Blocked glottis on snake -any advice urgently welcome

[Helenthereef]

I do think it's good to have a coherent set of hints and tips on how to tube feed (and give injections) - maybe we should start a dedicated thread, seeing as how a lot of this so-useful information is kind of getting buried in all my woes...

I do make sure I get all the air out of the tube, I dip the snake end of the tube in edible cooking oil, and last time I tried warming the tube itself in hot water just before use to make it a bit softer and more flexible.

My partner and myself tag team the actual feed - we lay a towel across my lap, I feed and he holds Samael's body level and tries to prevent acute coiling (without over stretching). After feeding we hold his head and upper third of body upwards to let gravity (and a bit of gentle belly massage) do its work to try and prevent it all coming back down his nose..... Mostly it works after his original objections, but last time but one he fought us hard and did spit up half the egg.

And yet, his system is working - he defecated last night and gave us a properly sized, (if soft and smelly - eggy ) stool. I've seen him drinking. When we take him out his tongue is flicking and he does move around slowly. But when I offer him solid food he recoils, and if left in the tank, ignores it.

I will order some Flukers Liquid Calcium reptile supplement, but given that it took over 2 months for the Nutri-bac to get to us, I'll wait until my partner can pick it up the USA in July. For the meantime I've bought some other children's liquid multivitamins that include calcium, and I'll start adding those to his egg instead of the baby vits (which have no calcium, but do have iron, which these new ones lack... maybe I'll need to alternate).

I have to be away again soon for a couple of weeks, so I'm not trying anything new immediately, but when I get back I think I'll try blending up the tinned cat food again - he tolerated that once before, and that also includes calcium.

My vet did offer me a urethral catheter, but it was so thin I'm not sure even egg would have gone through it. Maybe human catheters are wider? I shall investigate that and maybe check the hospital.

Our night time temperatures are dropping now as we head into southern hemisphere winter. Currently nighttime sitting 23 - 24oC (73 - 74oF), daytime 28oC (82oF). He does feel cold to the touch, and I certainly don't want him to start brumating now, so I've added a hot spot to his tank. I made these myself when we had neonates - they are kind of McGyver'd but effective and don't get hot enough to burn. I took electrical heaters that we use to vapourise mosquito repellent tablets at night, and used bathroom sealant to seal them into small ceramic souffle ramekins. I put one into his tub and he was curled up onto it within 15 minutes, so maybe it will help a bit. I'll get a photo of him on it for the next post.

It's eggy time again tonight, will be adding calcium vits, fingers crossed....

Here are my McGyvery hot rock ingredients.....

 

[Helenthereef]

Here is the heat rock/ souffle dish in action:

Mosquito heat pad fixed into ramekin with bathroom sealant.

Samael cuddling the hot "rock"

 

[hotlips]

You're pretty creative! Hey, maybe the cooler seasonal temperatures are part of the problem with his appetite? Snakes sense not only temperatures but shorter daylight hours too...they instinctively don't like to get caught being unable to digest. It sure looks like he wants and NEEDS that heater...I never thought to ask what your temperatures are lately, but when snakes are sick, they need to be warmer, & their
immune systems shut down when they brumate. And if he's been too cool, that's another reason his stools are so smelly.

Have you ever taken him outside in warm sunshine (temperatures permitting)? That seems to perk up many snakes appetite also.

Catheters come in different sizes...you can google to see charts with measurements.

 

[Helenthereef]

Thing is, temperatures are only dropping now. Most of this has happened through our summer months (Dec - Feb), when I've had to use the portable A/C to maintain 32oC (90oC) - it can get up to 36oC (96oF) if I don't watch it.

I don't usually take them out in the day - these are a nocturnal species and don't seen to appreciate direct sunlight much. In fact, they liven up if I take them out to sniff the moonlight. They are just bloody contrary!

BUT, I'm getting desperate. if he doesn't start eating soon, it may well be compulsory sunbathing for him.

 

[hotlips]

To me, the way he's clinging to that little heater says it all.

 

[hotlips]

And if the sunlight would bother his eyes, you can cover his face with a rag...as long as his body gets to soak up some sunshine. I can't promise...but hey, what if it works?

 

[Helenthereef]

You're right, it's worth a go. Maybe Sunday Sunbathe....

 

[hotlips]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for him...I've seen it help snakes before. Even WE need the sun for Vitamin D, but I don't think the research on snakes is forthcoming any time soon, so you'll have to be content with my anecdotal evidence that it appears to stimulate their metabolism. Sun-bathing sure beats tube-feeding, lol.

