Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware

[DThomas]

Joe I understand your point so what I will do is when Rich gets back or if one of the Mods Can Pull my good guy Certif

It's pulled. I also ask that you remove any certificates that may still be displayed on any website.

I can not begin to tell you how disappointed and pissed I am right now. We all face enormous pressure from time to time but how we choose to deal with it defines us a person.

Only Rich and the other Mods know why I shut my business down a few months ago and why I have not been around here very much. My wife and I went through an eight month seperation during '03 - '04 and during that time she ran herself up in considerable debt. Debt that I am liable for. She came back under the pretext of wanting to work on our marriage. Didn't last long. I found out in January she was cheating on me. To add insult to injury, she couldn't make her bills and I was already using my entire paycheck to pay all the household expenses. We ended up having to file bankruptcy. On top of that added expense, I am now paying for a divorce attorney.

Why did I just tell you and all of Fauna this? Because NOT ONCE did I even entertain the thought of stealing from someone else to make things easier on myself. I sucked it up and I played the hand I was dealt. Sometimes life sucks, but that's life for you.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

It's pulled. I also ask that you remove any certificates that may still be displayed on any website.

I can not begin to tell you how disappointed and pissed I am right now. We all face enormous pressure from time to time but how we choose to deal with it defines us a person.

Only Rich and the other Mods know why I shut my business down a few months ago and why I have not been around here very much. My wife and I went through an eight month seperation during '03 - '04 and during that time she ran herself up in considerable debt. Debt that I am liable for. She came back under the pretext of wanting to work on our marriage. Didn't last long. I found out in January she was cheating on me. To add insult to injury, she couldn't make her bills and I was already using my entire paycheck to pay all the household expenses. We ended up having to file bankruptcy. On top of that added expense, I am now paying for a divorce attorney.

Why did I just tell you and all of Fauna this? Because NOT ONCE did I even entertain the thought of stealing from someone else to make things easier on myself. I sucked it up and I played the hand I was dealt. Sometimes life sucks, but that's life for you.

I think you hit a very good point with your "what we do defines us as a person comment". Unfortunately not everyone can see any good, with all the bad. Bill has a very hard long road to travel before he can redefine himself.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Dennis, I am very sorry for situation and I truly, honestly, & painfully KNOW what you are going through and how hard it is to do. Not to go off topic but I hope things get better for you and soon and Im sorry you had to shut down your biz, that is what hurt me the most when I went through that was losing my breeding Rottweilers not the man, just the "business" I had worked so hard for and for so long.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

OK I had time to think and no matter I try to rationalize it there is no excuse for what I did I could of asked for help but was to proud to ask, and the more I thought about the more I realize that maybe I wanted to get caught just to end this deception. I am so sorry for what I have done and those that I disappointed

 

[Wilomn]

Wow, work a long day and all kinds of dripping of the tree.

Bill, ??? If you would care to explain, NOT give excuses, but explain, I'd like to know what lead you to such dire straits.

It seems that something is NOT right with you and your acceptance of this. It's too lacklustre, to mediocere(?), just NOT emotional enough.

IF as you have alluded you did rip off Lee, that really sucks. And, if that is true, I want to know what made you do it.

I'll save my analysis of your character until I know why you, a known good guy, would do such a low down thing.

If nothing else pm me and let me know what's up.

Something ain't right and it's not of the scamming nature.

 

[pch101]

"Bill, ??? If you would care to explain, NOT give excuses, but explain, I'd like to know what lead you to such dire straits.

It seems that something is NOT right with you and your acceptance of this. It's too lacklustre, to mediocere(?), just NOT emotional enough.

IF as you have alluded you did rip off Lee, that really sucks. And, if that is true, I want to know what made you do it.

I'll save my analysis of your character until I know why you, a known good guy, would do such a low down thing.

If nothing else pm me and let me know what's up.

Something ain't right and it's not of the scamming nature."

Wes,

Unlike your everyday run of the mill scammer, I think Bill to his credit actually has a conscience, and I think it has been eating at him for quite a while now. I think this played a major role in his lack of desire to fight to the end as many other scammers do here. I would guess that there is a part of him that is very relieved to get this over and done with. This is what I am gathering from what I am seeing.

 

[Wilomn]

"Bill, ??? If you would care to explain, NOT give excuses, but explain, I'd like to know what lead you to such dire straits.

