Rebel Dragons
Enjoys his quiet time.
Does anyone here breed their own fruitflies for their chams? Or is it just cheaper to buy them?
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Breeding fruitflies
- Thread starter Rebel Dragons
- Start date
John Apple
senior apple arachnid
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2002
- Messages
- 1,724
- Reaction score
- 15
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- Age
- 62
- Location
- southern Michigan, Ypsilanti
They can be costly , hard to believe as they are so friggin small so I breed my own and I usually end up with more than I need at feeding time. and tonight that is . I feed them to small geckos and small 
chameleons and of sourse baby tarantulas. So tonight I'll feed about 200 baby tarantulas and probably drop 10 in the bigger babies. Easy to do and cost effective.
They breed pretty fast, heck man faster than my T's
chameleons and of sourse baby tarantulas. So tonight I'll feed about 200 baby tarantulas and probably drop 10 in the bigger babies. Easy to do and cost effective.They breed pretty fast, heck man faster than my T's
dragonflyreptiles
New member
It really has to be a what will you feed out and an at end cost.
A 32oz culture will produce a couple hundred flies per day once established for about 3.5 weeks (they say 4 but Ive never had them go past 24 days).
If you have a large number of babies to feed a couple of times a day a kit is more effective, the flies will produce their butts off, so you can start with 2 32oz cultures, the extra medium and containers for 20 cultures for about $20 (last time I bought them) and grow your own for a couple of months. Or pay $4-6 each 32oz culture plus shipping.
A 32oz culture will produce a couple hundred flies per day once established for about 3.5 weeks (they say 4 but Ive never had them go past 24 days).
If you have a large number of babies to feed a couple of times a day a kit is more effective, the flies will produce their butts off, so you can start with 2 32oz cultures, the extra medium and containers for 20 cultures for about $20 (last time I bought them) and grow your own for a couple of months. Or pay $4-6 each 32oz culture plus shipping.
Chameleon Company
New member
Mike,
Fruit flies are a very poor choice for any chameleons as a staple diet. You are far better off with small crickets which you can gutload yourself. You cannot gutload fruitflies, and from nutritional standpoint, that makes them a very narrow, and not staple, choice of nutrition. 1/8" crickets or larger are fine, depending on the size of your chameleons. Judge by the distance across the top of the head of your chameleons. Do not waste your money ordering pinheads. For growing chameleons (first 4 months), a simple but effective gutload is any brand of fish-flakes, and either frozen green vegetables, or fresh collards or spinach greens. Forget the fruit flies, except as a snack.
Fruit flies are a very poor choice for any chameleons as a staple diet. You are far better off with small crickets which you can gutload yourself. You cannot gutload fruitflies, and from nutritional standpoint, that makes them a very narrow, and not staple, choice of nutrition. 1/8" crickets or larger are fine, depending on the size of your chameleons. Judge by the distance across the top of the head of your chameleons. Do not waste your money ordering pinheads. For growing chameleons (first 4 months), a simple but effective gutload is any brand of fish-flakes, and either frozen green vegetables, or fresh collards or spinach greens. Forget the fruit flies, except as a snack.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
Im sorry but I disagree about the gutload. I have tried different gotloads and fish flakes and veges are not sufficient.
There are publised articles about the ill effects of poor gutload for crickets esp where Chameleons are concerned.
http://www.chameleonnews.com/gutload.html
Fruit Flies are gutloaded IF they are on a premium vitamin enriched meduim.
There are publised articles about the ill effects of poor gutload for crickets esp where Chameleons are concerned.
http://www.chameleonnews.com/gutload.html
Fruit Flies are gutloaded IF they are on a premium vitamin enriched meduim.
