Brian Smith-Inquiry

[Josh Burm Guy]

Brian,
You speak so generally here about this issue. I would never go so far as to say that "most people" this, or "most people" that. Besides, I am not you and you are not me. But judging by this post and your other post it seems like you want DESPERATELY for me to be just like you in this respect. Well I'm not. I really actually do not care what these specific people (the troublemakers that say bad things about me) think about me. What you're having a hard time doing here is differentiating between different circumstances and factors. I care very much what my inlaws, friends and loved ones think of me. But not what some hostile stranger in Colorado or Wisconson thinks of me. That's the difference and that's what you're missing here. You can't compare how I feel about some shmoe in New York with a bonifide customer that I am dealing with in real life. They are not the same and can never have the same priority or importance. All genre's of people do not all fall into the same catergory. Not for anybody. So, when I say that I don't care what anyone here thinks of me, I mean it, and I am referring to the people that only want to do me harm. Can you see the difference now? Sorry I didn't make that clear before.

Damon,
I think you will find that most people do care what others think of them. It is most certainly not a sign of insecurity, I think it is a positive sign of self respect. I would be rather bothered if nobody liked me. Not to get all "mushy", but come one Damon, we all need people in one way or another. We all look for approval to some degree from people in our life.
You look for approval by producing high quality snakes. Please do not tell me you only do it for yourself. If that were the case you would not sell a single animal. You want poeple to say they got a great snake at a great price from you. We all do. Not to start another debate, but we all do it for the money to some degree. Yes, we all got into this for the love of snakes........I have never met someone deathly afraid of snakes/discusted by snakes, who handled them and worked with them every day. At some point we decided to produce them. We did not produce them just to say they did it. If that were the case we would have done it once and left it at that. Point is, we look for approval, we look for people to like us, respect us (in most cases), think highly of what we achieve/d.

 

[Brian Oakley]

I understand what you are saying and DO see your point. I still say if this didn;t bother you ar you "don't care" you would not speak as passionately about all this as you have bee the last few pages vs. the beginning of this mess. By the way, that is a compliment, not a point made to argue.

After all that has been said, by me and by others, I do hope things take a turn for the better for you. Let the past be the past, look towards the future and stay possitve, stay honest , and stay focussed. I am not preaching, like I told you in my emails I know you are a big boy, but I say it yet again believing it will make a difference for you.

 

[Josh Burm Guy]

Thanks Brian, but again you are kind of confusing different aspects of the situation with others. The lies about me being a thief bothered me tremendously. As did any other lies. That was what I spoke against "so passionately". And not for fear of losing any business. I honestly don't care HALF as much about losing any money or business as I do about a friend of mine seeing the lies and perhaps believing them. Like say a friend I may have just met, that really doesn't know me too well. And then I may lose a friend as a result. That to me is much more valuable than any amount of sales or business. If I had to choose between having money and having even one good friend, I'd be a poor guy with a single friend.

And I don't understand why you say that you "hope things take a turn for the better" for me. Things have always been good for me and have never taken a downward turn. Are you referring to the things I shared with you in our private emails? If so that was a very long time ago and has been a "thing of the past" for a very very long time. My life has been very good for nearly a decade now. Not trying to be vain, but I have a life that most would envy. I don't have to work and I have everything that I want or desire. So yes, if this can improve any,.. then I'm all for it too.

Thanks again for all the words of support irregardless. I think you're an alright guy. Good luck on your breeding.

 

[Brian Oakley]

Damon,
you are reading too deep into things. I said I understand what you were saying and understand the diff. you were referring to. I said hope things get better as a general statement.....be it breeding, drama, luck, money, whatever. we can all use "better" in our lives. I know the timeline you refer to in our emails, wasn't confusing things there. I guess my point was.......ALL this can be a thing of the past and I hope things get better. If I am wrong and things are perfect, then so be it. Just thought it was a nice gesture. I figured you had better things to do besides sit here all day, night, whatever and read/respond to everything.
Just take it for what it's worth and if it applies great, if not, that is fine too.

 

[Josh Burm Guy]

Okay, my bad. I hope things get better for you too then.

I don't mind being here and sharing thoughts. I really don't like tv much and until I get reinstated at kingsnake it gives me a place to post.

Take care.

Damon,
you are reading too deep into things. I said I understand what you were saying and understand the diff. you were referring to. I said hope things get better as a general statement.....be it breeding, drama, luck, money, whatever. we can all use "better" in our lives. I know the timeline you refer to in our emails, wasn't confusing things there. I guess my point was.......ALL this can be a thing of the past and I hope things get better. If I am wrong and things are perfect, then so be it. Just thought it was a nice gesture. I figured you had better things to do besides sit here all day, night, whatever and read/respond to everything.
Just take it for what it's worth and if it applies great, if not, that is fine too.

