weird_science04
New member
Hi everyone! I have not posted to this site before but I am a member of Clay English's RTB forum and I am relatively active on that forum. I now have 8 snakes and I have had boas for some years now. My snakes have never had any problems and temps, humidity, and caging has always been excellent.
At the May 2008 reptile show, I purchased 2 snakes from Bill Cagle. A north Brazilian red tail (4 months old) and a hypo-suri (1.5 - 2 months old). I was very pleased with the animals and very pleased with Bill Cagle. We talked for well over 2 hours and I left feeling really good about the sale. Shortly after, during feeding, I couldn't get the hypo-suri to eat. Since he was so young, I felt I needed to get him to eat. So I called Bill Cagle, only to find out the number he gave me was disconnected. I emailed him and told him the situation. Then I got on Clay's site and asked for advice, which was great and got the suri to eat. Now the suri eats every week with no issues and is doing great. Bill emailed me back and told me to feed live and gave me his cell phone number. Since I had already gotten him to eat f/t, I didn't try calling Bill.
The problem started with the Brazilian (Sabbath). First, I noticed mites on him. Never seen mites before, so I needed advice about how to deal with them. So I got advice on Clay's site. I ordered Provent-a-mite (PAM) and I started soaking Sabbath, gave a different smaller cage with only paper towels and a water dish. Never saw many mites on him but continued soaking him everyday.
After I noticed the mites on him, I walked in the bedroom (my quarantine room) and saw Sabbath bubbling at the mouth and not closing his mouth. So I got him out and looked at him. This was May 22. On May 24, 2008, I took him to the vet. She said he had a respiratory infection. He freely gave a fecal in the vet's hand. The fecal indicated worms and an overload of protozoa. She said she didn't see any mites on him and wondered if the bugs I saw were ticks because he had big bumps on his back near his spine (now). She prescribed metronidazole, febendazole, and fortaz. I had never given oral or sub-coetaneous shots before, so I had to learn.
I tried to call Bill Cagle now on his cell phone and he would never answer. I called him for weeks, 2-3 times a day leaving messages. I didn't send any emails because he said he doesn't have a computer to check them. I finally emailed him telling him about the snake on May 28. The email said:
"Hi Bill,
I have tried to call you several times. I am upset with the fact you will not answer the phone. This makes me feel like you knew something was wrong with this snake and you feel guilty about it. I hope this is not the case but when you avoid a situation, then I can't help but feel this way. I would like to know more information about the background of the North Brazilian. Also, he is very sick and he is on 3 medicines. 2 oral and 1 injection. Everday he looks worst and I don't know why. I hope he can pull through especially since I just spent almost 200 at the vet for him in addition to what I paid you. I was so happy when I got home about the sale but now I wish I would have bought elsewhere. I got the suri to eat and he is eating well. Not only is the Brazilian sick, he is also infested with mites. I ordered provent-a-mite but I am afraid that it will kill him because he is too weak. I don't want him to die. I want to get him healthy again and have a great beautiful snake but I NEED HELP to get him back to normal. I have never dealt with everything he is going through. While I am not shying away from the experience, I don't want to do something wrong.
Please Contact me.
Star"
Since I took Sabbath to the vet, he has refused to eat (May 24). So I fed him a live mouse on June 4 but his prior meal was May 14. He ate. On June 1st, he had a perfect shed, which I was excited about.
On June 18th, I noticed central nervous system (CNS) symptoms. I went into the bedroom (quarantine room) and saw Sabbath's head upside down underneath his body. I got him out and his head was ticking. After it stopped, I flipped him over and he righted himself up just fine. Then I gave him his medicine. I put him back and he started going up the side of the cage with the top of his head on the glass. It was weird! So I contacted the vet and she told me that it could be a number of things from IBD to heat to a reaction to the meds. I figured it might be the heat because he NEVER leaves the heat. He has been under the heat since May until today. He leaves, gets a drink, and comes right back. Doesn't hide - nothing, just sits under the heat, which is around 88-90 degrees.
