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Bill Cagle Snakes- My experience

I understand Bo. It is hard to get a hold of him, I still have not spoken to him since the time I mentioned in the first post. I have left him messages, maybe he will call me back, I don't know. I would go with a good size fuzzy for his next meal. The hair might be causing problems. One of my friends with a good deal of experience with true red tails, said he feeds hairless mice and rats until the snake reaches 4 feet long. He said the true red tails have trouble with all the fur. My next order is going to include probably rat pinkies to see if this helps any. So feed around August 5 and let me know how this works, but definitely feed something smaller than you have been.

Star
 
I really just wish that Bill would email me back to let me know the history of the snake. I also emailed the herp vet and am waiting on a response from him. She looks very good except for her weight (hasn't held down a meal since 6/29.)

She's been quite active today, moving back and forth between a couple of hides while taking breaks from basking. I've gotten extremely attatched to this snake, so I'm going to do whatever I can to keep her and treat her for whatever may be bothering her.

One last question - should I try to manually give her some water through a syringe? Someone with experience on KS reccomended this if I thought she was dehydrated. Her skin doesn't seem to be very loose, just a little saggy from weight loss.

Thanks again, Bo.
 
My snake looks the same way. He has lost weight also. I don't believe he is dehydrated though because he drinks. I wouldn't try to syringe water right now. When you hold her, gently pinch the skin, if it goes back to normal fast then she is hydrated. If it doesn't go back and it stays pinched, she may be dehydrated and I would take her to the vet. There is more than just water needed for a dehydrated snake, electrolytes are needed also. I don't think she id dehydrated though. I just think we got some snakes that were either wild caught, farmed, or housed in very poor conditions.

Star
 
OK...new update on this North Brazilian of mine....Well, since we were moving and he did have that one regurge a few weeks ago, I decided not to feed him 1 week later like normal, I decided to wait until after the move, let him settle for a couple of days and by then he would be good and ready to eat. So, this is what I did. I fed him last night, it has been just a little over 2 weeks since his last meal. I fed him a FUZZY mouse!!!! Nothing big! Just a really small mouse. This snake is over 6 months old now - if he was really 4 months old when I got him in the beginning of May. He should be able to handle a FUZZY! So, I fed him, immediately afterwards, he has a HUGE bulge closer to his tail than stomach!!! I just don't understand. So, a few minutes ago, I sprayed him down. I could still see that bulge. So I took a picture, however, I wish I would have taken the picture prior to spraying him down since now it is hard to see. What is going on with him? This is too big of a bulge for a Fuzzy!!! Not to mention the bulge insn't even in the right spot.......Here is the picture.

Sabbath-1.jpg


The worst thing is, he has been starting to act "normal". Hiding during the day and climbing at night. I am waiting for the vet to call me back. I think I may put him down. If the food is not even going in the right spot, something is not right with his belly.

I just don't know..... I want him to pull through, but I don't know if he can.... :crying:

Star
 
Sorry to see that Star. Don't really know what to say :shrug01:

I fed mine today, and she took two small fuzzies with gusto. She's been acting a lot more normal lately too - hiding during the day and moving all over the tank at night. You cannot even really see the bulge from two fuzzies in mine.

If everything is ok and she holds these down (fingers crossed), when should I try to feed again? I was thinking at least 10 days, maybe 2 weeks? Since increasing the temps and humidity, she seems to be doing a lot better.

Star, best of luck with yours and thanks again for all the help you've given me. I hope everything works out for you.

Bo
 
Thanks Bo. If she holds these 2 fuzzies down, then I would probably wait 10 days, considering her past experience with regurging. Feed her fuzzies again next time, then after that I would go up to something a little bit larger.

Last night, Sabbath was acting really weird. He started opening is mouth up continously. Then he kept moving around in a circular fashion (not really fast). After that he continued to open his mouth. Then his body shook twice (reminded me of a hiccup). I saw his tail constricting in a S format. I thought maybe he was going to regurge (it would have been a weird regurge). Then I thought maybe he was coming down with another RI. Then I thought maybe he was trying to burp or something. Whatever happened, the bulge is now gone. It must have been gas related but I don't know what he was doing last night. Can boas burp or have hiccups????

Star
 
I woke up this morning to find what I believe to be a defecation - it looks too broken down and "turdish" - sorry for the crude description - but I fed her Friday around 3. Is this too soon for a defecation? Remember, this was the first meal she had held for 24hrs+ since 6/30.....TIA Bo
 
It is hard to say. You wouldn't have taken a picture of it would you have? What color was it? Could you still see the mouse? It could be defecation. How did it smell? It is really hard to tell. I will probably need a more "graphic" representation.

