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Bad Guy Brian Rogers (bayedncaught)

R

rattyrugrats

New member
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
155
Reaction score
2
Points
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Location
New Mexico
I arranged a breeding contract with Brian Rogers and sent him my albino male on June 7, 2011 to breed with three of his females. At first, he kept in contact fairly regularly but he became harder and harder to contact. He said that he was having phone problems and ended up having to go to the hospital for heart failure. I told him I understood but to please keep in touch with me any way that he could (he has my phone number, email, and fauna account info). I texted him for an update a couple weeks later but didn't get a reply. I tried calling but now get a message saying that the number I'm trying to call is "not reachable" (not sure what that means). So then I tried his fauna account and he replied that two of the females are pregnant and he is currently with an albino female. A couple days later I messaged him again but got no reply. I then messaged him on the 8th and he hasn't been on since the 6th. I emailed him yesterday but so far nothing. I also called his work today but was told that he no longer works there. I really want my boa back. Can anyone help me with this? I really just want my guy back. Thanks for reading and I can post more proof if needed.

Here's the contract:

Boa Breeding Contract

I Brian Rogers hereby agree to split the profits of breedings by Jessica Miller’s albino male boa and three 100% hetero albino females that I (Brian Rogers) currently own. I shall be housing and selling the baby boas and will send the profits for 25% of the albino offspring and 50% of the hetero albino offspring to Jessica Miller. If, for some reason, the breeding does not go as planned, we will discuss possible other options which may result in a cancellation of breeding plans and each paying for the shipping of the albino male boa to Brian Rogers’ place of business at 3887 state road 43 Richmond oh 43944. and back to the home of Jessica Miller.

Mr. Roger’s Signature: brian rogers

Mr. Roger’s DL #: vt 42560367 x

Mr. Roger’s DOB: 09/18/1982 x

Date: 06/06/2011 2:00 am x



Ms. Miller’s Signature: Jessica Miller x

Date: 6/7/2011 8:40 am x


Here's the last message I got from him:

08-27-2011, 05:13 PM
bayedncaught
Registered User


Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Richmond OHIO
Posts: 35
Name : Brian Rogers

Trader Rating: (0) Re: Boa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i have 15 snakes 4 adult boa females ur male has b een hooked with the albino for 2 weeks now so that should be a great breeding aswell i have ball pythons and boas


Here's my last fauna message to him (the email I sent yesterday is pretty much the same):

09-07-2011, 11:34 AM
rattyrugrats
Registered User



Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 104
Name : Jessica Miller

Trader Rating: (0) Re: Boa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm getting a little concerned because it seems to be getting harder to get in contact with you. I understand that things come up sometimes, but I would still like for you to let me know what's going on. Please get back to me and let me know what's going on and if I can expect to get my guy back soon (I understand if he's still busy, but things seem to have been moving pretty fast since he started). I look forward to hearing from you.

Jessica
 
Maybe it's me - admittedly, I tend to be a bit of a stickler - but if the agreement was to breed him to 3 het albino females, WHY was your male in with an albino female? Was this agreed upon in advance? Or was he simply trying to take advantage of the situation? Having the male in with different (undiscussed) females is certainly a good reason for the breedings to not go as planned.
 
One of the planned females ended up already being pregnant so it was only going to be two females, in which I would get half of the overall profits. However, he did mention that he might get a breedable albino female to replace her.
 
Some questions for you...

1. How well did you know Brian Rogers before setting up the breeding loan?
2. How did you meet him and how did such an arrangement come about?
3. Did you have a pre-set date for him to ship the boa back to you?
4. Other than the difficulties in communication and the VERY wishy-washy contract and subsequent decisions...has there been any indications that he intends to rip you off?

I realize you did not bring up the contract itself as a concern....but I'll tell you, as contracts go, it's pretty bad...then arbitrarily making new decisions about what will be bred...etc... None of that, in and of itself, means anyone is a bad guy. Most likely just points to a great deal of inexperience with breeding loans and contracts. But there's little-to-nothing actually IN that "contract" that protects you.

Lack of communication also isn't an absolute indicator of a deal gone bad. We don't know he's not just a disorganized procrastinator with all the best intentions. Unless there is more to this than you've explained so far.

I'm not saying these aren't causes for concern....just that at this point, all you've done is shown that you have something to be concerned about. You have NOT proven that this guy is a bad guy. Hopefully with more info, the BOI can be more helpful.
 
I hope that he ends up being trustworthy for you.
All the breeder loans gone wrong.......It's why I will NEVER do one unless I know the other person very well, and it would HAVE to be within driving distance for me, in case I would have to go and collect my snake.
 
1. I didn't know him but he was very responsive when he approached me about the breeding loan and I did an inquiry on him and didn't receive any negative feedback.
2. I posted an advertisement that I had an albino male that I was willing to breed with someone nearby. He lives in Ohio, which isn't nearby, but said that he was willing to work with me.
3. We didn't have a specific day for him to send him back as I didn't want to pick a day and then end up having him be "busy" at that time. However, he did say that it would probably be 2-3 months.
4. There haven't been other signs that he intends to rip me off, but the decreasing ways in which to contact him (phone is now out along with his work phone) and the diminishing amount of communication (which seems to have now stopped) I am very worried that he was just looking to get a free snake...

