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Bad Guy Brandon Griffey

khoffman said:
Ok Im gonna chime in on this one. First off when buying animals from people that say they are healthy nothing wrong with them you would assume you could put the snake into your collection regaurdless of quarentine. If people were honest there would be absolutly no reason for quarentine. A snake should not die within 10 day and if it does, the seller should be responsible for a replacement or at least half the monitary value or something. Snakes dont just up and die in 10 days. Meanwhile nothing else is dieing at toms place. Xavier is also selling all his snakes now isnt that kinda fishy right after this snake dies hes selling all his snakes. Seems very fishy and dishonest to me. From the get go tom and brandon have been honest ya they put it with females and they did whatever they arent hiding anything. I just think xavier should do something for them and not leave this sit like it is and ignore thier calls and emails.
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The fact that I'm selling my snakes has nothing to do with the issue with Brandon. I have my reason far beyond keeping reptiles. I can't say I see a point in letting go my collection with the first trade issue I've had. The snake was healthy as any snake I've seen when I shipped. I have not avoiding speaking with Brandon I have replied to all his e-mails. Had a chosen to speak with him on the phone rather than e-mail I'd not have any documentation.
 
radera5 said:
I was just referring to if I walk in and find him dead one day :(...then we would have a pretty good idea. If he doesn't die...then I will have to assume after his QT that he is healthy.

I enjoy the minimal talks I have had with Brandon and Xavier was great to deal with.

I hate to see something like this happen to anyone, it is especially hard considering I have had friendly conversations with both gentleman.

I really wish this could end happily for everyone but at this point that seems like a long shot. :(
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this is not going to happen . let me ask you if your snake died what would you expect from him
 
They only reason why Tom is this situation is because he shipped the snakes for me delta dash and he gave me a the enchi pastel to complete the deal and he knows a good vet in area. I really appreciate his help in this whole situation. I don't have alot of free time with hours I work.
 
Xavier said:
The fact that I'm selling my snakes has nothing to do with the issue with Brandon. I have my reason far beyond keeping reptiles. I can't say I see a point in letting go my collection with the first trade issue I've had. The snake was healthy as any snake I've seen when I shipped. I have not avoiding speaking with Brandon I have replied to all his e-mails. Had a chosen to speak with him on the phone rather than e-mail I'd not have any documentation.
Click to expand...

it still doesnt look good for you now does it . it way your snake had problems internally and it died and your choosing not to take care of it ???

this should look real good for posting this up here any normal person would think just like kyle , your selling your stuff becuase you think there is a problem ,, i know i got one of those problems and you infected my collection now . how do you think i feel now and good luck with my snakes i hope you enjoy them . i bet there still alive right .

anyway good luck with your future sales and if you need any referances tell them to contact one of us , im sure to put in a good word for you lol,

like hey if you get more then 10 days out of it thats more then we got , good luck
 
Snakemanbonk said:
They only reason why Tom is this situation is because he shipped the snakes for me delta dash and he gave me a the enchi pastel to complete the deal and he knows a good vet in area. I really appreciate his help in this whole situation. I don't have alot of free time with hours I work.
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brandon i have resopnded to this forum since your at work leave it alone were done here . he brought this upon himself

so for anyone that gets a snake from xavier good luck with it ,they look great like a box of chocolates but you never know what your going to get inside

and if you dont get what your expecting oh well they still looked good ,,good luck
 
thomas raspoptsis said:
brandon i have resopnded to this forum since your at work leave it alone were done here . he brought this upon himself

so for anyone that gets a snake from xavier good luck with it ,they look great like a box of chocolates but you never know what your going to get inside

and if you dont get what your expecting oh well they still looked good ,,good luck
Click to expand...

Thank you! :)
 
Exactly how can you say there is no need for quarantine and then make a statement like this...

thomas raspoptsis said:
, i know i got one of those problems and you infected my collection now .
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If your collection has an infection from his animal: A) provide proof B) It's because you didn't quarantine the animal.