It seems that something is NOT right with you and your acceptance of this. It's too lacklustre, to mediocere(?), just NOT emotional enough.

IF as you have alluded you did rip off Lee, that really sucks. And, if that is true, I want to know what made you do it.

I'll save my analysis of your character until I know why you, a known good guy, would do such a low down thing.

If nothing else pm me and let me know what's up.

Something ain't right and it's not of the scamming nature."

Wes,

Unlike your everyday run of the mill scammer, I think Bill to his credit actually has a conscience, and I think it has been eating at him for quite a while now. I think this played a major role in his lack of desire to fight to the end as many other scammers do here. I would guess that there is a part of him that is very relieved to get this over and done with. This is what I am gathering from what I am seeing.

I concur. Completely.

Bill, what happened? Why?

If you come clean, so to speak, now, you will perhaps be on the road to recovery of your good name.

I really want to know WHY you did this. Such a small amount and in such a foolish way. You must have known that the chances of being caught were far greater than those of getting away with it. So, what was the reasoning behind this?

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Wow, work a long day and all kinds of dripping of the tree.
Bill, ??? If you would care to explain, NOT give excuses, but explain, I'd like to know what lead you to such dire straits.
It seems that something is NOT right with you and your acceptance of this. It's too lacklustre, to mediocere(?), just NOT emotional enough.
IF as you have alluded you did rip off Lee, that really sucks. And, if that is true, I want to know what made you do it.
I'll save my analysis of your character until I know why you, a known good guy, would do such a low down thing.
If nothing else pm me and let me know what's up.
Something ain't right and it's not of the scamming nature.

Here is the explanation I got in over my head with the buying of boas and thought I could some how make this all right in time but it just started to pile up to the point where I had nothing left and made a wrong turn ..A big wrong turn. as for emotion I dont really know how to type emotion other then those funny little icons I screwed up and you cant see the tears that stream or the void I feel .Its really hard to go from being on Mount High to now being with the low lifes of this hobby, Wes you and everyone else cant think any less of me then I think of myself there are no excuses here just down right stupidity

 

[Wilomn]

Here is the explanation I got in over my head with the buying of boas and thought I could some how make this all right in time but it just started to pile up to the point where I had nothing left and made a wrong turn ..A big wrong turn. as for emotion I dont really know how to type emotion other then those funny little icons I screwed up and you cant see the tears that stream or the void I feel .Its really hard to go from being on Mount High to now being with the low lifes of this hobby, Wes you and everyone else cant think any less of me then I think of myself there are no excuses here just down right stupidity

IF, and it's a big IF, such is truly the case then THIS is where your past comes to your defense.

Have ya learned from this?

IS it something you're likely to EVER do again?

Do ya LIKE the way not only YOU feel but how you feel WE must be feeling about you?

If you don't then suck it up, accept your whacks, and move on with your chin up.

You're NOT a bad guy. You simply made a stupid mistake.

NOW you have to make up for it.

IF you're not yet telling the truth, best you do. If you are then all will eventually be well.

How many times have we seen it posted "it's not how many bad deals you have, it's how you deal with those bad deals that makes you good or bad?"

Get your **** together and don't mess up anymore.

There aren't enough good guys to just out one forever the first time he messes up. I'd say you're out of the club for now but I would also say that it's NOT forever.

DUMBASS.

Just fix it and don't screw up anymore. K?

 

[The BoidSmith]

OK I had time to think and no matter I try to rationalize it there is no excuse for what I did I could of asked for help but was to proud to ask, and the more I thought about the more I realize that maybe I wanted to get caught just to end this deception. I am so sorry for what I have done and those that I disappointed

This is exactly what I was telling you a few posts ago. Instead of burying your head in the sand because of this shameful experience you start turning philosophical and mystic.


You wanted to get caught? Below is a recollection of your statements in this thread. Does that seem to you like a person that wanted to get caught or that is desperately trying to cover his tracks? Only when the pictures of both snakes showing the similarities were displayed, only when it was so obvious that broke everyone's eyes, did you decide to confess. Before you were willing to buy your way out ($200 to Lee to end the thread) or going away leaving everyone with the doubt.

Bill, this is nothing personal against you, but your action. I enjoyed your posts and how you interacted with the people here. But there are those that still care about this site and it's integrity. This is just my opinion but you can't expect this site to be respected by our peers when one of our friends (and yes you were considered as such) and a person with one of the highest reputations in the site cannot hold his head up high. This is your decision, make it count.

