Boy Kills Giant Turtle

[Griz]

Jim, in order to make ''smart'' &$# comment, it requires the offender to be........ah, nevermind. That thought would have been lost.

Anyways, are your thoughts so incoherent that you have to be a sounding board for PETA and simply regurge their words instead of simply giving us YOUR definition for YOUR catch phrase?

You keep beating around the bush and avoiding the hypocrisy that is Jim. You have yet to address my questions and have yet to define your version of ''senseless hunting''.

I think you have swallowed what others have fed you for so long that you don't want to admit the fallacies of your thought processes.

Griz

 

[homegrownherps]

Jim, in order to make ''smart'' &$# comment, it requires the offender to be........ah, nevermind. That thought would have been lost.

Anyways, are your thoughts so incoherent that you have to be a sounding board for PETA and simply regurge their words instead of simply giving us YOUR definition for YOUR catch phrase?

You keep beating around the bush and avoiding the hypocrisy that is Jim. You have yet to address my questions and have yet to define your version of ''senseless hunting''.

I think you have swallowed what others have fed you for so long that you don't want to admit the fallacies of your thought processes.

Griz

you've called me stupid.
you've been sarcastic.
Now your telling me my opinion is not my own.
And yet you want me to answer your question.

its pretty simple, I think hunting defenseless animals is senseless.
what part of the don't you get? I'm not beating around the bush, the turtle killed in the news article was a waste.

if you don't like my personal opinion thats fine, I don't really give a damm.
thats my opinion, its not based on any one event.

you can read so much into what I post , but you couldn't figure the answer to the question.
I am done with this thread, justify what you do how ever you wish, I still think its killing that shouldn't take place.

To bad they don't shoot back.

 

[Griz]

I have made my comments solely based upon your lack of coherency on this topic. You do not see the hypocrisy in your stance yet everyone else does! At some point you have to ask yourself why that is.

AND, the biggest problem here is not your hypocritical statements (as sad as that thought might be). THE BIGGEST PROBLEM HERE IS THAT IN MORE THAN ONE THREAD YOU HAVE WISHED HARM UPON THE HUMAN IN PLACE OF THE ANIMAL!!!

You value the life of an animal over that of a human. I hope you think about that as you:

1) eat your steak
2) wear your leather coat
3) feed your animals pinkies
4) take animals from their natural environment for your own selfish collection......

Jim, I do not believe you are stupid. I simply think that you have not taken the time to intellectually think through your own beliefs. Your thoughts are emotional based. I derive this opinion solely from the fact that you have not backed up your thoughts with any facts or logical thought processes. I would encourage you to think through this a bit more before responding.

Griz

 

[sfaoldguy]

I would like a link to where you got your data on the number of animals killed by hunters each year... Thanks...

 

[sfaoldguy]

Sounds like you was directing it to me, at least it sure looked that way.
just about all of your posts about this have been sarcastic.
If you want to be a smart @$$, espect the same in return.


this seems like senseless hunting to me;

Hunting, the stalking and killing of animals, has been an American tradition most likely since the Ice Age when plant food became scarce. Today it exists as a "sport"; even when the animals' flesh is eaten, there is no excuse or justification for stalking and killing an animal in his or her habitat. Nevertheless, people not only engage in hunting but strongly defend it as their right to do so. With an arsenal of rifles, shotguns, muzzleloaders, handguns, bows and arrows, hunters kill more than 200 million animals yearly - crippling, orphaning, and harassing millions more. The annual death toll in the U.S. includes 42 million mourning doves, 30 million squirrels, 28 million quail, 25 million rabbits, 20 million pheasants, 14 million ducks, 6 million deer, and thousands of geese, bears, moose, elk, antelope, swans, cougars, turkeys, wolves, foxes, coyotes, bobcats, boars, and other woodland creatures. (Data from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and state wildlife agencies.)