On June 9th, Bill Cagle called me finally. We spoke for over an hour on the phone. I told him everything going on with the snake. I read him the vet report. I asked him about the snake, the background. He said he got the snake from Matt White at the show and Matt got him from Eugene Bessett. He gave me Matt's phone number so I could get some background information. I asked Bill if this snake was wild caught or farmed/ranched. Bill also apologized for not calling me back and told me he was out of town for over 3 weeks doing construction work. His wife had the cell phone. I accepted this. He also said that IF the snake died or I had to put him down, he would replace the snake or refund my money. I told him that I honestly just wanted this snake to pull through but thanks for the help and I would keep him updated.
I called Matt White on June 9th. He said Bill did purchase a snake from him and sold it for exactly what I paid for him. I told Matt what was going on with the snake and he said he didn't think that was the snake Bill got from him. He claimed Bill had a bunch of brazilians, which Bill only had one other when I was there. Then we got disconnected and I thought Matt hung up on me. On June 12th, Matt called me back. He asked for a picture of the snake and told me that if the snake dies, he would replace it. I told Matt, no, it was not his responsibility and Bill said he would take responsibility for the snake since I got it from him. I emailed Matt a picture and this is the email back from Matt:
"Not mine. I have never had or owned that snake.
Sorry
Matt White
VMWREPTILES
706-888-6287"
I finally PAM'd his and the hypo-suri's cage on June 29 for mites. I wasn't seeing many mites and I wanted to wait for the RI to be gone. For a while, this snake was eating well and started to look better. The RI left and he overall looked better. Then I noticed he looked swelled. I picked him up and I could hear crackling sounds towards the end of his body. I called my vet again (I am sure she is getting sick of me by now...lol). She said he probably has gas and he might have Crypto, which there is no cure for. I called Bill Cagle and told him about this on June 29th. He actually answered the phone and I was feeling better about him just for that. He also assured me that IF this snake dies or I have to put it down, he will replace it.
On July 2, I looked at Sabbath and he looked like he had lost weight. His tail was way too small and his body still looked swelled or bloated. He had started to refuse to eat again. So on July 7, I fed him a live mouse and he regurged it within 30 minutes or less. In the regurge was also his June 21st meal (hopper mouse) that looked to still be intact. I called the vet again. She said she is leaning more towards crypto now that he is not digesting his meals the way he should be. The test is really expensive and I don’t' have the money for it, but she said there is no cure and it is contagious not only to all 15 animals I have but to my husband and I.
I posted on Clay's site and asked for advice once again about the regurge. I know I need to wait a couple of weeks before feeding but he is a different case. Many people agreed that this snake needed to eat one way or another and to try feeding him within a couple of days. Some people even told me that if I need to euthanize him, not to feel bad since I have done everything I could. These people have been with me since I got him, helping me out and knowing what I have been going through. After this regurge, I really started worrying about having to put this snake down and having a necropsy done on him. I called the vet to ask how much it will cost.
I tried to feed him on the 10th of July and he refused. I made the decision that if he did not eat this past weekend, I would call the vet on the 14th and set the appointment up. However, on Sunday, July 13th, he looked better. He didn't look bloated or anything. I fed him f/t and he hunted that mouse down like he was hungry! I was really excited about him eating. He hasn't regurged but today, he looks swelled and bloated again!
I have tried calling Bill since the 11th and his cellphone no longer works. Bill - if you read this post...PLEASE contact me about this snake.
I don't know what to do with this snake. I don't want to jeopordize my other snakes but I don't want to hastily put him down either. I have 1 Emerald Tree Boa, 1 normal colombian, 1 albino normal, 1 hypo normal, 1 rescued ball python, 1 corn, and the 2 snakes from Bill in quarantine.
This has been my experience and a breeder named Noe Perez from Illinois has spent a great deal of his time helping me with this snake over the phone. He is an awesome person and through him, the vet, and RTB's, I feel I have been able to help this snake as much as I can. Through his recommendations, I talk about this experience on the BOI so others can make a better decision about buying from Bill.
Sorry for the length, but I didn't want to leave anything out.
