• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Boa vs. Ball python market

bear

bear

Recovering Boa addict
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
743
Reaction score
19
Points
0
Location
davisburg, michigan
I am just curious to ask how both markets are doing economically? Have boas and or balls been moving lately? More so in babies then adults? Noticing any market trends? :shrug01: Predictions are always entertaining and welcome! lol
 
Matthew is right on target. All species are suffering in the market today. I think boids in particular may be suffering in part because of the proposed ban. If the ban passes, it will make it very difficult for those whose livelihood revolves around the captive propagation of boids.
 
Breed what you like.... People are not buying like they once were but I am not going to try to predict something as up and down as the reptile market. There are no set prices like a lot think. And if there is who sets them? lol

I am just going to truck along and do what I do. To worry about it takes to much time.
 
I think part of it is that prices on many species and morphs were hyperinflated. Its one thing to ask a high price because a species or morph is rare or difficult to breed. Its another to ask a high price simply arbitrarily. For instance, look at the price of many BP, bearded dragons and leopard geckos. These are very easy to breed, very common and pretty inexpensive to keep yet the prices on most morphs are still skyhigh, then sellers bump the thread a dozen times with no responses and still dont lower the price.
 
Larger species in general will also be hit harder when economy is bad because they cost more to house and feed.
 
All very good points, i definitely see how the ball market is somewhat inflated even still. I wonder how much the boa market is really affected by the bills being considered. I personally have just invested $4,000 or so in boas in the last month without a second thought to the bills being considered. I sign everything I can sign and support where i can to fight the bills but honestly if those bills do pass, the government does not have the man power to enforce captive breeding and sales (especially in michigan where there is no way a species could be introduced in the wild). I will still breed my boas regardless along with most other hobbyists.

In response to bigjej

"These are very easy to breed, very common and pretty inexpensive to keep yet the prices on most morphs are still skyhigh, then sellers bump the thread a dozen times with no responses and still dont lower the price."

I see your point with ridiculous prices and not budging but sometimes price is not the problem. For example I listed an adult male cinnamon breeder bp for sale not more than a month or two ago on fauna for i don't know 350 or so to start. i bumped and bumped and bumped with little serious interest, so i decide price is the problem i lower and lower and lower even down to 150 for an adult breeder flawless feeding cinnamon, this is right in the range of a hatchlings price.. I still could not sell it and ended up doing a trade deal. Now in that situation i dont think the problem was the price, clearly the price was right. I think the problem was you have to wait for the right buyer, and in this business that might take the whole season. What i mean by that was probably no one who saw that add wanted a male cinnamon, had someone seen the add for 300 who wanted one, they very well might have purchased it. Which is why i defend the habitual bumpers, you have to do it if you understand the business, you cannot put an animal up and expect it to move that week or even month unless your willing to dump it, and even still it might not sell.. I am not saying this is the case with every animal, some people price ridiculously and don't budge, but thats their business to do i guess..

just my view on that.
 
Yeah, I've heard more than one person tell me that getting into balls right now is pointless because everyone is breeding and morphs are poor investments. I just do it for the hobby, it's never been about money. My ultimate goal is for my snakes to pay for themselves, without me having to invest extra money into them. The market may be poor but you can't really expect much with the economy just coming around.

Balls will always beat boas simply because more balls fit into smaller places and the morphs are nearly endless. Of course, a beautiful Suriname will beat any ball in my opinion. :)
 
I have noticed on my end that all aspects, whether it is balls or boas are very slow right now, as is everything else in the trade. It has alot to do with a poor economy, but also there are so many people breeding everything, and way to many shows, the market is totaly saturated. Large supply X Saturation X lots of shows X Poor economy = More competition, surplus animals, lower prices.

Has anyone noticed the prices on Co-dom Ball Morphs? Another year or so of these declining prices Co-doms will be the new normals, with alot of them priced at under $150, everyone will have them which means all the double co-doms are gonna drop. Dont get me wrong, the ball market is gonna be around for a long time to come with limitless new morphs, but I dont think prices are gonna stablize and sustain like they have in the past.
 
jntreptiles said:
I have noticed on my end that all aspects, whether it is balls or boas are very slow right now, as is everything else in the trade. It has alot to do with a poor economy, but also there are so many people breeding everything, and way to many shows, the market is totaly saturated. Large supply X Saturation X lots of shows X Poor economy = More competition, surplus animals, lower prices.

Has anyone noticed the prices on Co-dom Ball Morphs? Another year or so of these declining prices Co-doms will be the new normals, with alot of them priced at under $150, everyone will have them which means all the double co-doms are gonna drop. Dont get me wrong, the ball market is gonna be around for a long time to come with limitless new morphs, but I dont think prices are gonna stablize and sustain like they have in the past.
Click to expand...


I agree 100% the ball market is full of double edged swords, it is desirable because they are small, prolific, one male codom can breed many normal females, small cages, etc etc.. but these are all ingredients for a saturated market. A ball python male or female can be bred at a year and a few months making a rapid turn around on your investment which makes people get the get rich quick bug and buy those high dollar codoms.. But at the same time if your not successful in your first year or two with your investment the market has already dropped so far your sol. This is why i prefer the boa market to ball market, boas take 3-5 years for females to reach a reproductive age, so this deters most people looking to get rich quick, it takes years of dedication and when they are ready they are not as consistent as ball pythons so it might take longer than those 3-5 years. Also you cant take an expensive codom and breed to a bunch of normal females, i wouldnt bank on a male hitting more than 2 females with any consistency especially not a first year breeder and raising a bunch of normal females is not worth 3-5 years of your time. And although ball pythons have many morphs... a lesser is a lesser a cinny is a cinny etc etc.. in boas an albino can be a bland $200 snake or can be a bright pink and red $1,000 snake. to me this is why boas are so exciting, every boa is different and some can be remarkable. A boa breeder can fine tune his lines to exactly what he wants and it shows that the breeder has done that. That is just my opinion on the subject, i hope that didnt come off like i was ripping on ball breeders or their market, i respect the hobby and all the breeders, these are just my thoughts..
 