Chameleon Company
New member
OK, if it hasn't worked for you, then what do you recommend? "Vitamin enriched" medium? OK, fruit with vitamins? What is the medium you recommend for fruit flies that meets the nutritional needs of chameleons? I am very curious about the protein and mineral analysis of the fruit mediums? Fruit flies are OK if part of a varied diet, but are much further from what is considered a staple diet, and are not a good strting basis for any diet. Crickets and other bugs that eat a more varied diet have been shown to be excellent staple bugs. Even houseflies make far better staple bugs than fruit flies. Show me the data, eh? BTW, fish flakes and veggies, combined with basic vitamin and mineral supplementation which is recommended by all, do have a long track record of success with chameleons. And it is easier than making your own from scratch, which many keepers with just a few pets are not able to do. That link, while informative as background info , does not provide a simple recipe, or any recipe.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
I suggested fruit flies for the first few weeks not as a STAPLE, reading can sometimes be a problem for those who write too much.
I have never suggested Fruit flies as a staple but as a from birth to a cricket sixed feeder.
Fruit flies raised on fruit lol that would be a riot
Fruit flies should and are properly raised on a vitamin enriched medium:
as such this is not what you would want to raise fruit flies on for newborn chams:
1 cup of water
1 tablespoon cornmeal
1 teaspoon agar (available at health food stores)
1 tablespoon molasses
1/8 teaspoon calcium proprionate (available at chemical suppliers)
1 package baking yeast
From: http://www.a1reptiles.com/a1ffcare.html
Fruit flies need to be gutloaded just as any other insect:
From: http://fins.actwin.com/live-foods/month.9904/msg00005.html
I personally add
infant rice cereal
calcium
agar agar
yeast
vionate
then water
corn meal
agar
vitamins (like One-A-Day multivitamin pill)
mold inhibitor
yeast
grind fine in mixer then add water to texture, add adult flies to produce cultures
I have never suggested Fruit flies as a staple but as a from birth to a cricket sixed feeder.
Fruit flies raised on fruit lol that would be a riot
Fruit flies should and are properly raised on a vitamin enriched medium:
as such this is not what you would want to raise fruit flies on for newborn chams:
1 cup of water
1 tablespoon cornmeal
1 teaspoon agar (available at health food stores)
1 tablespoon molasses
1/8 teaspoon calcium proprionate (available at chemical suppliers)
1 package baking yeast
From: http://www.a1reptiles.com/a1ffcare.html
Fruit flies need to be gutloaded just as any other insect:
From: http://fins.actwin.com/live-foods/month.9904/msg00005.html
I personally add
infant rice cereal
calcium
agar agar
yeast
vionate
then water
corn meal
agar
vitamins (like One-A-Day multivitamin pill)
mold inhibitor
yeast
grind fine in mixer then add water to texture, add adult flies to produce cultures
Chameleon Company
New member
Wendy,
I started off my first post here by saying that fruit flies were a poor staple. That was not in criticism of anyone. No one had mentioned it as an exclusive diet for young chams at that point, and I didn't want to give anyone the impression that it was a good idea. Only this very last post of yours says its OK until the chams are "cricket sized", but not as a staple. That is a contradiction of sorts at this point, because if its all their eating, its staple. Who is "reading to fast"?
I give my opinion on gutload and staple diets. You post a disagreement and say its not sufficient, but do not explain. Am I wrong to ask for an explanation?
If you choose to feed your chameleon fruit flies for the first few weeks, it is then the staple for the first few weeks, and their diet must be beefed up as you have recommended in this last post. Our chameleons eat small crickets from their first day. That may not work for some, but they are "cricket sized" out of the egg for 4-6 day old crickets, depending on the temps that the crickets are raised under. At least now people can look at the fruit fly recipe. I have not used fruit flies in years, although I have worked with all of the chemicals and ingredients you mention, and many more, especially with propagating hornworms. That diet seems short on protein and amino acids. My experience is that fish-flakes and fresh green vegetables work much better providing you have an insect that can deliver them.
