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Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware

Ophis said:
I give you credit for one thing Bill. You have a more clear picture of the dispicableness of what you did and how you deserve to be delt with than some of your current apologists do.
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Joe,

Who are his current apologists and what have they said to apologize for him. Offering to someday forgive is not the same as apologizing. Bill needs to make amends to to Lee and to the rest of us before anyone will be forgiving him (if ever), much less apologizing for him.
 
Joe,

Tone it down a bit. You've already managed 6 warning points tonight. I think you know how to make your point without the vitriol.
 
The BoidSmith said:
You know what concerns me the most though Bill? That you are still here interacting and posting away. If you had any remorse whatsoever you wouldn’t even show your face, at least for a while. For the rest of you guys and gals, the kids are watching. And I don’t mean just the under-aged. Those same kids that every time a problem shows up on their turf they state the BOI is a joke, that there are groups, cliques, etc. etc., that forgive and forget when one of their members breaks the rules. We’re not talking here about posting fake name or derogatory statements we are talking about breaking the law. “A step in the right direction”? Sure…after how many lies and denials even when confronted with the evidence?! This sets a VERY dangerous precedent. I’ve seen all hell break loose with color enhanced pictures, and people ripped apart over illegal shipping. Here we are in front of stealing, deception, and repeated lies, and a slap in the wrist and it’s over??? Today it seems to be “disappointment day”, and in more ways than one…
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Dan maybe Im wrong but I walked away and was called a coward so to speak, I stay and Im not showing no remorse I cant win, I screwed up I know that and it will be made right but I wont walk away no matter how it looks anymore
 
Jim O said:
Joe,

Who are his current apologists and what have they said to apologize for him. Offering to someday forgive is not the same as apologizing. Bill needs to make amends to to Lee and to the rest of us before anyone will be forgiving him (if ever), much less apologizing for him.
Click to expand...

Like I said Jim. I think that this was a low life scam and does not deserve a second chance. The fact that he is a BOI good guy is a further spit in the face to this community. Anyone who does not deal with this individual extremely harshly is in my opinion an aapologist.
 
I suspect what your seeing is a reluctance to hit a man when he's down. I was fired up and ready to attempt to prove that was the same snake (note to self~ do not draw on your own snakes to prove a point~ makes the snake mad and doesn't prove your point!)

I was all fired up~ when he was denying it.

Then he admitted it.

I'm disappointed and frankly disgusted. But not fired up to make a point. The points been made. He's not argueing that he is not a scumbag. He is admitting it.

I can't hit him when he's already down. It's not me he wronged. Thats for Lee to do if he needs too.
 
PaulSage said:
Isn't shipping snakes via UPS illegal?
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It is not illegal (unless the box did not comply with the Lacey Act) but may be a violation of their TOS. Some shippers are certified by UPS to ship snakes despite their official "policy".
 
Jim O said:
Joe,

Tone it down a bit. You've already managed 6 warning points tonight. I think you know how to make your point without the vitriol.
Click to expand...

Sorry. This type of low down dirty scam calls for unmitigated vitrial.
 
"Isn't shipping snakes via UPS illegal?"

No Paul, it is not illegal. It may be against policy in some areas, but it is not breaking any laws. USPS is of course a different story which a lot of people do not realize (including myself up until not too ago). However USPS does ship lizards, just not snakes.
 
Ophis said:
Like I said Jim. I think that this was a low life scam and does not deserve a second chance. The fact that he is a BOI good guy is a further spit in the face to this community. Anyone who does not deal with this individual extremely harshly is in my opinion an aapologist.
Click to expand...
I agree that it is "a spit in the face to this community" as I said above in somewhat less...colorful language.

What you are saying, in other words unless we practically swear at him and call him names and get warning points then we haven't done enough to satisfy you? Who made you the judge?
 
Ophis said:
Like I said Jim. I think that this was a low life scam and does not deserve a second chance. The fact that he is a BOI good guy is a further spit in the face to this community. Anyone who does not deal with this individual extremely harshly is in my opinion an aapologist.
Click to expand...
Joe I understand your point so what I will do is when Rich gets back or if one of the Mods Can Pull my good guy Certif
 
Ophis said:
Like I said Jim. I think that this was a low life scam and does not deserve a second chance. The fact that he is a BOI good guy is a further spit in the face to this community. Anyone who does not deal with this individual extremely harshly is in my opinion an aapologist.
Click to expand...


What do you propose be done Joe? String him up in Times Square? Draw and quarter him on route 10? Stone him until he dies?

He's propably going to have his BOI badge yanked from, he is most certainly going to lose a lot of business, he's kicking himself harder than anyone else is (I hope), his name as far as many concerned, is mud, hes been branded a liar. How far down does one need to be kicked before you will be happy Joe???
 
I see this as one person admitting what they did to the pooch! Sure took a little help to get him to admit it but he did without 300 post and having to listen to pages and pages of lies followed by this story and that story along with we're all out to get him ETC ETC . Like we have seen so many times here before and will again.