Star
At the May 2008 reptile show, I purchased 2 snakes from Bill Cagle. A north Brazilian red tail (4 months old) and a hypo-suri (1.5 - 2 months old). I was very pleased with the animals and very pleased with Bill Cagle. We talked for well over 2 hours and I left feeling really good about the sale. Shortly after, during feeding, I couldn't get the hypo-suri to eat. Since he was so young, I felt I needed to get him to eat. So I called Bill Cagle, only to find out the number he gave me was disconnected. I emailed him and told him the situation. Then I got on Clay's site and asked for advice, which was great and got the suri to eat. Now the suri eats every week with no issues and is doing great. Bill emailed me back and told me to feed live and gave me his cell phone number. Since I had already gotten him to eat f/t, I didn't try calling Bill.
The problem started with the Brazilian (Sabbath). First, I noticed mites on him. Never seen mites before, so I needed advice about how to deal with them. So I got advice on Clay's site. I ordered Provent-a-mite (PAM) and I started soaking Sabbath, gave a different smaller cage with only paper towels and a water dish. Never saw many mites on him but continued soaking him everyday.
After I noticed the mites on him, I walked in the bedroom (my quarantine room) and saw Sabbath bubbling at the mouth and not closing his mouth. So I got him out and looked at him. This was May 22. On May 24, 2008, I took him to the vet. She said he had a respiratory infection. He freely gave a fecal in the vet's hand. The fecal indicated worms and an overload of protozoa. She said she didn't see any mites on him and wondered if the bugs I saw were ticks because he had big bumps on his back near his spine (now). She prescribed metronidazole, febendazole, and fortaz. I had never given oral or sub-coetaneous shots before, so I had to learn.
I tried to call Bill Cagle now on his cell phone and he would never answer. I called him for weeks, 2-3 times a day leaving messages. I didn't send any emails because he said he doesn't have a computer to check them. I finally emailed him telling him about the snake on May 28. The email said:
"Hi Bill,
I have tried to call you several times. I am upset with the fact you will not answer the phone. This makes me feel like you knew something was wrong with this snake and you feel guilty about it. I hope this is not the case but when you avoid a situation, then I can't help but feel this way. I would like to know more information about the background of the North Brazilian. Also, he is very sick and he is on 3 medicines. 2 oral and 1 injection. Everday he looks worst and I don't know why. I hope he can pull through especially since I just spent almost 200 at the vet for him in addition to what I paid you. I was so happy when I got home about the sale but now I wish I would have bought elsewhere. I got the suri to eat and he is eating well. Not only is the Brazilian sick, he is also infested with mites. I ordered provent-a-mite but I am afraid that it will kill him because he is too weak. I don't want him to die. I want to get him healthy again and have a great beautiful snake but I NEED HELP to get him back to normal. I have never dealt with everything he is going through. While I am not shying away from the experience, I don't want to do something wrong.
Please Contact me.
Star"
Since I took Sabbath to the vet, he has refused to eat (May 24). So I fed him a live mouse on June 4 but his prior meal was May 14. He ate. On June 1st, he had a perfect shed, which I was excited about.
On June 18th, I noticed central nervous system (CNS) symptoms. I went into the bedroom (quarantine room) and saw Sabbath's head upside down underneath his body. I got him out and his head was ticking. After it stopped, I flipped him over and he righted himself up just fine. Then I gave him his medicine. I put him back and he started going up the side of the cage with the top of his head on the glass. It was weird! So I contacted the vet and she told me that it could be a number of things from IBD to heat to a reaction to the meds. I figured it might be the heat because he NEVER leaves the heat. He has been under the heat since May until today. He leaves, gets a drink, and comes right back. Doesn't hide - nothing, just sits under the heat, which is around 88-90 degrees.