I started off my first post here by saying that fruit flies were a poor staple. That was not in criticism of anyone. No one had mentioned it as an exclusive diet for young chams at that point, and I didn't want to give anyone the impression that it was a good idea. Only this very last post of yours says its OK until the chams are "cricket sized", but not as a staple. That is a contradiction of sorts at this point, because if its all their eating, its staple. Who is "reading to fast"?
I give my opinion on gutload and staple diets. You post a disagreement and say its not sufficient, but do not explain. Am I wrong to ask for an explanation?
If you choose to feed your chameleon fruit flies for the first few weeks, it is then the staple for the first few weeks, and their diet must be beefed up as you have recommended in this last post. Our chameleons eat small crickets from their first day. That may not work for some, but they are "cricket sized" out of the egg for 4-6 day old crickets, depending on the temps that the crickets are raised under. At least now people can look at the fruit fly recipe. I have not used fruit flies in years, although I have worked with all of the chemicals and ingredients you mention, and many more, especially with propagating hornworms. That diet seems short on protein and amino acids. My experience is that fish-flakes and fresh green vegetables work much better providing you have an insect that can deliver them.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
Sorry Jim, I didn't think I needed to explain why I felt fish flakes were a poor gutload when I gave the link the the article written on proper gutloads for chameleons.
Most types of Fruit flies are high in protein at birth but the protein diminishes as they age:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6667728&dopt=Abstract
I have not reasearched the actual aminio acid content in fruit flies but baby bereal is high in amino acids.
Most types of Fruit flies are high in protein at birth but the protein diminishes as they age:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6667728&dopt=Abstract
I have not reasearched the actual aminio acid content in fruit flies but baby bereal is high in amino acids.
Chameleon Company
New member
Wendy,
As I have mentioned to you in the past, I try to put out information that I have tested at length, and only make conclusive statements when I have a body of experience relative to that specific topic. The article you cited contians a lot of good enecdotal information, but very few conclusive statements for the reader to follow. Too much of anything, even the "good things" can be harmful. That does not mean it is to be avoided. In the article, Jason backs away from the conclusions that you drew from the article, as I believe he knows that the information is not there to draw that conclusion.
Also, baby rice cereal is a poor source of protein and amino acids, which are virtually the same thing. The fruit fly recipe which you posted, while high in starches and carbo's, is weak in protein. As I said in my first post here, fruit flies are fine as a "treat" but are not recomended to be relied on as a staple, for reasons I have sited. The starter of this thread had no issue one way or the other about staple vs treat, it was only something I brought to the thread as I thought there room for it in the discussion. Its one thing to make a recommendation, and support for the recommendations is always a good idea. Its another to criticize that of another without having the goods.
As I have mentioned to you in the past, I try to put out information that I have tested at length, and only make conclusive statements when I have a body of experience relative to that specific topic. The article you cited contians a lot of good enecdotal information, but very few conclusive statements for the reader to follow. Too much of anything, even the "good things" can be harmful. That does not mean it is to be avoided. In the article, Jason backs away from the conclusions that you drew from the article, as I believe he knows that the information is not there to draw that conclusion.
Also, baby rice cereal is a poor source of protein and amino acids, which are virtually the same thing. The fruit fly recipe which you posted, while high in starches and carbo's, is weak in protein. As I said in my first post here, fruit flies are fine as a "treat" but are not recomended to be relied on as a staple, for reasons I have sited. The starter of this thread had no issue one way or the other about staple vs treat, it was only something I brought to the thread as I thought there room for it in the discussion. Its one thing to make a recommendation, and support for the recommendations is always a good idea. Its another to criticize that of another without having the goods.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
I have never critized you, I have though used different gutloads over the last 4 years and saw a significant improvement in color and weight gain in my reptiles when using a quality gutload, I personally use Progeckos Gutload and my breeding leos gained back all of their pre breeding weight while still laying eggs and their color was vastly improved within a few weeks of changing my gutload.
My veileds color was also improved and there was weight gain as well even in my adults.
My veileds color was also improved and there was weight gain as well even in my adults.