This is the post I am asking for a few links to any of this information... Thanks

 

[Dennis Hultman]

This is the post I am asking for a few links to any of this information... Thanks

I just googled it. It came up word for word from this site.

In Defense of Animals 3010 Kerner Blvd., San Rafael, CA 94901

http://www.idausa.org/facts/hunting.html

 

[sfaoldguy]

I just googled it. It came up word for word from this site.

In Defense of Animals 3010 Kerner Blvd., San Rafael, CA 94901

http://www.idausa.org/facts/hunting.html

Word for word except the fact that it was compiled and published by a site that opposes hunting, not "(Data from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and state wildlife agencies.)"... It is very important to understand the source of the statistical information being presented... With a state agency cutting the mourning dove number in almost half, it throws serious shadows over the integrity of that data... They also failed to include the following information to put the data in perspective so people can make educated decisions...

"The mourning dove is one of the most abundant and widely distributed birds in the United States. The current continent-wide population estimate is over 400 million in the fall migration...Nationwide, approximately 22.7 million doves are harvested annually. " - http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12202-77390--,00.html

Mourning doves lay two eggs each clutch and lay 2 to 5 clutches per year... I will use 3 clutches per year to be conservative here... Of those 3 cluthes a year to equal 6 chicks between 2 adult doves, 40% survive over one year of age. Putting all of this together, only about 4.7% of the current Mourning dove population needs to reproduce to replace the doves taken by hunters...

Do I really need to look up the rest of them and put them into perspective? One I don't even need to look up is the one about boars which are an introduced species to North America and have lead to the decline of much of our native wildlife... For boars, hunt on....

 

[Dennis Hultman]

LOL, I was just stating where he copied the information from.
Wasn’t lending support to the information posted.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I thought, if anything it took merit away from the argument he was presenting based on the site the information was coming from. They even dislike other extremist organizations if you continue reading that page.

 

[sfaoldguy]

oh, LOL, I wasn't sure on your support or not but I thank you for the link... The only comparable data I found to it was another non-government site that put the total of all species killed at around 100 mil where this site puts it at 200 mil...

 

[Dennis Hultman]

To clarify my personal opinion-
I believe anyone has a right to disagree with hunting. I don’t fault Jim for his beliefs. I do have a problem with those who would impose that belief onto others. Extremism on both ends of the issue is what I disagree with. If you read that page you will see that they support interfering, taunting hunters. Hunting In my opinion, is a choice and should have regulations as it does.
As a teen, I went hunting often. I don’t have a desire to at this point in life. That doesn’t mean I should be able to take that ability away from anyone else.

 

[shrap]

I have never been to my grandpa's place once and seen anything from a store other than sugar, flour, rice, spices and a few condiments. Oh and beer. EVERYTHING else comes straight off of what is left of his farm and the acres of woods he lives on. Hell the closest "general" store is about a 45 minute drive.

They have always "lived off the land". That is the only life he knows. 95% of the meat he eats comes from the land around him. Snakes, turtles, deer, rabbit, squirrel, duck, turkey, etc..... I can only remember two or three times I have ever had a meal at his place that was pig or cow. And I can assure you those did not come from the grocery store either.

Everyones lifestyles are different. That dont make them wrong or senseless. Just different. If you were to talk to my grandpa we would be asking why people eat all these foods that have chemicals in them and are genetically altered? To him that makes no sense.

I personally wonder what is better for you. Grocery store foods or the food he grows and the meat he hunts? He was born in 1923, has smoked and drank for more than 65 years but is still healthy and as active as any man in their 40's. Sure makes you wonder if all this grocery store food is what is best for us.

 

[kmurphy]

I believe anyone has a right to disagree with hunting. I don’t fault Jim for his beliefs. I do have a problem with those who would impose that belief onto others. Extremism on both ends of the issue is what I disagree with. If you read that page you will see that they support interfering, taunting hunters. Hunting In my opinion, is a choice and should have regulations as it does.

I agree Dennis. Good post.

