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Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware

lucille said:
Bill said he was leaving the industry. Now he is back in business.
Lucille, that's called changing one's mind. That is not the same as stealing or lying about stealing. If it was his intention at the time and now that intention has changed, that is Bill's right. Unlike one Dennis Dynes, who promised not to post on Fauna ever again if something was done that he requested. What he requested was done and he chose to come back anyway. That's lying, or breach, because he made a "deal", a contract, a quid pro quo, and failed to keep his end of it. Bill made a statement of intention but no contract. Very different. As a lawyer to be you can certainly understand this difference.
 
Jim,

This is Bill's last e-mail to me:


Dan I said Im not posting anymore on that thread ..Do you really think that
I would accept any apologies after all of this I paid Lee his money plus
what he borrowed as far as Im concerned I'm done with this deal and I'll
continue reading what people have to say and take it as I see it, Just a
bunch of chest thumping and trying to be the alpha male I have nothing left
to prove I'll let people think what they want from now on and I really dont
feel my life needs to be put under a micro scope Its done the partys
involved have concluded Business Billy

He stated he was not going to accept apologies!!! And that he would let people think what they want? Please! You probably still remember when Sal was out of business, and then he returned under a different name. Did we say he just changed his mind at that point in time? I'm not comparing here Sal's "business" history with Bill's affair, just the action of "changing one's mind".


I know double standards are common and I am NOT saying to give bill anything extra by way of trust or benifit of the doubt. However, presupposing that he is guilty of crimes as yet uncommitted is a bit much.

Wes,

The benefit of the doubt was given repeatedly during the course of several weeks:

1. while waiting for the decision of the judge (you know, the one that was going to rule out on the UPS theft)

2. When he stated that those that said it was the same snake in the picture were all wrong, that there were two snakes involved

3. while waiting for him to post all the documents that would clear the case.

4. while we were waiting the money and “both boas” to be sent back to Lee for him to clear everything up.

5. while waiting for the money plus only the boa in question was supposed to be sent.

6. when we heard of his decision of getting off the business

So yes, I agree it was just one instance but it was so full of lies and deception that it transparently showed the character of the person. A “yes, I did it” alone would have made a world of difference in the outcome.

So what benefit of the doubt are we supposed to give this person now?

Let's see some of that spunk that keeps getting splattered on THIS thread spread around to those who ALSO deserve it or, perhaps, if that is not possible, silence should be attempted for a while.

Yes, we agree there are other people that should be called for what they did. They have been and will continue to be, as necessary. But we should try to avoid doing it because of a clash of personalities but because of facts that arise. In this case a fact came to light. The person was going to be out of business and he is back again.

In Bill’s case, do I have a beef against him? Not at all. It’s just that I don’t condone the action. This person said he was getting out of snakes all along (probably to gain sympathy at the time) but now he has found that wants to start new and exciting projects! Do we give him the benefit of the doubt, again?

Some people have been in jail for a long time because they broke the law (smuggling). The last time I read about it, stealing was also breaking the law, and the action is punishable with jail. The only difference is that in this case the person got away with it because it was never reported. For not having pressed charges Lee probably deserves a big thank you rather than an apology.

Regards
 
As I stated, I have NOT read about ONE THOUSAND posts on this thread and I have no intention of doing so.

I see no reason to cut bill any slack and am not doing so here.

It's just rather unfathomable to me that there is such vehemence to bill, deserved in large part, that is not there for others.

We've, well some of YOU have, given some pretty big scumbags in this industry more than one chance. They lied. They cheated. They stole. They were NO better than bill.

I just don't like any of this. I won't be doing business with bill and I don't feel sorry for him.

It's just that if we're going to have a fish fry, don't you think ALL the fish should be cooked?
 
Laura Cox said:
One bad deal and no one will let this nightmare rest.

Laura with respect, While I can understand your points. I do believe the effort to continue to label an attempted theft as just one "bad deal" does a disservice to Lee and others that have been scammed.