JasonDescamps
New member
Well, I swore I was done with forums but I feel I need to drop my 3/4 a cent of input on this one.
The article I wrote on gutloading basics was just that, an article on basics. As Jim alluded to, there is very little published data available on any chameleons nutritional needs let alone what one should use in gutloading. My intent in the article was not to direct someone to one thing or another but to make them aware that there are things that should be considered in making your decision. There are many options out there for gutloading and many of them work with great success, it is up to the individual as to what they would use.
The article I wrote on gutloading basics was just that, an article on basics. As Jim alluded to, there is very little published data available on any chameleons nutritional needs let alone what one should use in gutloading. My intent in the article was not to direct someone to one thing or another but to make them aware that there are things that should be considered in making your decision. There are many options out there for gutloading and many of them work with great success, it is up to the individual as to what they would use.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
Jason that was bascially my point, there are many options out there and one has to choose.
I personally and based on trying different gutloads over the last 4 years just do not think fish flakes and carrots make for a good gutload. If others have good luck with that gutload, great, but readers need to know that there is more out there than that.
I personally and based on trying different gutloads over the last 4 years just do not think fish flakes and carrots make for a good gutload. If others have good luck with that gutload, great, but readers need to know that there is more out there than that.
Chameleon Company
New member
Well said Jason.
And I also thought the article was well written, and conveyed exactly the caution that you wanted it to. We all know that it is surprising how for all the discussion on it, there are very few definitive plans on "this is exactly how you should supplement", etc., as the many variables involved are still quite variable!
Wendy says:
Compare the bold above to the actual statement made earlier:
Wendy, it was not that you criticized it, which you did (check the dictionary). That is fine, and critical analysis of the options here are good. But you provided no analysis. When I pointed out to you that that was a rather poor way to claim fault in something, without explaining, you then provided that above "I didn't think I needed to explain .....", referencing the link to Jason's article. We now have Jason explaining his article, which again is very well written, and he draws a more restrained conclusion than do you, and you seemed to be hoping to quote him. I am sure that Jason and I and others could write pages on the subject, explaining more scenarios and the cautions inherent with each, but to be truly thorough would take more time than I doubt he currently has, and know that I don't. We are still experimenting with the "delivery" of supplements here, and always will be, as well as looking for better supplements, etc.
It was "fish-flakes and green vegetables" BTW, not "fish flakes and carrots".
I am all for people knowing all they can of gutloads, and leaving as little to assumption as possible. That is why I expect disagreements here to carry an explanation, especially by the new moderator (congrats by the way
), so that the reader can digest some of the logic process behind it, and be able to "choose".
To go a little further, as I asked for it. Too many fish flakes is not good. It is over-kill. My best "easy" recommendation is an inexpensive wheat-based cricket food (such as made by FRM, 50 lb $10-12) for your regular daily "non-gutload" cricket food, for all size crickets. Fresh vegetables (or see Jason's article) for moisture. Then, in the 24 hours prior to the crickets being offered as food, add fish flakes only to those crickets separated out for feeding, and use a green vegatable for added moisture and nutrition.
The best vitamin product ever made in my view was liquid Reptisol by Tetra. No longer made, so I can't recommend it. Certain essential vitamins, particularly real Vitamin A (palmitate) are fat-soluble, and not available in a powder (some new stuff coming out of China, but the jury is out). Usually using a touch of glycerin as a solvent, the trace amounts of the fat-soluble vitamins needed can be made to dissolve in a water solution. Chameleons react very poorly to anything oily put in their mouths, such that 3-4 drops of anything oil in their mouth can have fatal results (gagging, regurgitation, inhalation and suffocation), but they will swallow water solutions. If you must apply an oil-based vitamin, just moisten a Q-tip with it, and touch their tongue. They usually only require trace amounts of the oil-based vitamins anyway.