 

[hotlips]

How goes the sunbathing? I hope it turns him into a raving monster, lol. I'd take a feisty snake any day over one with no appetite...it's so depressing when they won't eat.

 

[Helenthereef]

Well, of course we had a wet cloudy Sunday... but I got him into the evening sun for about an hour. He didn't seem impressed either way actually, but I shall repeat the experiment when I can.

It's been a bit warmer the last 2 days - daytime around 28oC / 82oF and he's let go of the heater, so I imagine this is a better temperature for him, but I'll leave it in the tank as we move towards our winter so that he has the option.

I'm going to "egg" him once more (with calcium) in a few days before I'm away for a couple of weeks, and while I'm out my partner will offer him a chicken wing or two just in case he turns around in my absence.

Once I get back I'm going to try blended cat food, which includes bone meal. Then in July my partner will bring back some liquid reptile vitamin and calcium supplements. And at SOME POINT, something will work, and likely we'll never know for sure what it was....

With the exception of two small chicken meals he took while he had the RI, the last time he ate voluntarily was 28 May 2017... almost a full year ago. That's essentially a normal 4 month winter fast followed by (so far) 7 months of problems. They are truly amazing animals.

 

[hotlips]

Evening 'sun' probably wasn't enough, but who knows? I truly wouldn't use cat food though, there's just way too many ingredients that aren't normal for a snake. I sure hope he shows improvement soon.

 

[Helenthereef]

Qualified success

Small update: after months of forcing beaten egg with vitamins and probiotics down his throat (and dealing with simply APPALLINGLY stinky stools ), last night I pushed a small piece of chicken wing into him, and this morning it is still inside him (unlike last time when it was sitting proudly regurgitated on the floor of his tank).

On the eggs he's been maintaining weight, and reasonably active, but not exactly thriving. He's still actively recoiling from food offered, but if I can get his system working on solid foods I'll feel as though we are heading slightly in the right direction instead of just stopping him from suicidal starving.

Still a mystery to me what happened here, and why it has persisted so long, but I'll be very happy if this little piece of chicken makes it all the way through to being a proper stool. Of such things dreams are made.....

 

[bcr229]

Fingers crossed he keeps it down.

 

[Helenthereef]

Thanks, will update as anything changes.

 

[hotlips]

I've been wondering if you've had any change or luck. Fingers crossed here too.

 

[Helenthereef]

Well, it's been almost 24 hours now, so hopefully some amount of digestion is going on....

It's cold at night here now (down to 20oC / around 70oF at night, 26 - 28oC/ 80 - 82oF daytime) so my other males are off feed for a few months as as part of their natural cycle. However, Samael still has his hot rock so I hope that will enable digestion, and if it does, who knows? When the others come back on feed maybe he will too.

 

[Helenthereef]

He kept the chicken internalised, now for 12 days, including another piece I forced down him 7 days after the first, (for which I am grateful), but no stool yet.

Chances are he's so empty he's digested the lot, but in another day or so I think I'll do the beaten egg thing again, as that usually gets his digestive system working.....

The reptile vitamin and calcium supplements are here now, so I can at least fortify the egg with something approaching what he should be having vs the fairly random amounts of kids' vitamins I've been giving him.

He's drinking and bathing today, and he seems OK. He must have the constitution of an ox to have withstood all this so far! It's now over a year since he ate regularly voluntarily, and 9 months since he first got sick.

 

[richardhind1972]

Thanks for the update Helen,glad he’s still ok


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[AbsoluteApril]

I'm so glad he's been keeping some solid food down finally!

 

[Helenthereef]

Thanks both!

Last night I gave him another beaten egg with the Fluker reptile liquid vitamins and calcium supplements, using the new #12 feeding tube and 60 ml syringe from the Bean Farm - a LOT easier than my makeshift 50 ml syringe and oxygen tubing. Less stress for all of us.

I am very surprised at the strength of the vitamin supplement though - I had not been able to find the correct dosages for reptiles when I looked on line, but now I see the contents listed on the reptile supplement bottles I can see they are more than 100 x those in the human baby/toddler vitamin drops I had been using. I think I'll start a thread specifically about that, as I could not find any doseage information when I was searching, and it might be helpful to someone else in future.

So, although of course, eggs have lots of vitamins and nutrients, I may have been severely underdosing him with the baby vitamin supplements. Now I have the proper amounts hopefully he'll start to perk up. Watch this space....