 

[NeoScales]

Seems like a staggering overstatement

Let me preface this with the following – I always hold near to me the idea of people making honest and faithful personal progress in their lives. Damon/Brian/Josh is no exception and I think everyone connected to him is best served when he is a happy man. But truly happy people (to a degree others should envy) don't behave in the manner on display since I've known him (IMO).

This is where I start having questions about the level of honesty that is set forth when he portrays himself here or elsewhere this has come up. As I still believe most of what he says is deeply egotistically driven and just repeated more times than anyone could reasonably reply to.

My life has been very good for nearly a decade now. Not trying to be vain, but I have a life that most would envy.

Since when does being drug addicted, alcoholic, dishonest, vulgar, threatening, gun waiving person who manipulates people equate to enviable happiness?

Certainly I wish Damon the best of luck on producing snakes, since it appears to be what he deeply wants. I don’t believe he’s a “bad guy” per se and he has been accused of things he didn't do; but I think a healthy measure caution and skepticism is in order with him (a 113 page thread should illustrate that to keen observers). To my mind only time and good experiences with Damon, not infinite refutation, will change that with open minded readers of the BOI.

I'm not interested in a protracted argument here, unless something specific that I've written above is refuted. Then I'll answer that specific charge with what information I used to form the conclusion.....though that would seem unnecessary I think.

Randy May

 

[Josh Burm Guy]

Re: Seems like a staggering overstatement

First of all Randy let me begin by stating for the record that I really do not like you. And I feel it is a safe bet to feel that I will never like you. Almost everything I read from you in the bc forum is always some form of a dig or a degradation or a criticism of another person. To me this seems like evidence of an unhappy person. So it's pretty ironic for you to come on here and insinuate that I am somehow unhappy or delusional in my belief that my life is great. But don't think that because I don't like you that I am disagreeing with you only because of this. The two things have nothing to do with one another.

You insinuate here that I was a drug addict. I quit doing drugs in 1990 over 13 years ago. How in the hell does that come into play into my life now or in the last decade? Sure my life and my priorities were screwed up then, but that has no bearing on my life now or my life during the stated "last decade".

You say I am a "gun waving" person? It sounds like you have heard the same bullsh!t that others have been told. Slackass also was starting a rumor in this thread that I "kidnapped" a person, and held them at gunpoint. This and what you just said are utterly absurd. And judging by what slackass said and the email he wrote to a friend of mine I conclude that he is referring to Rebecca. Now,.. I don't know if she actually told him that I did those things or if he was just making it up to further make me look bad, but it isn't true. I can't imagine why Becky would tell anyone that, but he seemed so adamant about it I had to wonder. But nothing like that EVER happened. I always treated Becky with respect and I can't remember ever having an argument or so much as a heated discussion with her. When she told me she wanted to move I agreed with her that the arrangement was not working and I even helped her to pack and move when her friend got here. Then we took some pictures with some of my reptile pets and she left. Her and I remained friends for a couple of months after she left until I saw that she was close friends with you jerks in the bc forum and I felt I could no longer trust her. And the fact that she is not coming forward here to say that I never kidnapped her and held her at gunpoint kind of verifies my doubts. By her allowing this lie to be told it is as bad as her saying it herself on here. Thanks a lot Becky. What the @#&@ did I ever do to you other than to try to give you an oportunity to be a part of my reptile business.

As to my drinking Randy, sure I drank a lot. But it was really just immature party attitude on my part. It never became any angry issue until what you jerks in the bc forum did to me came up. Then it did intensify my anger. Yes, that is true. It got very bad and that's all you and the others saw and know. But that does NOT mean that I was a raving lunatic my entire life drunk off my gourd. There's a lot more to me and my life than a few drunk and angry nights online. You have to realize that. Yet you sum me and my entire existance as, "Oh, he is a drunk angry man that threatens people and waves guns in their faces". What the heck man? Furthermore, I quit drinking solely because of that whole mess and the personal shame I felt for losing control like I did. That was in October of 2002. Doesn't that strength and resolve say anything about me and my character? No, I'm just a drunk angry drug addict waving guns around. Right?