To those who PM'd me asking me to hang around, I thank you for your urging, but like Jason, I want to swear off all of this stuff. Whether it be this forum or others in the site, the sniping requires so much more explanation and writing than many of us who try to come here with information have the time or patience for. What I need to be focusing on is tripling the content of my website. Thanks again.
And I also thought the article was well written, and conveyed exactly the caution that you wanted it to. We all know that it is surprising how for all the discussion on it, there are very few definitive plans on "this is exactly how you should supplement", etc., as the many variables involved are still quite variable!
Wendy says:
Compare the bold above to the actual statement made earlier:
Wendy, it was not that you criticized it, which you did (check the dictionary). That is fine, and critical analysis of the options here are good. But you provided no analysis. When I pointed out to you that that was a rather poor way to claim fault in something, without explaining, you then provided that above "I didn't think I needed to explain .....", referencing the link to Jason's article. We now have Jason explaining his article, which again is very well written, and he draws a more restrained conclusion than do you, and you seemed to be hoping to quote him. I am sure that Jason and I and others could write pages on the subject, explaining more scenarios and the cautions inherent with each, but to be truly thorough would take more time than I doubt he currently has, and know that I don't. We are still experimenting with the "delivery" of supplements here, and always will be, as well as looking for better supplements, etc.
It was "fish-flakes and green vegetables" BTW, not "fish flakes and carrots".
I am all for people knowing all they can of gutloads, and leaving as little to assumption as possible. That is why I expect disagreements here to carry an explanation, especially by the new moderator (congrats by the way
), so that the reader can digest some of the logic process behind it, and be able to "choose". To go a little further, as I asked for it. Too many fish flakes is not good. It is over-kill. My best "easy" recommendation is an inexpensive wheat-based cricket food (such as made by FRM, 50 lb $10-12) for your regular daily "non-gutload" cricket food, for all size crickets. Fresh vegetables (or see Jason's article) for moisture. Then, in the 24 hours prior to the crickets being offered as food, add fish flakes only to those crickets separated out for feeding, and use a green vegatable for added moisture and nutrition.
The best vitamin product ever made in my view was liquid Reptisol by Tetra. No longer made, so I can't recommend it. Certain essential vitamins, particularly real Vitamin A (palmitate) are fat-soluble, and not available in a powder (some new stuff coming out of China, but the jury is out). Usually using a touch of glycerin as a solvent, the trace amounts of the fat-soluble vitamins needed can be made to dissolve in a water solution. Chameleons react very poorly to anything oily put in their mouths, such that 3-4 drops of anything oil in their mouth can have fatal results (gagging, regurgitation, inhalation and suffocation), but they will swallow water solutions. If you must apply an oil-based vitamin, just moisten a Q-tip with it, and touch their tongue. They usually only require trace amounts of the oil-based vitamins anyway.
To those who PM'd me asking me to hang around, I thank you for your urging, but like Jason, I want to swear off all of this stuff. Whether it be this forum or others in the site, the sniping requires so much more explanation and writing than many of us who try to come here with information have the time or patience for. What I need to be focusing on is tripling the content of my website. Thanks again.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
Jim, the thing is and Ill just go ahead and say it here instead of replying to your PM.
The way I see it is that you don't have to be rude and condesending to me or anyone else to give your advise based on your experience. You also could take a chapter in learning how to take the opinions others have based on their experience.
You also are not all knowing, although I know you know a great deal about chameleons, your way is not the only way. You nor anyone else is the all knowing of chameleons.
You do not need to attempt to tear people down and try to put off that air about you that makes everyone think that you think you are better than the rest of the people here.
And Ill about bet that for every PM you got asking you to stay, I got 3 asking why I had not done or said something sooner about your post and the way you talk down to other people here.
Take it with a grain of salt for all I care, you can act and talk to people anyway you want but as I told you almost 2 months ago, this attitude of yours will come of no good to you.
And if you think I criticized some of your post, Im sorry but all you have done is critcize me and other posters for their opinions.