As you and others have stated, if he said the animal is healthy, you shouldn't need to. I disagree. If you value your animals more than the money you hope to make off of them, you quarantine no matter what. I don't care if they are from the most respected person in the herp community, it's coming from a different environment than yours, and shipping stress is known to trigger unknown issues. To not quarantine a new animal is both naive and irresponsible imo.
 
thomas raspoptsis said:
thats what it was traded for to breed it was suppose to be healthy and quarintine or not it should not have died in 10 days
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Comparative fault. I'm not saying there was an underlying issue but you put a young snake to breeding right after shipping.

thomas raspoptsis said:
think people buy snakes in breeding season and dont put them with females right away dont kid yourself its done everyday .breeder males are for sale every were right now with the adds saying . hey he has done his job here and has much more spark left in him and can breed a few more girls (NOT AN EXACT QUOTE BUT )
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Are you really seriously saying that because someone else does something it must be OK?

thomas raspoptsis said:
he could not say .there really is no way to tell becuase he had to see it visually .just like they cant pinpoint why it died on a exact problem ,the symtoms were inside the snake and not visuall ,it had 5 things wrong with it in the necropsy and 4 more tests to be done on the heart the trachea the lung and the brain , but they take a longer time

so if you look at are point of view yes stress could have killed it
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I know you are upset at the loss of your snake. But if you are admitting that it could have been stress, and the vet could not say how long the ulcers existed, maybe it isn't fair to automatically fault the other party?
 
Lucille said:
There is something called comparative fault, where the fault is apportioned between the parties. That might be a useful tool here. Certainly there is stress associated with being shipped (remember it is not just flight time, there is the boxing up, taking to the airport, etc.) and then being breed right away.

Your position would have been stronger had you quarantined which is a basic husbandry procedure.
Click to expand...

:iagree: Reading the story, I am just struck by the fact that it seems obscure that one doesn't understand that buying an animal is a RISK. You can buy one and later it dies of cancer..should we go after the breeder for "Mother Nature's" mistakes?

I spent over 1K on a gorgeous female "odd" Pastel, only to have her die 6 months later of a systemic infection, which I believe was from the deep puncture bites/burns that had healed on her...but as I had had her for SIX months in quarantine and she was finally eating...I got the necropsy and let the matter go (after complaining to Harald). I could not tell if the stress had been a factor in the infection taking over, because I had had her for a while. She might have lived to a ripe old age in her original owner's hands...who knows?

But, I'm rambling...the point is, if the snake did have a health issue that wasn't something that was a result of the breeder's care, how far are breeders to go in making customers happy, especially customers that aren't following quarantine procedures and are creating additional stress on the animal?
 
You Guy's are missing the big picture! Yes Brandon didn't quarantine the snake thats now on him and his collection unfortunately but the snake was SICK before it was in there care. That being said Brandon should be compensated whether that being another snake or his snakes back!!!!! Definitely looks like a bad guy post for the poster!!!!!!!!!!!
 
FAZE31 said:
You Guy's are missing the big picture! Yes Brandon didn't quarantine the snake thats now on him and his collection unfortunately but the snake was SICK before it was in there care. That being said Brandon should be compensated whether that being another snake or his snakes back!!!!! Definitely looks like a bad guy post for the poster!!!!!!!!!!!
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Have I overlooked some evidence? I didn't see anything proving that the snake was sick before it got there FROM anything that the breeder did or didn't do? :shrug01:
 
Did they not provide the proof from the vet? That would be enough proof for me if i was the one involved in the trade! Come on now the snake had five things total wrong with it. Are you trying to say the snake had these problems occur in nine days? Something is not right with that picture sorry but thats my opinion and everyone is untitled to one.
 
FAZE31 said:
You Guy's are missing the big picture! Yes Brandon didn't quarantine the snake thats now on him and his collection unfortunately but the snake was SICK before it was in there care. That being said Brandon should be compensated whether that being another snake or his snakes back!!!!! Definitely looks like a bad guy post for the poster!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thank you , finally some who understands you all are missing the big picture it. Died in 10 days what don't you get about this 10 days. What's your. Guarantee it looks good on the out side so it's ok . Im done with this you think he should not be responsible after 10 days and I do a necropsy and it shows problems , so be it ok he is not responsible .
But it still died so why don't you buy some snakes from him ands quarantine them
Good luck every one on breeding this year
 
Snakemanbonk said:
They only reason why Tom is this situation is because he shipped the snakes for me delta dash and he gave me a the enchi pastel to complete the deal and he knows a good vet in area.
Click to expand...

