lessen. Good luck in this.
 
Just wanted to let everyone know that Bill Cagle called me several months ago promising to make this right, and has still YET to do anything... Common thief...
 
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