Your advise is needed, welcome and wanted. I just don't see why you can;t find a nice way of posting your thoughts.
The way I see it is that you don't have to be rude and condesending to me or anyone else to give your advise based on your experience. You also could take a chapter in learning how to take the opinions others have based on their experience.
You also are not all knowing, although I know you know a great deal about chameleons, your way is not the only way. You nor anyone else is the all knowing of chameleons.
You do not need to attempt to tear people down and try to put off that air about you that makes everyone think that you think you are better than the rest of the people here.
And Ill about bet that for every PM you got asking you to stay, I got 3 asking why I had not done or said something sooner about your post and the way you talk down to other people here.
Take it with a grain of salt for all I care, you can act and talk to people anyway you want but as I told you almost 2 months ago, this attitude of yours will come of no good to you.
And if you think I criticized some of your post, Im sorry but all you have done is critcize me and other posters for their opinions.
Your advise is needed, welcome and wanted. I just don't see why you can;t find a nice way of posting your thoughts.
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Chameleon Company
New member
Wendy,
It was clear from your posts that there was a heck of a lot more going on than you were saying. You have made that all quite clear now. Your reference to something said "two months ago" is extraordinarily out of place, and from a completely different thread in another forum where you were a late-comer and had not done your reading. It is far-fetched as to being BS, and yet you pull it to this thread. What's next? I do not think I am alone in expecting disagreement to include an explanation of "why?". It was never your opinion about what you think is right, or works well. It was your criticism without explanation, or in the case of Jason's article, citing phantom information that the author even came forward to say was not represented as such in his article. I have no clue what set you off on these tangents of the last 24 hours. Seems it goes elsewhere to things besides these threads. I wish you well Wendy, but if I go by your PM of two days ago, if every time you have a bad day it has to spill out here ...... such is life I guess. And people wonder why folks swear off forums?
It was clear from your posts that there was a heck of a lot more going on than you were saying. You have made that all quite clear now. Your reference to something said "two months ago" is extraordinarily out of place, and from a completely different thread in another forum where you were a late-comer and had not done your reading. It is far-fetched as to being BS, and yet you pull it to this thread. What's next? I do not think I am alone in expecting disagreement to include an explanation of "why?". It was never your opinion about what you think is right, or works well. It was your criticism without explanation, or in the case of Jason's article, citing phantom information that the author even came forward to say was not represented as such in his article. I have no clue what set you off on these tangents of the last 24 hours. Seems it goes elsewhere to things besides these threads. I wish you well Wendy, but if I go by your PM of two days ago, if every time you have a bad day it has to spill out here ...... such is life I guess. And people wonder why folks swear off forums?
dragonflyreptiles
New member
The only thing "more" going on is the way you attemt to get your point across which males aht I said almost 2 months ago not out of place, it was not about a thread but about your attitude in your postings period. I explained to you later that I had done some reading and I that I somewhat understood. But that if you continued on that path of style of posting it would come of no good.
But that attitude is not a good way to get information across to people.
And yes I had a bad day a couple of days ago, that is why I did not make my replies until later.
Jim I hope to see you here on the forum and if the only way you can express your thoughts has that attitude and tone added to it, so be it. I prefer to try to be nice to people myself.
But that attitude is not a good way to get information across to people.
And yes I had a bad day a couple of days ago, that is why I did not make my replies until later.
Jim I hope to see you here on the forum and if the only way you can express your thoughts has that attitude and tone added to it, so be it. I prefer to try to be nice to people myself.
Chameleon Company
New member
Wendy,
I am going to go on the assumption that you care about the dessimination of information on chameleons. You say so in your "new moderator" post. You have invited opinions specific to certain husbandry concerns. In this thread and others, several posted opinions. We all will judge the credence we give to those opinions for a variety of reasons. You made a choice to be critical of the opinions of others without citing the basis for your disagreement, except to have an opinion. Many novices in the hobby read here, and will make novice decisions based on the experience of others, as they have very little experience yet themselves. If you do not want to acknowledge what I feel is a fundamental obligation to explain the basis for your criticisms, then let that be your disregard for the novices who come to your moderated forum to get info. You attempted to hide behind Jason's article, and God bless him for coming here and clarifying his words there. His article was written to help people form a better basis of knowledge with which to make complicated husbandry decisions.