Wilomn said:
bill MIGHT continue lying and thieving.
bill MIGHT not continue lying and thieving.
WHO here KNOWS which it will be?
I THINK bill MIGHT. I'm pretty sure NO ONE else conclusively knows either way..

All doubt was erased when Bill was caught shill bidding on another site. His justification for it here proved that his character is sufficiently lacking that he should be considered a habitual liar and thief.

In my opinion that is enough to send the “one bad deal theory” down the drain.
 
I bow to the informed masses as I do not and have no desire to delve into the depths of this mess.

bill, ya blew it.

Tough it out and maybe things won't be like this someday. I guess it depends on how tough you are and how badly you want this put behind you.
 
It's just that if we're going to have a fish fry, don't you think ALL the fish should be cooked?

The oil is boiling in the pan, but is not Friday for a fish fry yet! ;)

Regards.
 
Wes, you said:
Let's also put some perspective on this. While it was BIG and STUPID bill's mistake is SINGULAR so far as I know[/b]

In the beginning I wanted to believe that Bill made a stupid mistake that his underlying character, while essentially flawed in that he was capable of making that mistake, was redeemable. In fact I still believe that he, like most humans on the planet, is not beyond redemption...

But what tipped the balance was, to me, his SECOND crime, fully admitted by him, which was totally separate from the Boa he stole from Lee.

He had auctions going and had a shill bidder bidding the auctions up. He was in effect STEALING from other people. AND he thought it was NO BIG DEAL ... it was BUSINESS as USUAL... this showed that his character has a deeper less likely to change flaw, and as such, once I saw that, I realized that he was the scumbag that his actions proved out. I have no doubt he believes himself purer than the driven snow on most accounts, but it's easy to consider yourself pure and without fault, when your morals are "lower than a snakes belly" (I heard that quote once and liked it).

Whether or not he said he would get out of the reptile biz or not, whether or not he is back, the big thing to me is that he admitted to TWO CRIMES, and one has been swept under the rug.

Anyway, I thoiught I would share my feelings on this matter.
 
Allow me to reiterate an early post of mine in this thread.....

For me, this is more about character than the crime itself. What Bill has shown me through all of this is his character. Everything exposed in this thread, stealing, lying, shill bidding, etc..... these are character flaws, not bad deals. I believe they are a part of who Bill is.... a relatively smart guy who has no problem lying to people and screwing them over when it suits his purpose. Like I said, a character issue, not a business one.
 
I was in a lot of trouble 2 years ago...........I was going to walk away from this industry, sell the animals that I truly loved, and then something amazing happened...........a litter of the most amazing boas that my top girl delivered, she had 6 ghost boas that I nor my partner expected. As we were cleaning the babies, he looked up at me with tears in his eyes and said "if you walk away from all of this, they win" The "they" that he was referring to was federal fish and wildlife!!

I'm no Tom Crutchfield or Don Hamper but I have made my own mistakes and paid a very high price for them. And the thing that saved me from my own defeated attitude, was my 28 year old partner Toby. That one sentence that he spoke to me that night made all the difference in my life. So I passed that same story on to Billy, after many arguments on to handle this situation, maybe Toby's words were heard by another. I was only sharing a personal experience of my own, and if it helps another find a new way to look at their lives that's awesome!!

None of us know with any certainty how this will all play out for Billy, but time and this thread will be his teacher. We can only sit back and watch to see what happens next. My hope is that he will learn from my experience, change, and be able to pass it along when someone else needs it more than he, as I did for him.
 
Jim O said:
Lucille, that's called changing one's mind. That is not the same as stealing or lying about stealing. If it was his intention at the time and now that intention has changed, that is Bill's right. Unlike one Dennis Dynes, who promised not to post on Fauna ever again if something was done that he requested. What he requested was done and he chose to come back anyway. That's lying, or breach, because he made a "deal", a contract, a quid pro quo, and failed to keep his end of it. Bill made a statement of intention but no contract. Very different. As a lawyer to be you can certainly understand this difference.