As was noted before he seemed to feel really guilty from the start and it didn't take a whole lot to get him to fess up to what he had done. So yeah I for one see him as a little different than other scammers we've dealt with here before. Hey I've mussed up a time or two in my life so yeah if Bill treads the straight and narrow from now on I can forgive . Randy
 
Jim O said:
It is not illegal (unless the box did not comply with the Lacey Act) but may be a violation of their TOS. Some shippers are certified by UPS to ship snakes despite their official "policy".
Click to expand...
pch101 said:
No Paul, it is not illegal. It may be against policy in some areas, but it is not breaking any laws. USPS is of course a different story which a lot of people do not realize (including myself up until not too ago). However USPS does ship lizards, just not snakes.
Click to expand...
Sorry... my bad. Well, UPS's bad to. They told me there was no way that I could ship live snakes legally through them. ...But that's another thread.
Sorry for being off-topic.
 
Jim O said:
I agree that it is "a spit in the face to this community" as I said above in somewhat less...colorful language.

What you are saying, in other words unless we practically swear at him and call him names and get warning points then we haven't done enough to satisfy you? Who made you the judge?
Click to expand...

Uh.....yea....that would be about right....anyone who had someone ship him a snake....lied to the sender telling him that it was stolen....then put the snake up for auction, doesnt in my opinion deserve to be pissed on if their hair is on fire.
Like I said, if this were one of the usual suspects you would not let him up for AIR! and this is WORSE! If you have a problem with a flat out scammer being sworn at and called names......well....thats your perogative.......thats not the way we are taught to roll where I come from.
 
Rebel Dragons said:
What do you propose be done Joe? String him up in Times Square? Draw and quarter him on route 10? Stone him until he dies?

He's propably going to have his BOI badge yanked from, he is most certainly going to lose a lot of business, he's kicking himself harder than anyone else is (I hope), his name as far as many concerned, is mud, hes been branded a liar. How far down does one need to be kicked before you will be happy Joe???
Click to expand...

Your getting closer.
 
Ophis said:
Sorry. This type of low down dirty scam calls for unmitigated vitrial.
Click to expand...
How would you handle a child molester then? :p

Seriously, if Lee decides to press charges Bill is likely to get no more than a slap on the wrist from the legal system. We're all angry and I am quite certain that Bill feels like a fool. And with good reason! Honestly, how dumb to scam someone out of an animal and post if for sale on a popular internet site less than three months later. I think that may have been why many were doubting Lee's contentions this morning. No one could believe that Bill could be that stupid! And we are all aghast that he continued to lie when his back was to the wall.

But now he has admitted his crime and his punishment will go on long after today has passed. I was taught not to kick a man when he is downand he is crying "uncle". There is nothing more to accomplish. There is nothing more that Bill can do at this point and beating him with that 2 x 4 you have on your shoulder is not going to change anything. If that makes me an "apologist" it's a badge I will wear with honor. I think it more compassion.

Now, would I do business with Bill? Not in a hundred million years! That will be his reward for all this.
 
"I suspect what your seeing is a reluctance to hit a man when he's down. I was fired up and ready to attempt to prove that was the same snake (note to self~ do not draw on your own snakes to prove a point~ makes the snake mad and doesn't prove your point!)

I was all fired up~ when he was denying it.

Then he admitted it.

I'm disappointed and frankly disgusted. But not fired up to make a point. The points been made. He's not argueing that he is not a scumbag. He is admitting it.

I can't hit him when he's already down. It's not me he wronged. Thats for Lee to do if he needs too."

I agree with everything you said except one thing. He did wrong you. And he wronged me and every other good guy on this forum. If you are a certified Fauna Good guy, what does that mean now? Not very much, as the badge has definitely been tainted.

Ophis,

I understand your anger, and trust me I feel it too. But, Mike is not the bad guy here and he is not defending Bill. Try to keep your sights set on the "target". That being said, I truly believe that Bill is sick with guilt (and has been for a while) about what he has done. This was was very apparent when he declined to take the rest of Lee's money ($185.00), and in his posts where he agreed to just pay and be done with it.

Dan, I think Bill should stick around and answer answer the questions of those whose trust he trashed, and I commend him for that. I hate to judge him, but I would not reccomend selling to him or buying from him for that matter. I have no idea of the hard times that fell on him. I have had my own many times (pretty much the story of my life), but his may have been more than he could handle. I really wish he could have swallowed his pride and just asked for some help from a friend of even some of us here before he pulled this stunt.
 
Jim O said:
How would you handle a child molester then? :p

Seriously, if Lee decides to press charges Bill is likely to get no more than a slap on the wrist from the legal system. We're all angry and I am quite certain that Bill feels like a fool. And with good reason! Honestly, how dumb to scam someone out of an animal and post if for sale on a popular internet site less than three months later. I think that may have been why many were doubting Lee's contentions this morning. No one could believe that Bill could be that stupid! And we are all aghast that he continued to lie when his back was to the wall.

But now he has admitted his crime and his punishment will go on long after today has passed. I was taught not to kick a man when he is downand he is crying "uncle". There is nothing more to accomplish. There is nothing more that Bill can do at this point and beating him with that 2 x 4 you have on your shoulder is not going to change anything. If that makes me an "apologist" it's a badge I will wear with honor. I think it more compassion.

Now, would I do business with Bill? Not in a hundred million years! That will be his reward for all this.
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A Child molester!?!?.....well...let me give you a closer analogy.....If a pick pocket tried to pick my wallet of $375.oo I would hit him with sooooooo many lefts.....he would beg for a right. ....If someone broke into my house and I caught him lifting $375.oo off of my coffee table I would shoot him center mass with a few rounds of OO buck.
 
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