To clarify my earlier post, I wasnt referring to the seller's who bump every other day or week. Of course you want to refresh your ad because not everyone is on the site all the time or looking for a particular specimen at the time. I'm referring to the sellers who price a snake that in good times, forget this economy, goes for $300-400 at $400-500 and then bump it every few hours, rather than considering lowering their price. You tend to see this more with the nonprofessional breeders. What I especially dont get is when people post that they are in a rush to get rid of their snake or collection yet want top dollar for it. In my world, when you need to sell fast, you ask lower prices not higher ones.
 
I agree with Eric on this one. I too, have often wondered when reading alot of the ads online if the sellers ever leave the chair in front of the computer screen and get into the real world. I am not trying mean here, and please dont take it that way.

I can often find animals online for (x amount), then find the same animal (sometimes by the same seller online), at a show for as much as (half x-amount), and with a little shopping and bargaining I can sometimes get that same animal from a reputable breeder for a little bit less.

I am all for getting as much $ from an animal as it is worth, and many animals being sold today are worth more then their actual selling price, unfortunately that is the way things are right now, but agreeing with Eric, most people that are in the rush to get rid of animals are generally those who need the quick cash for some reason, and should consider this when posting their animals and the amount they ask for them.
 
What I dont' understand is sellers and breeders who seem to never look at the other guy's prices. For instance: several large breeders have spiders for 450 or higher. Other large breeders have (equally nice) spiders for 225--I know because I just bought one from PE for that price and she's a stunning animal. It's one thing to see a no-name selling animals cheaply but Pro Exotics is far from a no-name breeder. They're not the only ones selling spiders for those prices either, but some breeders seem to want to charge what they did back in 06...for a co-dom morph that's easy to reproduce, while we're in a crappy economic situation.

For those of us that are just hobbyist, or part time breeders, these animals are a discretionary purchase. We haven't had a raise since 2007 at my job, and just lost a position. Most of my friends are in a similar boat. Do you think I'm looking at multi-thousand dollar animals right now? Hell no. I'm more worried about my house payment, the plumbing I need to fix and if I'll have a job this time next year. When I buy an animal, I look hard for a good price, and am more willing to try new breeders to get it. I want pictures, I want to know what I'm getting...but I'll try new people more readily. 5 or 6 years ago, I'd gladly pay more for a similar quality animal from a big name breeder, just for the peace of mind that came with buying from a big name like Bob Clark or the Sutherlands. Now days? Not so much. I think that may catch a lot of big name breeders short as more people find themselves in similar situations. Might be good for my fellow hobbyist though if it causes people to check out sources they've otherwise skipped over.
 
dangit was going to edit but I forgot we can't.
I think another part of what's happening is that the morphs are sort of shaking out, particularly with BPs. There's umpteen dozen reproducable morphs...some of which are amazing, some of which aren't so much. I think some of this may be that people are starting to figure out which morphs have more to offer just aesthetically, and as far as combining with other morphs--some have more staying power than others, and will be in higher demand because of it.
 
Most defintely there are morphs that are more popular then others. I tend to work with the morphs that I like, but also the ones that I think will be the most sought after and affordable by the general public and hobbyist. Morphs that sell for less then $1000 in todays market seem to move at a fairly average pace, compared to those that sell for more.

I try not to produce as many hets as they are getting harder and harder to sell with all of the scammers around today. Anything now a days could be het for anything and even with documentation, paper is only as good as the word it is written by.

I agree with Paul as to the fact, that I too, now search out some new vendors that have quality animals at a much more fair price then the big guys. I have often wondered at shows, the vendor with the big booth and fancy displays, are his animals really any better quality then that of the little guy? I would say probably a 50% chance of not, but it makes sense that you would have to charge more for those animals to cover the expense of having that nice display.

I think whether an animal is in a nice display or a deli-cup, with a little knowledge, research and common sense, there are still many good deals and good animals out there, as Paul has proven that with his spider purchase.
 
There are a number of reasons for leaving an animal's price 'too high' in the eyes of some.
1) Your reputation is great, so it's going to sell anyhow. These animals are worth what people are willing to pay for them. If they sell at the higher price, why on earth would you lower it?
2) The animal is exceptional in some way, and you don't even mind keeping it if it doesn't sell.
 
I agree. I trust very few people. I would be willing to pay more (or perhaps less, as in the Pro Exotics example) from someone who is highly reputable. I do a considerable amount of research before I buy an animal from someone.

The market may be saturated, but that sort of thing is cyclic. Prices will drop, people will get out of it, prices will increase, more people will get in, etc.

Like I said, it's just a hobby for me. If I ever get it to pay for itself I'll be golden. I don't care about making money with snakes or anything else I plan to breed.

By the way, posts can be edited if you contribute. :)
 
#2 may be the case sometimes--The Retic Ranch has an ivory female that is high priced, but he states in his ad that he's OK keeping her too. That isn't (probably) the case when it's a flat cost for everything of a given morph and gender--i.e. all albino tiger males are 400, all spider females are 300.
I think if #1 was always the case we wouldn't see large breeders get out of projects because they're not profitable, or things of that nature. Or ads continually reposted on K-snake for months on end.
As I said, I don't think all this is actually bad for the hobby; it's pushed me to find new breeders that I'm glad I found, and it's providing those new breeders a break and a chance to get their name out there. So I don't think it's bad for the hobby at all, which is were I disagree with a lot of people who talk about how saturated the market is.
 
Back
Top