 

[Bill & Amy]

To clarify my personal opinion-
I believe anyone has a right to disagree with hunting. I don’t fault Jim for his beliefs. I do have a problem with those who would impose that belief onto others. Extremism on both ends of the issue is what I disagree with. If you read that page you will see that they support interfering, taunting hunters. Hunting In my opinion, is a choice and should have regulations as it does.
As a teen, I went hunting often. I don’t have a desire to at this point in life. That doesn’t mean I should be able to take that ability away from anyone else.

 

[ms_terese]

I personally wonder what is better for you. Grocery store foods or the food he grows and the meat he hunts?

My money is on the way your grandpa does it. Don't get me started on nutrition in this country...

 

[Griz]

I concur with you Dennis. I have no problem with someone who is opposed to hunting. What I do have a problem with is people who oppose hunting for the wrong reason. For someone to tell me that I should not be able to hunt deer because that person enjoys seeing them. Yet, that same person believe it's fine to buy meat from a store (since those animals were raised for slaughter) or if that person is housing animals in small cages, then I get my ire up.

What really gets me going is when that same person makes comments to the effect that he values animal lives over that of humans. Check out this comment that he made ----> I hope the turtle was ok

He made similar comments in this very thread as well.

Griz

 

[homegrownherps]

I concur with you Dennis. I have no problem with someone who is opposed to hunting. What I do have a problem with is people who oppose hunting for the wrong reason. For someone to tell me that I should not be able to hunt deer because that person enjoys seeing them. Yet, that same person believe it's fine to buy meat from a store (since those animals were raised for slaughter) or if that person is housing animals in small cages, then I get my ire up.

What really gets me going is when that same person makes comments to the effect that he values animal lives over that of humans. Check out this comment that he made ----> I hope the turtle was ok

He made similar comments in this very thread as well.

Griz

Some of you people act as those this should be over on the BOI, I can believe in what I want, right - or is that not allowed here on this forum? I don't like hunting - I don't hunt. Your going to hunt no matter what I think about it. I know people that hunt, some for meat and some for the "sport". I don't see the sport in it. Do I think less of them because they hunt – No. Do I force my beliefs on them - No. But in return they don’t brag about in front of me. They even have given me some meat to try, I tried it - and I didn’t find anything special about it. But don't try to discredit me because I believe or don't believe in something. I really don't care if you hunt or not, I would rather see them alive than dead. Just because you prefer them dead on your wall and in your freezer doesn’t mean I have to like them that way. My preference is alive. In a zoo or in the wild as long as I can enjoy them the way I want....ALIVE. My reasons are my reasons - who are you to say if their right or wrong.

When you shot an animal out of the wild, it’s not the same as someone buying meat from the store. But of course you don't believe me when I say anything anyway. You continue to call me a liar, you've called me stupid, you've been sarcastic, and I was wondering how long it would take you to bring in the spelling errors. All that has to do with what I think about hunting....how? In pretty much all the of the posts you have made you have been belligerent towards me. Is that the typical hunters mentality?

I didn't say ALL hunting was senseless, I have seen many times, deer parts on the side of a deserted road that were poached and most of the deer was still there...that’s senseless. Did I say ALL hunters do that...no I didn't.
I am not trying to cram what I think about hunting down anyone’s throat, you asked me so I told you ....if you don't like the answers - don't ask the questions. You need to stop pushing your beliefs on me.

If I had no other options, and if I absolutely had to - I would probably hunt too. I just prefer to work, and buy my food.

And again Griz you moron ...what does me keeping LIVE animals have to do with you killing animals? I keep snakes that are ALL captive bred and remain that way. You keep asking me to answer your questions, but fail answer mine.
But thats OK, you don't have to.
Maybe you should stop trying to find fault in what I believe in and get on w/ your life.