On June 9th, Bill Cagle called me finally. We spoke for over an hour on the phone. I told him everything going on with the snake. I read him the vet report. I asked him about the snake, the background. He said he got the snake from Matt White at the show and Matt got him from Eugene Bessett. He gave me Matt's phone number so I could get some background information. I asked Bill if this snake was wild caught or farmed/ranched. Bill also apologized for not calling me back and told me he was out of town for over 3 weeks doing construction work. His wife had the cell phone. I accepted this. He also said that IF the snake died or I had to put him down, he would replace the snake or refund my money. I told him that I honestly just wanted this snake to pull through but thanks for the help and I would keep him updated.
I called Matt White on June 9th. He said Bill did purchase a snake from him and sold it for exactly what I paid for him. I told Matt what was going on with the snake and he said he didn't think that was the snake Bill got from him. He claimed Bill had a bunch of brazilians, which Bill only had one other when I was there. Then we got disconnected and I thought Matt hung up on me. On June 12th, Matt called me back. He asked for a picture of the snake and told me that if the snake dies, he would replace it. I told Matt, no, it was not his responsibility and Bill said he would take responsibility for the snake since I got it from him. I emailed Matt a picture and this is the email back from Matt:
"Not mine. I have never had or owned that snake.
Sorry
Matt White
VMWREPTILES
706-888-6287"
I finally PAM'd his and the hypo-suri's cage on June 29 for mites. I wasn't seeing many mites and I wanted to wait for the RI to be gone. For a while, this snake was eating well and started to look better. The RI left and he overall looked better. Then I noticed he looked swelled. I picked him up and I could hear crackling sounds towards the end of his body. I called my vet again (I am sure she is getting sick of me by now...lol). She said he probably has gas and he might have Crypto, which there is no cure for. I called Bill Cagle and told him about this on June 29th. He actually answered the phone and I was feeling better about him just for that. He also assured me that IF this snake dies or I have to put it down, he will replace it.
On July 2, I looked at Sabbath and he looked like he had lost weight. His tail was way too small and his body still looked swelled or bloated. He had started to refuse to eat again. So on July 7, I fed him a live mouse and he regurged it within 30 minutes or less. In the regurge was also his June 21st meal (hopper mouse) that looked to still be intact. I called the vet again. She said she is leaning more towards crypto now that he is not digesting his meals the way he should be. The test is really expensive and I don’t' have the money for it, but she said there is no cure and it is contagious not only to all 15 animals I have but to my husband and I.
I posted on Clay's site and asked for advice once again about the regurge. I know I need to wait a couple of weeks before feeding but he is a different case. Many people agreed that this snake needed to eat one way or another and to try feeding him within a couple of days. Some people even told me that if I need to euthanize him, not to feel bad since I have done everything I could. These people have been with me since I got him, helping me out and knowing what I have been going through. After this regurge, I really started worrying about having to put this snake down and having a necropsy done on him. I called the vet to ask how much it will cost.
I tried to feed him on the 10th of July and he refused. I made the decision that if he did not eat this past weekend, I would call the vet on the 14th and set the appointment up. However, on Sunday, July 13th, he looked better. He didn't look bloated or anything. I fed him f/t and he hunted that mouse down like he was hungry! I was really excited about him eating. He hasn't regurged but today, he looks swelled and bloated again!
I have tried calling Bill since the 11th and his cellphone no longer works. Bill - if you read this post...PLEASE contact me about this snake.
I don't know what to do with this snake. I don't want to jeopordize my other snakes but I don't want to hastily put him down either. I have 1 Emerald Tree Boa, 1 normal colombian, 1 albino normal, 1 hypo normal, 1 rescued ball python, 1 corn, and the 2 snakes from Bill in quarantine.
This has been my experience and a breeder named Noe Perez from Illinois has spent a great deal of his time helping me with this snake over the phone. He is an awesome person and through him, the vet, and RTB's, I feel I have been able to help this snake as much as I can. Through his recommendations, I talk about this experience on the BOI so others can make a better decision about buying from Bill.
Sorry for the length, but I didn't want to leave anything out.
Star
This is my first BCC snake, so this is also a learning experience for me. Let me try to answer some questions for you. I really liked my impression from Bill and I don't blame him for what is going on with the snake, I just wish I could get a hold of him easier for assistance with the snake. I understand that things happen out of control of a breeders hand. 