Ok Lee seeing as you have pictures of the boa in question please post pictures I sent you of the box as I no longer have them (dumb on my part I reckon)(last E-mail to Lee) Lee I picked this 1 and 3 other boas from a guy who was being shipped off to Iraq back in May when I was down in Texas, you say you compared the pictures and they are identical.Not that I doubt you which I dont. What I do find odd is I bought the Dh in April and if memory serves The one that got lost was a 2' and the one.. I have up is just shy of 18" send me the pictures tou compared it to please Like i said I just find this really odd.Thank you Billy

Lee, upon looking at the 2 pictures I will say they do look alike except for the tail area ( between the 2 R's) Mine has a Arrow patch where yours doesn't so yes I do agree they seem similar but not the same.

Lee I would love to set your mind at ease Trust me but I sold my digi and really have no way to prove this other then my word ......but what I do find odd is that the tail on yours is brown to the tip while mine has a black tip

My name is all I have and to have it thrown up here like this I think Its useless to make this thread go on and on and on so to put an end to all of this I will pay Lee the 200 on 7/21/05 at 9am i will deposit it in my account by 11 am it will be in Paypay to keep my good name in tact. If this looks to be anything other then what is it is then take it as you will My Name is all I have and the longer this goes on the less my name will be worth Thank you and have a good sunny day

"You come into this world and given a name..your parents teach you right from wrong..you will go through life with this name it is up to you what kind of name you will take to your grave" So in the reality of it all it comes down to What name do you want to carry....If anyone sees this as I'm being walked on by my gesture then so be it ,I see it as Its my name and right or wrong I will take it to my grave.

Neil I do respect what you are saying and what others may be thinking.so I'm going to lay this out the best I can...This will never happen again and you can Quote me on this. I have bought, traded all the snakes that I needed now I'm selling the ones that will not suit my purpose out of 138 boas I have 13, 4 of which I'm keeping 9 which will be sold and I really don't see me buying anymore unless it is in person.and they of superior quality I'm really not in this Herp Community as a business man..I'm an over zealous Hobbyist with a dream that I will find a new Morph(everyones dream) just because this thread was started does not mean I have any less Respect for Lee I have to see the other side of this coin What if it was me or WW-JD I hope this sorta clears this up.

Ok first off Ben thank you for your post, and I see how it does look like the same snake and I do understand the finger print thing But how does a snake go from 2' to barly 18" thats not my point though. my point is that even tho they have similar marking are you saying that the possibility that they are 2 different snakes is impossible? James it came packed really well except for the gapping hole and the smashed containter in side before this whole thing started as it stated in Lees opening line the snake was 375 and he sent the 200 back and I told him that I would split half the loss, Now if I was a scammer would I not just took it all back and hid the snake ???? I dont really know the mind of a scammer Because I dont have one

To be honest I don't really know what else to say on this whole thing, I presented all I have in the way of proof and by me offering to send the money to Lee makes me look guilty then so be it.

James and everyone else I cant explain why they look alike. I know how this all went down and I'm sticking by it ...James I didn't go to Texas to buy snakes. I went to visit my daughter and was approached about buying them.. When I bought the DH from Lee all I had was the picture that was posted here and when I bought this male I didn't really give it a second thought. about my rep points and my good Certif....Take them away I cant explain any of this and I really don't have the energy to try...So I'm leaving You all with this thought You have to believe what is in your heart and In mine I feel like because of lack of evidence on my part, I'm sunk to the bottom of the scum pile and If I'm ostracized from this community because of this Well I guess I just say good bye now...And Like i said earlier Lee will get his money, and with that I will say good bye..

 

[Bill_Leverton]

IF, and it's a big IF, such is truly the case then THIS is where your past comes to your defense.

Have ya learned from this? Yes I have

IS it something you're likely to EVER do again? Not achance in hell but only road back will tell

Do ya LIKE the way not only YOU feel but how you feel WE must be feeling about you? No i dont

 

[mmeade]

One thing bugs me...

First of all, I'm nobody here. Secondly, those of you who jumped the orginal poster (remember him) saying he owed Bill an apology need to put your hat in your hands and step up to the apology plate.