So ..I said I hope the turtle was OK....what’s your problem w/ that ?
I read the article and there was no mention of the turtle, it clearly stated everyone was OK.
Would I have stopped and done what that lady did...no
I see animals in the road all the time, but I will not cause a wreck to stop and save one. But I will save one if I can.
Hell, I have even run things over myself just so I didn’t cause a wreck. So where does you theory that I value animal life
over human life fit into that...or am I lying again. Why don’t you find something else to do.

Stop trying to discredit what I believe in, to justify what you do and believe.


I value ALL life.

I'll tell you what Griz...why don’t you stop by and chat with me after one of the reptile shows if you’re in the area.
I can express myself much better in person than on any forum or thru email.
This was a decent discussion until you came into it and started pushing your beliefs on me. And still, you don’t see me asking you to justify what you do.


By the way...if you find spelling errors blame on the spell check, I spell check before every post.

 

[Griz]

Some of you people act as those this should be over on the BOI, I can believe in what I want, right - or is that not allowed here on this forum? I don't like hunting - I don't hunt. Your going to hunt no matter what I think about it. I know people that hunt, some for meat and some for the "sport". I don't see the sport in it. Do I think less of them because they hunt – No. Do I force my beliefs on them - No. But in return they don’t brag about in front of me. They even have given me some meat to try, I tried it - and I didn’t find anything special about it. But don't try to discredit me because I believe or don't believe in something. I really don't care if you hunt or not, I would rather see them alive than dead. Just because you prefer them dead on your wall and in your freezer doesn’t mean I have to like them that way. My preference is alive. In a zoo or in the wild as long as I can enjoy them the way I want....ALIVE. My reasons are my reasons - who are you to say if their right or wrong.

Jim, I think you are suffering from either a lapse in memory or you simply cannot put 2 + 2 together. Let me remind you of your post that started this all:

Yes ...same goes for the north too !

But when you go hunting isn't there more than the need of JUST ammo ?
A trip to the grocery store and head to the meat dept. seems some much easier

Oh wait I have heard about "the thrill of the hunt"
Track down defenseless animals - or just bait them and wait for them to walk up and then shoot them. sounds like a real challenge

You, not I, started attacking hunters. You made the first comment and showed your true colors. I have simply been baiting you to speak more so that YOU discredit yourself. You have done all of the work for me.

When you shot an animal out of the wild, it’s not the same as someone buying meat from the store. But of course you don't believe me when I say anything anyway. You continue to call me a liar, you've called me stupid, you've been sarcastic, and I was wondering how long it would take you to bring in the spelling errors. All that has to do with what I think about hunting....how? In pretty much all the of the posts you have made you have been belligerent towards me. Is that the typical hunters mentality?

How is it different? Enlighten us, oh magnificent one. The only difference is that YOU are not the one pulling the trigger. I am at least man enough to get my own hands bloody instead of simply relying on the butcher. Then again, you have failed to grasp this point that has been spoken by several others on this board. Maybe your LEATHER chair is too comfy.........

I didn't say ALL hunting was senseless, I have seen many times, deer parts on the side of a deserted road that were poached and most of the deer was still there...that’s senseless. Did I say ALL hunters do that...no I didn't.

You have yet to define senseless hunting. YOU DID MENTION THAT STATE LICENSE ALLIGATOR HUNTERS WERE POACHERS. Did you not? FYI, if you shoot something and leave it alongside the road, you are NOT a hunter. 100% of all hunters attempt to shoot cleanly and efficiently. They eat or provide the meat to others. That's right, 100% of them do this. If you don't, then you are NOT a hunter.

I am not trying to cram what I think about hunting down anyone’s throat, you asked me so I told you ....if you don't like the answers - don't ask the questions. You need to stop pushing your beliefs on me.

Sure you are, otherwise you would not have tried to spew ignorance in the first few posts on this thread. You pushed your beliefs on others by attacking legitimate hunters. If you can't stand by your convictions (or in this case intelligently defend them) then keep them to yourself. I thought you said you were done with this thread?

If I had no other options, and if I absolutely had to - I would probably hunt too. I just prefer to work, and buy my food.