Star
 
There was no definable "mouse" shape to it. It looked exactly like a defecation, but not as brown and maybe a little larger than her first defecation but I could be totally wrong on that. Didn't smell nearly as much as the two regurges either - those were absolutely brutal (I honestly didn't even notice a smell.) I would like to think it's a defecation, because she has been acting great lately and she looks to have a little more body weight to her. There was no lump left in her body either from the feeding.
 
It probably was a defecation then. Congrats on her holding down her food!

I went back to the vet for my snake. It may not be good. I will post all the new information once I know for sure what is going on - hopefully by Friday.

Star
 
On August 4th (I believe or close to), Sabbath went to the bathroom. The fecal was pure diarreah and looked really airy. I took it to the vet. There was no worms or protozoa. Since the vet is concerned with cryptosporidium, she wanted to do a acid fast stain test. That came back positive for crypto; however, they said to find out if it was really crypto, I would have to send it to a crypto lab. So almost $200 later, the test results came back on Saturday August 9, as not viable. So the waiting started. I had to wait for Sabbath to go to the bathroom again. He finally went to the bathroom last Saturday on the 16th. Got the fecal to the vet on Monday morning. It was sent out and it came back today negative. I learned the reason that they send this out to the crypto lab is because mice can have a strand of crypto that snakes cannot get but snakes shed this all the time. However, the acid fast test can not decipher between the two strands. Humans cannot get crypto from snakes and snakes cannot get it from humans. Maybe he will pull through!!!!!!!! I am getting excited!!!!!

Star
 
I spoke to Bill Cagle at the end of August at the reptile show. I spoke to him for a really long time. Honestly, I went there for 2 reasons, to talk to Bill and to get a Boamaster enclosure for my ball. Bill mentioned this post but said he had not read it, others have told him. I did not come here to bash anyone ever. I just came here to share my experience and maybe learn some more things to do to help this snake of mine.

Overall, my North Brazilian Sabbath has been doing well. He is eating every 5 days 2 rat pinkies and is no longer losing weight. If anything recently, he looks as though he has finally gained some weight (still has loose skin though). By time this reptile show came, I didn't believe this snake would still be alive, but he is. Not only is he alive but he is constantly cruising his enclosure and trying to get out (more normal behavior). He is getting more used to me and acutally doesn't get into a huffing and puffing contest with my presence. He acutally wants me to get him out now and doesn't stay all stressed out the entire time. I just wish he would stop rubbing his head. Once in a while he gets in this head rubbing mode and I don't know why.

I told Bill, this post would never have happened IF he had just called me back. That is all I wanted was a phone call with some verbal assistance. He apologized for everything I have gone through with this snake and everything I have gone through not being able to reach him. He said he does feel bad about not calling me back but he is constantly out of town working and the little bit he does get home, he spends it with his family.

I feel I have really bonded with Sabbath over the past few months and I really love him and want him to come through. Bill offered to give me my money back at the show. I didn't really know what to do. I didn't know if I should take it or not. I know most people here would say take it. However, I did not take it because I have hope Sabbath will pull through. Honestly, if the snake lives, then I don't mind paying for him at all. I like the fact that Bill offered to give me my money back for the snake so many months later and with the snake still alive. I told Bill I don't want my money back. This is what I want: My phone calls to be returned. If Sabbath should die, then if he could give me my money back then, that would be great. But, I have hope he won't die. Bill was surprised to hear that this snake was still alive. He figured this snake was going to die. But here he is, active and eating. Bill promised to call me back if needed and promised to either give my money back or give me a new snake IF Sabbath dies.

So months later, Bill is still willing to try to fix this situation and that is good. If I had given him back Sabbath, he probably would have let me switch to another snake but I honestly do love Sabbath and want to keep him.

Star
 
I'm glad Sabbath is doing well, Star. The diarreah is likely from feeding him rat pinkies. There isn't any "roughage" in a pinky to make the poop solid. Pinkies haven't yet developed much bone mass and they have no fur. I think you need to bumb him up fuzzies at least and probably pups.
If he has made it this long, I think he will be fine. Good luck!
 
Btw...regarding Bill telling you that he didn't have time to return your call because he out of town working and wants to spend his home time with his family...I bet if he had a message from someone who wanted to purchase something from him, his family would tolerate him returning that call.
 
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