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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Blazing Blizzards for $250 - Morph Pricing drops

Actually Kelli, leos were some of the first lizards I have ever bred..... That is going back a long time..... I got out of leos a long time ago around the time I got into my bitis projects and got back into them about 3 years ago..... I have been keeping and breeding reptiles for 20+ years.....

Also, I did not say all breeders are greedy.... You can only speak for you when you say my comments are wrong.... I do not see any other reason why someone would get mad about another breeder selling BBs for a fraction of what they figured they would be worth...... To me it looks like they are mad because their BBs will not have that 1500 dollar price tag..... Like I said, it the way the buisiness works......

Kelli, I know you care deaply for your animals and I do not class you in the greedy breeder catagory..... Actually the majority of breeders here on this site are great people.....

What I want to know is how does it make someone greedy if they were to go out and buy a BB for 250 bucks???? That is just a rediculous statement....
 
Also Kelli, my posts are hardly hate filled..... I am just being realistic and say some things that most people will not say but are thinking the very same thing..... Why would I be mad or filled with hate???? I am not a big leo breeder but I never wanted to be one..... I have a job that pays my bills and pays for all of my expensive hobbies..... My reptiles are my love and my hobby...... All I want to work with as far as leos go are the tangs..... I can easily go out and buy these other morphs but I am not interested.... So what is there for me to be mad about???? Besides, my gaboon projects take up alot of my time and they are my primary interest.....
 
blazings

The only thing I care to add on this topic is, you get what you pay for. There is a HUGE difference in buying from a reputable breeder and buying from a large pet store like PP. Trust me on this one...
 
Marcia, I agree with you 100%..... Unfortunatly alot of people are looking for the better deal even if it means getting an animal of lesser quality..... I personal would rather go to a reputable breeder...... I just think that if someone is so sure of their good quality animals than they should not care if someone is selling the same type of animal that is supposedly lesser quality.... But it is obvious that some breeders are very pissed about the BBs.... I have seen the pics of PPs BBs and they seem to be in good health..... Why is everyone assuming they are not quality BBs????
 
Actually Kelli, leos were some of the first lizards I have ever bred..... That is going back a long time..... I got out of leos a long time ago around the time I got into my bitis projects and got back into them about 3 years ago..... I have been keeping and breeding reptiles for 20+ years.....
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Wow, since you were 9 years old huh! That's awesome. Sorry I was mistaken, I only saw your name pop up on the kingsnake forum about 1-2 years ago, and going by your posts then it seemed as if you were a leo newbie.

Also, I did not say all breeders are greedy
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No, but you did say this:
"Everyone getting into the blazing blizzard project expected to make $1500 to $2000 an animal...... Now they cant...... Too bad"

kinda seemed like the same thing but I probably interpreted it incorrectly.

What I want to know is how does it make someone greedy if they were to go out and buy a BB for 250 bucks???? That is just a rediculous statement....
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I totally agree with you there Gregg.

Also Kelli, my posts are hardly hate filled..... I am just being realistic and say some things that most people will not say but are thinking the very same thing..... Why would I be mad or filled with hate???? I am not a big leo breeder but I never wanted to be one..... I have a job that pays my bills and pays for all of my expensive hobbies..... My reptiles are my love and my hobby...... All I want to work with as far as leos go are the tangs..... I can easily go out and buy these other morphs but I am not interested.... So what is there for me to be mad about???? Besides, my gaboon projects take up alot of my time and they are my primary interest.....
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I dunno, some of your posts seem angry to me, like I said before perhaps I misinterpreted them. Maybe it's just your personality or something, or maybe I am completely wrong. If so, you have my apology.

Oh BTW, you never gave me the information on the preserved leo collection! :) :) :)

No hard feelings Gregg, I say what I want to say also, I am not afraid to post my opinion. So we are alike in that respect!
 
I have seen the pics of PPs BBs and they seem to be in good health..... Why is everyone assuming they are not quality BBs????
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Maybe some people have had less than good luck with geckos purchased from them. Basically, they were sold sick leos, how's that for quality?
 
I actually got my first gartersnakes when I was around 8..... They bred for me a couple of months after I got them..... Kept a variety of species of snakes and lizards after that...... I would say I got my first leos when I was around 16 or so..... I probably bred those leos at the age of 17..... Shortly after that I got into venomous and varanids and thats where I have been ever since..... I got back into leos about 3 years ago..... My time on the forums is but a fraction of my years of herp experiance..... I am sure you have seen my hot collection..... That is not the type of collection a newbe keeps....LOL

Anyway I have heard both good and bad about PP...... I have never delt with them personaly so I can say either way.....
 
My time on the forums is but a fraction of my years of herp experiance..... I am sure you have seen my hot collection..... That is not the type of collection a newbe keeps....LOL
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Well then please accept my apology for insinuating you were new to geckos. I have seen your hot collection, and I figured you had experience with venomous, but thought you were new to geckos. My bad! Sometimes I can be a :dunce:
 
KelliH said:
It's definitely more of a status thing than a money thing, for me at least.
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I agree with you Kelli that it is a status thing and partly the reason most people buy high end items (I too am guilty) however, isn't that status used to market them in the long run? Hmm... Tremper Albinos... why is his name there? He had the 1st albinos out and yet we still called them Tremper Albinos! It is about the status as much as it is a marketing ploy!
 