But the thing that bugs me most is the sentiment in Bill's signature. The poor get welfare (such as it is anymore, but hey, Rush rules, no?)...the rich get building permits...which often destroy herp habitat. Which is easier, rich or poor?

It comes as no surprise to me that someone who is self-righteous as to include that little bit of hate speech (in the name of God, no doubt) turns out to be a lawless hypocrite. It is ever thus.

Flame away, taxpayers....

 

[Bill_Leverton]

This is exactly what I was telling you a few posts ago. Instead of burying your head in the sand because of this shameful experience you start turning philosophical and mystic.


You wanted to get caught? Below is a recollection of your statements in this thread. Does that seem to you like a person that wanted to get caught or that is desperately trying to cover his tracks? Only when the pictures of both snakes showing the similarities were displayed, only when it was so obvious that broke everyone's eyes, did you decide to confess. Before you were willing to buy your way out ($200 to Lee to end the thread) or going away leaving everyone with the doubt.

Bill, this is nothing personal against you, but your action. I enjoyed your posts and how you interacted with the people here. But there are those that still care about this site and it's integrity. This is just my opinion but you can't expect this site to be respected by our peers when one of our friends (and yes you were considered as such) and a person with one of the highest reputations in the site cannot hold his head up high. This is your decision, make it count.

Dan I tried to get away with but I just couldnt go through with it, I dont lie to people buy nature I just got so caught up in hiding what I did that it just kept rolling down hill and I couldnt stop it

 

[Ophis]

IF, and it's a big IF, such is truly the case then THIS is where your past comes to your defense.

Have ya learned from this?

IS it something you're likely to EVER do again?

Do ya LIKE the way not only YOU feel but how you feel WE must be feeling about you?

If you don't then suck it up, accept your whacks, and move on with your chin up.

You're NOT a bad guy. You simply made a stupid mistake.

NOW you have to make up for it.

IF you're not yet telling the truth, best you do. If you are then all will eventually be well.

How many times have we seen it posted "it's not how many bad deals you have, it's how you deal with those bad deals that makes you good or bad?"

Get your **** together and don't mess up anymore.

There aren't enough good guys to just out one forever the first time he messes up. I'd say you're out of the club for now but I would also say that it's NOT forever.

DUMBASS.

Just fix it and don't screw up anymore. K?

You gotta be KIDDING me!

 

[DThomas]

First of all, I must apologize for what I am about to ask everyone to do.

I jumped the gun when I deleted Bill's BOI Good Guy Certification. That was not my place to do and is not in the spirit of how the program is suppossed to work. Myself and the other MODs are not going to act like judges when it comes to issues like this. This will be left up to all of you, the Fauna Members.

What this means is you need to go to his certification poll and vote. (I have put it back up.) If and when it falls into the negative, then his certification can be pulled. Those that have voted in the past can delete that vote and vote again. This is how the program was designed to work. You, the Fauna Members, decide who is a good guy or not.

Again, I am truely sorry for my mistake and any confusion this may cause. This is entirely my fault and I will accept all the heat for the blunder.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Dennis I dont think that a vote is in order I wanted removed if that is ok??

 

[gila7150]

So you stole a boa because you had put yourself into debt from buying too many boas?
Someone check this man into boa rehab. Did it ever occur to you to sell some of your boas to get yourself out of debt?

You're getting off pretty easy considering that you really should be arrested for this. With all the "good guy", "bad guy" stuff we tend to forget that this was really no different than the burglar who breaks into your home and steals your property. I wonder if people who steal because of financial reasons ever consider the financial position of their victims.

I'm coming to the conclusion that if Neil comes to your defense it's like the kiss of death....He seems to have a soft spot for thiefs.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Dennis I dont think that a vote is in order I wanted removed if that is ok??

hit to fast As it was stated by Mr Black My name being there is a a slap or spit in the face which ever word he used

 

[The BoidSmith]

Dennis,

In MHO a vote in there will not represent my opinion about Bill. If I was going to vote by what I feel right now it would be bad guy but I consider it to be unfair as I have never dealt with him before. There should be one other poll where we can express more than one opinion.

Thanks.

 

[DThomas]

It is going to stay the way it is currently set up. If there are suggestions/comments on how it could be changed/run better since this is the first instance that we have run into this type of situation, please start a new thread in the Feedback Forum and we can discuss it there. Thanks.