Now you want to stretch it so far off topic as to be pathetic. I guess you cannot keep it to the topic of this forum, much less this thread, which I believe was fruit flies and gutload. Your opinion here, specifically to disagree with one I put up, was challenged, asking you to provide the basis for your conclusion. You were unable to, and instead chose to make a broad personal attack, trying to bring in all but the kitchen sink. Sit in judgement all that you care to of other threads and the motivations of posters in them. If you think it has a place here, I am sure you will do it again. For lack of a better way to put it, considering how you defined this forum in your self-introduction, your handling of it is not inspiring to those who will still come here seeking knowledge.
As for the other thread months ago, I was polite to you then. Your criticisms then, which are not as you now state them, BTW, came in the form of a couple of posts that were off topic, where you had not been a part of the issue, and had not done your homework. You did eventually say that you understood my view, once you became a little more informed. I do not write to please you or any other, Wendy. If you want to resurrect whatever still bothers you about that thread, then do it there, as it is at least in context there. To bring it here, all twisted and spun, ........ well, the viewing audience will draw their opinions.
I am going to go on the assumption that you care about the dessimination of information on chameleons. You say so in your "new moderator" post. You have invited opinions specific to certain husbandry concerns. In this thread and others, several posted opinions. We all will judge the credence we give to those opinions for a variety of reasons. You made a choice to be critical of the opinions of others without citing the basis for your disagreement, except to have an opinion. Many novices in the hobby read here, and will make novice decisions based on the experience of others, as they have very little experience yet themselves. If you do not want to acknowledge what I feel is a fundamental obligation to explain the basis for your criticisms, then let that be your disregard for the novices who come to your moderated forum to get info. You attempted to hide behind Jason's article, and God bless him for coming here and clarifying his words there. His article was written to help people form a better basis of knowledge with which to make complicated husbandry decisions.
Now you want to stretch it so far off topic as to be pathetic. I guess you cannot keep it to the topic of this forum, much less this thread, which I believe was fruit flies and gutload. Your opinion here, specifically to disagree with one I put up, was challenged, asking you to provide the basis for your conclusion. You were unable to, and instead chose to make a broad personal attack, trying to bring in all but the kitchen sink. Sit in judgement all that you care to of other threads and the motivations of posters in them. If you think it has a place here, I am sure you will do it again. For lack of a better way to put it, considering how you defined this forum in your self-introduction, your handling of it is not inspiring to those who will still come here seeking knowledge.
As for the other thread months ago, I was polite to you then. Your criticisms then, which are not as you now state them, BTW, came in the form of a couple of posts that were off topic, where you had not been a part of the issue, and had not done your homework. You did eventually say that you understood my view, once you became a little more informed. I do not write to please you or any other, Wendy. If you want to resurrect whatever still bothers you about that thread, then do it there, as it is at least in context there. To bring it here, all twisted and spun, ........ well, the viewing audience will draw their opinions.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
Jim I will not debate this with you here, take it to HELL if you like. I have had a problem with how to talk "at" and "down" and not to people within your post. There is no specific thread, your attitude was mentioned by other members to me whom I had bragged about you to. I then looked at a few post, did see your point in a lot of threads but did NOT like the attitude and tone and I told you.
This thread will now be LOCKED since it is no longer about fruit flies but about how I feel your advise and tips would be better taken if posted in a non condesending way.
This thread will now be LOCKED since it is no longer about fruit flies but about how I feel your advise and tips would be better taken if posted in a non condesending way.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
After talking to Jim we both agreed this thread should remain open since there is some good information here and more to be shared still.