No you wouldn't. In your PM to me you stated you don't eat meat so why in the world would you hunt? Was your PM just a lie? Here, let me remind you of what your PM stated:

1) eat your steak - I dont eat steak
2) wear your leather coat - I dont own a leather coat
3) feed your animals pinkies - rodents are not "wild" animals shot for pleasure.
4) take animals from their natural environment for your own selfish collection......and again you acuse me of something I dont do.

stop trying to put me in the same class as yourself.

And again Griz you moron ...what does me keeping LIVE animals have to do with you killing animals? I keep snakes that are ALL captive bred and remain that way. You keep asking me to answer your questions, but fail answer mine.
But thats OK, you don't have to.
Maybe you should stop trying to find fault in what I believe in and get on w/ your life.

Stop it, you're hurting my feelings. YOU STATED ONE OF THE REASONS WHY YOU HATED HUNTING WAS THAT YOU PREFER TO SEE THE ANIMALS IN THE WILD! Yet, you have animals that originated from the wild that you are keeping in very SUBPAR conditions compared to their natural environments. Yes, they are alive but they are living lives that are far less than ideal. I am sure the people of Central and South America would have prefered that you left those animals in THEIR wild so that THEY could enjoy them! There, I have now answered your question for the umpteenth time. Hypocrite...

So ..I said I hope the turtle was OK....what’s your problem w/ that ?
I read the article and there was no mention of the turtle, it clearly stated everyone was OK.
Would I have stopped and done what that lady did...no
I see animals in the road all the time, but I will not cause a wreck to stop and save one. But I will save one if I can.
Hell, I have even run things over myself just so I didn’t cause a wreck. So where does you theory that I value animal life
over human life fit into that...or am I lying again. Why don’t you find something else to do.

You specifically mentioned that you wished the animals could shoot back. Implying that you wish the animals could kill the hunter. You also mentioned, on a thread that involved a multiple car accident, that you hoped the turtle made it out ok. Instead of making a post that I sure hope they catch the lady who did this, or I sure hope all of the people recuperated ok, you are worried about the turtle. Heck, with any luck, maybe that turtle was a huge snapper.......

Stop trying to discredit what I believe in, to justify what you do and believe.


I value ALL life.

Again, you have done a fine job of that yourself. You've contradicted yourself on numerous occasions. Maybe you do value all life but you obviously place a hierarchy on those lives thereby placing animals above the hunter.

I'll tell you what Griz...why don’t you stop by and chat with me after one of the reptile shows if you’re in the area.
I can express myself much better in person than on any forum or thru email.
This was a decent discussion until you came into it and started pushing your beliefs on me. And still, you don’t see me asking you to justify what you do.


By the way...if you find spelling errors blame on the spell check, I spell check before every post.

I will be more than happy to Jim. Just look for the 6'6" 280lb Hunter walking around. Although, I seriously doubt you can formulate a coherent conversation if you can't do so with a keyboard.

BTW, spell check does not correct simple elementary grammatical errors such as "your" when you should have use "you're" as an example. Or stating "when you shot an animal" when it should have been shoot. Both are spelled correctly but when used inappropriately become a misspelling all by itself.

So, what is "senseless hunting"? Hurry up, you can probably run to PETA's sight so that it does not involve you actually coming up with your own definition......

Griz

 

[homegrownherps]

griz , you know what ..your an idiot.
why should I look for you in a crowd, I usually have a table or two, so just stop by.
And your height and weight don't mean a thing to me, and why is that relevant to this unless you plan to force your beliefs on me physically?

I sent you my number to call and invited to to stop and to talk in person, feel free to do so. Because I am sure people are tired of reading all this, I know I am tired of typing it.

you and no oneelse can tell me what to believe in. And because you don't agree what I believe doesn't make it wrong. I don't have to prove a thing to you or anyone else.

so save you rude arrogant remarks for some one else.

 

[homegrownherps]

send me your number, and I'll call you since you dont have in you to call me.