Sorry for a dumb question, but do leopard geckos with the blazing red devil eyes, like in Prehistoric Pet's ads in Reptiles Magazine, really exist? You know, colored like this smiley: :eatsmiley
 
I don't think anyone with half a brain trying to produce blazings thought they would make a killing. Plain old patties started at $3000, just a few years ago trempers were $1000+. And, if you want a good parallel, look at PA's. Once PP produced their first bazing, the writing was on the wall. I've got my own blazing double hets, who I'm planning on breeding next season.

I like the challenge of it. Plus, I want a white blizzard! I tried to pick out white blizzards, but couldn't find any, so I settled on gray, and now I'm producing midnights, Murphy's law I guess :shrug01:

-Alice
 
Alice,
That is what most of the breeders thought when they got into BB projects...... It was about the money..... That is why alot of them are pissed off...... If they were doing it just for the "challenge" they would not be mad in the slightest bit..... It is pretty simple..... I say that anyone who is mad at PP is also jealous because they had produced enough to corner the market and set the price before anyone else can get a shoe in...... The #1 reason why they are mad is because they dropped a bunch of cash on a BB project thinking they were going to make a crap load of money but instead will be making much less on them because someone got there first and set the market...... Do I agree with what PP did???? To tell you the truth, I do not care...... But hey, they are not realy doing anything wrong...... The only leos I would be willing to drop alot of cash on are SHTCTB because that is what I am interested in...... It is harder to get the desired look when you line breed.... Anyone can breed out simple recessive genetics...... That is why recessive and co/dom morphs loose value so fast...... Like I said, its a gamble.... So dont get mad if someone pulls a royal flush over your pair of aces.....
 
Also Alice,
Notice how you are not mad about what PP did with the BBs???? That is the difference between you and a greedy breeder...... Ofcorse when I say "greedy breeder" I am excluding most of the breeders that support this forum.....
 
Gregg M said:
Also, I did not say all breeders are greedy.... You can only speak for you when you say my comments are wrong.... I do not see any other reason why someone would get mad about another breeder selling BBs for a fraction of what they figured they would be worth...... To me it looks like they are mad because their BBs will not have that 1500 dollar price tag..... Like I said, it the way the buisiness works......
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I would be mad if I worked with tremper blazing blizzards and had put the same amount of devotion into it that I put into the bell blazing blizzards, but not because of the price.


To me the price gave me some hope that in the beginning the blazing blizzard would be a more boutique animal, because of its high price and the small amount of breeders working with them there would be time to get a strong bloodline going before the market became flooded.

Imagine putting several years into producing double hets from multiple bloodlines, only breeding outcrossed, unrelated specimens. Imagine finally achieving against what seemed to be unachievable odds and having the satisfaction of knowing you produced not only one of the rarest morphs in your hobby but also had your dedication pay off with the most diverse bloodline imagineable.

Now imagine being ready to come to market with a living symbol of your love and dedication of this hobby, and have one petstore flood the market with cheap animals.
 
I have a really funny story about the first leopard gecko mutation, the leucistics/patternless:

I brought a copy of Reptiles Magazine with the first big color ad for the leucistics to Southeast Reptile Exchange. One of the employees thought that those leopards were fantastic (like we all did) and called the phone number in the ad.

There was no price in the ad. So, the employee asked the guy who answered the phone "How much?" The guy goes "$3,500.00 for males, and $2,000.00 for females, babies."

So, the employee goes "You asshole."

So, the guy who answered the phone went ballistic and calls the potential buyer all kinds of great names (I would have to post this in the HELL forum to list them and they would still be censored) and hangs up.

One of my all-time great memories of the reptile business! :rofl:
 
Steven,
You would still have that same feeling of achievment no matter what..... It would be like me getting mad at someone for producing tangs that are like mine for a low price..... I would not give a rats behind..... Why??? Because I know that I produced great looking and healthy animals..... Who cares what the other guy is doing...... No matter what other people are producing or selling the product for, you should still feel the same level of achievment with what you produce..... If the price tag that someone else puts on an animal is enough to bum you out and get you pissed off, than you are most likely involved in that project because of the money you thought you might make not because of the achievment aspect..... If you get mad over price drops, you are mad because your income just dropped with it.....

Steven, I know you are not one of these greedy people so my comments are not directed at you in any way.....
 
I think that the prospect of making a little money appeals to us all, and I can't fault anyone for being a little irked at PP. I think that if anyone feels really mad / cheated, however, they've also got to be really blind. This is nothing new in the leo market. You're 100% right Gregg when you say it is the line bred traits that hold their value.

I also can't fault the people that wait until the market drops and take full advantage. My double hets are het for bell blazing, so I wouldn't mind shelling out a little money for a tremper blazing, but I'll probably wait until next year. By then, I should be able to get a sexed pair for $250 :dgrin:

-Alice
 
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