Unfortunately, the red flags didn't start popping up until after I shipped (or maybe I just didn't see them :-( ). Therefore, I thought that keeping an open line of communication was my best plan. Now without at least the communication to ground the situation, I'm just hoping someone can help me out with a way to get my boa back...
 
It's usually AFTER the shipping or changing of hands of the animal, that the red lights start going off. Been there, done that. Never again unless it's someone who I really trust.
 
rattyrugrats said:
Therefore, I thought that keeping an open line of communication was my best plan. Now without at least the communication to ground the situation, I'm just hoping someone can help me out with a way to get my boa back...
Click to expand...

Have you informed him that this thread has been created about him? A BOI thread will very often goose someone into taking proper action.

Right off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen reasons why communications have slowed and apparently stopped...most of them are benign reasons. So maybe he just needs a good goosing to jump start the communication again and to get this issue resolved to your satisfaction.

Let him know this thread is here...and let's see what he has to say.
 
I have family somewhere in New Mexico, but I haven't talked to them in years, so I don't know where they are. :( And I don't have any friends out that way.......If I knew anyone who could help you I would do it. :(

I hope someone's able to help you. :(
 
Look what was recently written on his profile message:

"Brian- I've sold the boas. Please stop wasting peoples time leading them on that you are going to buy something. You said you were sending payments and paperwork in the mail for weeks and kept it going for a couple months. I received nothing in the mail and have never had a problem recieving things in the mail so I am doubtful that you sent anything. I sent you a contract for the snakes with personal info, i.e. phone number, address, etc. and you stopped all contact with me even though I see you were on here today. Very shady in my opinion. Please beware doing business with bayedncaught"

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?u=66966

Sounds like you are not the only one having problems with him right now. I did a BOI search on him (just looked at two posts) and found he has a good rating when purchasing, but IMO, that is not the same as a good rating when selling. I wish you the best of luck and thanks for making people aware of this guy.
 
rattyrugrats said:
One of the planned females ended up already being pregnant so it was only going to be two females, in which I would get half of the overall profits. However, he did mention that he might get a breedable albino female to replace her.
Click to expand...

Ooh, he got a *new* female and put your boy in with her, within a 3 month time frame? Depending on when he got the new gal, that could be fairly questionable quarrantine, I hope that doesn't cause problems.
 
It sucks that your boa is with someone else and you can't contact him, but I have another issue here. What were you doing trying to breed a male boa to three females. That's extremely dangerous for a boa, even if he breeds each female fairly quickly. Boas are not ball pythons and having a male try for that much of a workload is just asking for trouble.

Chris Canada-Smith
 
I've emailed him to inform him of this thread. I've also never bred before so I didn't realize that attempting to breed him to multiple females could be dangerous. I've only researched the basics of boa breeding because I haven't attempted to breed yet as I don't have a breedable female. Brian said that he has bred quite a bit so I was trusting his judgment. I'm really hoping that he gets back to me and I can at least get my boa back.
 
That is a free site which appears to have been started in 2006. The single post to the forum was made in May 2007. I don't know if freewebs does any purging of unused/abandoned sites; but I wouldn't expect them to be taken down as readily as sites with paid domains and hosting.
 
rattyrugrats said:
Bad news... I was trying to look up more info on him and I found this:

http://www.freewebs.com/bayedncaughtscatahoulas/contactme.htm

:-( Can anyone help me with how to possibly get my boa back?
Click to expand...

I don't see any "bad news" in that. It's not uncommon for folks to have multiple e-mails for a variety of reasons, either.

As for getting your boa back....here is what I would do:

Using EVERY method I had for reaching him -- e-mail (including the one you just found which may or may not still be active)...PMs here at fauna...phone...and any other contact points you may have....

Send the same message to each along the lines of, "I have been trying very hard to reach you regarding your possession of my albino boa constrictor you took on a breeding loan. Please contact me immediately at _________ so we can make the arrangements for the return of my snake. If I do not hear from you within _____ days (set a reasonable number of days for him to get the message), I will be calling the police in _______ (his city of residence) and having them look into the matter."

Giving him a VERY specific deadline to return your call will help prevent him from procrastinating any further....and the threat of police involvement is usually a pretty good spark under anyone's butt.
 
I didn't get it at first, either....but I think the "bad news" was the Florida address on the website...but again, it was posted in 2006. Could have moved....or maybe he does live in FL, which wouldn't be bode well for this situation.
 
hhmoore said:
I didn't get it at first, either....but I think the "bad news" was the Florida address on the website...but again, it was posted in 2006. Could have moved....or maybe he does live in FL, which wouldn't be bode well for this situation.
Click to expand...

I can see how that might be a flag...just not something I'd notice right off, seeing as how I live in a different state on average every 16 months or so. :rolleyes:

Given how old the site is, hopefully that doesn't play into this at all. She should have a physical address that the snake was shipped to, right?
 
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