Really? That is the only reason? Lets just count the reasons presented here.

1) Tom supplied the enchi pastel to complete the trade.
2) Shipped your snakes.
3) Tom had your new snake in his possession.
4) Tom (with or without your permission) attempted to breed the snake with multiple females.
5) The animal died in Tom's care ( I am not saying it is his fault, just noting that).
6) Tom's name is on the vet report, so I assume he took him there.
7) Tom is in the room videotaping the necropsy.
8) Tom is here posting (and even provided information about pairings)
9) In this post, Tom basically tells you to stop talking.
thomas raspoptsis said:
brandon i have resopnded to this forum since your at work leave it alone were done here .
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Did I miss anything?

I guess my next question is:
What was Brandon's role in this?
 
Question for Tom and Frank: If the Vet can't reasonably speculate cause of death yet and can't (or hasn't been asked to) state how long the issues noted were there; what qualifies either of you to be able to do so? Unless you are in possession of information not yet stated, or qualifications above and beyond that of the vet; to say it could not have developed an issue and died that quickly is just an opinion. Passionate as it may be, there is no real evidence to support it.
 
Put yourself in Brandon's situation Brad! If you were to trade for a snake and it pasted away in nine days would you not be upset then on top of it get a bad guy post?
 
DaveyFig said:
Really? That is the only reason? Lets just count the reasons presented here.

1) Tom supplied the enchi pastel to complete the trade.
2) Shipped your snakes.
3) Tom had your new snake in his possession.
4) Tom (with or without your permission) attempted to breed the snake with multiple females.
5) The animal died in Tom's care ( I am not saying it is his fault, just noting that).
6) Tom's name is on the vet report, so I assume he took him there.
7) Tom is in the room videotaping the necropsy.
8) Tom is here posting (and even provided information about pairings)
9) In this post, Tom basically tells you to stop talking.


Did I miss anything?
yes you did miss something i have snakes with people at various spots doing different projects im talking for brandon as he is at working driving a semi . do you think its a good idea him texting and driving being pissed off about this trying to respond to every thread , so im doing it for him ,

you can all think what you like ,it doesnt change the fact that the snake died in 10 days , you can blame me i made it sick by getting it with brandon and trying to breed it with brandons females , oh thats what alot of people do my bad, i didnt know we werent suppose to do that, i appologize im going to crawl back under my rock and hide again . oh better yet i will just go back to breeding my million dollar ball python collection and not talk to anyone . its better under the rock . you try to do things right getting an autopsy and necropsy and finding underlying problems , but hey its my fault i put that stuff in the snake the 10 minutes i saw it at the airport , oh wait i put the problems in it after it died , i just shoved them in there when it was dead

I guess my next question is:
What was Brandon's role in this?
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i dont understand all this drama the snake died in 10 days thats all that matters im the one that paid for the results and tests and im still paying for the tests that are still being done , but what ever this is not worth my time im going back to watch my coral glow spinner blast lay eggs ,, later have a great day as i will
 
to ALL the people that have spoken on here. with 1 month or 100 yrs experience. Yes, qt is important. Yes, qt MIGHT have drawn out the life of the snake longer. If the snake had these issues they WOULD have surfaced NEXT season and hte results would be hte same and Brandon would be out AGAIN.. Stop making excuses, NO snake dies in 10 days IF healhty, NONE !!!!! Practice all the crap you want, it jsut doesn't happen. Screw your damn live arrival guarantee as well. People make me sick with all thier excuses and finger pointing. Snake had underlying conditions, period end of story. You should at hte VERY LEAST return one of the snakes. You won't because your getting out and don't care of the reprecussions. This scenerio holds true in the dog world and even the exotic mammmal world.
 
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