I well understand that he wanted to make a comeback to the reptile biz, and agree that he has the right to change his intentions, as we have a right to our opinions about those intentions. Those who said time will tell are wise indeed:

Here, copy from the ad he posted in the classifieds today:


Ok, thought these were sold but “NO MONEY” showed up, so I am Listing them again, I am willing to cut a great deal on 2 or more of these. I just don’t have the patience for this boa thing any longer, so my loss is your gain.
.
 
Bill, I have strong feelings about this whole matter and feel I have the right to voice them. First you were leaving the business, then you were coming back, now you were trying to make sales by saying 'the whole boa thing is too much' and that is new. I would appreciate if you would not try to censor me, this is what you wrote to me this morning:







Warning Level: 31 I know

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lucille I know that most likely I won't get a responce from you, But thats cool as long as I know I got this out to you.What in pit of Hades is your point for bringing the post on me me back up ? Is it because you are "Appalled" that I decided to stay or go? or is it because that since this whole thing started Ive become more popular ? What ever it is you need to get over it I had one real crappy "Mistake" and I'm paying for it, But like everything else in life you live, you learn, you move on, So for what its worth move on nothing to see here Have a good day Billy
__________________
Bill Leverton
 
"Mistake"........"Popular".......LOL


Biker Bill........why don't you donate your Boas to a good cause and move on. You are a liar and a cheat, plain and simple. You do not belong in this hobby.

Beat it already.
 
DAND said:
Bill,

Why don't you make up your mind and stick to it. Again, it's not anyone esle's doing but your own. You're the one who is keeping this book going by adding a new chapter with every new lie or change in you choice of direction.


Well David, maybe he's in touch with his feminine side, and like a woman "has the prerogative to change her mind" !!

Or maybe, like a bad marriage, can't walk away from the habit of being miserable.

I've said this before, if the love, passion, and commitment for our animals is there, than the choice is obvious.........we choose to stay. My life sux on a good day right now, but where ever this divorce I'm going thru takes me, I will stay in this industry and do what I love, raising and breeding my boa's.
 
Laura Cox said:
My life sux on a good day right now, but where ever this divorce I'm going thru takes me, I will stay in this industry and do what I love, raising and breeding my boa's.

I understand the need to play "build me up butter cup", but in this instance it just seems ridiculous. With all due respect to your situation Laura...what in the world does it have to do with Bill's situation? It doesn't make sense to me how you can relate your situation to Bills. You're a divorcee or going through a divorce and Bill is a lying thief. Where is the connection? Is there a connection? I just don't see it. Is it just about suffering together instead of alone regardless of the circumstances that bring you each to suffering? What? Will we be throwing mice...errrr....rice at you and Bill some time soon?

I understand your loyalty to Bill the way I understand why a young woman would waste her life falling in love and devoting herself to an inmate she's never met or could even spend her life with. ITS A WASTE OF TIME.

Meanwhile a fruit fly landed in my coffee cup so I gotta go before I get super annoyed.
 
People change their mind all the time and IMHO Bill can do as he pleases as long as he sells his own boas. One thing that puzzled me about the latest ad though is the fact that a 2003 boa was sold as “possibly” gravid. Was that a typo, an accident, a lack of cage space or had you purposely thrown a male to a 2-year old female boa?

Regards.
 
Ok I'm a liar and a theif as I said too many times in this thread "I'm Done. So I lied sue me :) But this is getting to be more trouble then it's worth. First off Chuck Its called friendship Laura and I are friends and if I chose to pursue it further, what business is it of yours or anyone one else for that matter ? An Inmate that makes me laugh :rofl: even convicts need friends, Dan to answer the question about the female yes I did throw her in with a male that I sold and yes they locked up, so thats why I said she is possible and last but not least Lucille, I see you are of such high moral standards. didn't (if memory serves me) you posting P.Ms cause alot of static here once before you need to look up Private. But then again you are you :) Oh one more thing this post is the longest one on the BOI and you know what the longer it gets, the less I care about your opinions, Ive never done business with anyone of you who are typing their little fingers to the nubs by every move I make, I did everything humanly possible to make amends, but I will not run and hide because you people are bored and want keep throwing gasoline on a dead fire,So have it once more have a good day
 
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