And yes, a lot of what I say and do IS ego based and ego driven. For a reason Randy. I came from a really screwed up and abusive dysfunctional and broken family. I quit school when I was about 14 and left that awful home when I was about 15. I had had no real role models to speak of. All I had to draw upon for reference on how to treat the world was experiences with an abusive, psychotic single parent that beat me and my sister if we woke her up or played too loud. The only friends or acquaintences I had were equally dysfunctional delinquents from other messed up homes. We were also products of the post 60's, 70's generation that thought it was still cool to get loaded. We were all drug addicts and teenage alcoholics, but we thought we were soooo cool. Lacking any real common sense or rational guidance I made a living by dealing the drugs we all did. I got pretty good at it, but lacking any real self esteem or ambition to succeed I could never make it really excell for me and I always floated just above eeking out an existance and supporting my own drug habit/s. I never formed any real relationships, living as an emotional introvert as a result of existing in a world where I couldn't rust anyone even a parent. My only outlet was my pets. All through these years I always had my reptiles. In the early 80's I learned how to breed and dabbled in it and found that I liked it very much. I built a huge breeding colony by the mid to late 80's and reached a point where I saw that I could actually make more money that by selling cocaine. It blew my mind. So I made a conscious decision to quit the drugs and pursue a living in reptile breeding. You are probably aware from this thread and others what happened to my colonies and all that. Having very low self esteem at that time I was not only not doing as well as I could have been doing, but also the immense failure that resulted from the sicknesses in my colony was mentally devastating to me. I still plugged away though, thinking I could bounce back and never giving up completely. But what I wasn't realizing then was that I had to fix what was broken inside me before I could truly succeed in any other aspect of my life. I quit the drugs in early 1990 and was getting my colony back on its feet when the shooting accident with my best friend happened. Always trying to beat the system I tried to rearrange the scene to make it look like a suicide. In the minute or two before the police arived my mind was racing with scenarios and none of them looked good for me. I was thinking that no one anywhere would believe that this was an accident and so I decided to say that my friend had shot himself. This went over well for a short time but I had underestimated forensics which had evolved in leaps and bounds. They determined that that was not the case and so my actions had made it look even worse for me. That's why I was charged with first degree murder. I had some pretty good money and I bailed out for 50k and hired a good murder trial attorney for another 50k. I didn't jump bail and go on the run solely because of my pets. I couldn't abandon them and I wouldn't. My old drug connection in Florida even had a place set up for me in the Bahamas and a boat to get me there, but I would not leave my babies. So I went to court. Repeatedly. I finally pleaded out on what my attorney told me was a very good deal and what would result in a 3 year sentence. I took it even though everything inside me was loathe with the idea of pleading "guilty" to something that was a complete accident. When it came time for sentencing I was given 6 years, not 3. My lawyer had sold me out. He walked out of the court room and I never saw or heard from him again until a day after I got out 4 years later. While I was locked up my girlfriend left me. This was during the first month. Right after this I got word through the grapevine that she had sold my entire collection/colony to the two gay guys that had been customers of ours. There was nothing I could do. I never would have sold my snakes. I truly love my pets and would have never gotten rid of any of them under any circumstances. I have been too embarrassed thus far to admit that that had been done to me by her.

Now, after I got out of prison I went right back to my immature party oriented ways (not drugs, just drinking). This was due to two main things; One, I really still hadn't completely realized that I had incredibly low self esteem and had to develop some self worth. And two, because I was severely depressed and was undoubtedly self medicating. Then a seemingly bad thing happened that turned out to be a very good thing later. The city where I was told me I couldn't keep my alligators there. So decided to move to a more open place. I contacted an old friend who has been a real estate agent for 45 years at that point and told him I needed a place with lots of land and a decent house. I had a very limited budget to work with with what I got back from my attorney (41k). He went to work and a week or so later called me and told me he had found this place I am in now. It's on a full acre and there is only one neighbor and all the surrounding land is open. It has trees and a fenced in yard and it was PERFECT. It was also at a reduced price due to being abandoned for over a year. But this price was such that I could purchase the place for cash money and still have enough left over to demolish the two smaller houses (yes, there were three big houses on this property when I first got it), have them hauled away and to fully remodel the biggest and best house. I spent two years remodeling this place and it came out really nice. I built huge ponds for my babies under the biggest trees and built them huge yards. Everything was falling into place and now, being out of the city I was quite happy for the first time in a long time, generally speaking.

But then something even better happened. I went through a couple more years of the bar-hopping scene and the mostly lonely bachelor life. And then I met the girl that I would fall in love with, that would eventually become my wife and my entire life. This was the beginning of all that has been happening with the snakes. We had our first year of utter romance and fun and then I started really thinking about the future in serious terms for the first time in my life. Now it wasn't just me to think about, (which never really mattered before). Now it was her too. And I wanted something much better and much more "solid" for her than what I have always 'settled' for. So after considerable thought I came to the conclusion that I should invest my time, energy and money into something that I know well. Snakes. So I decided to do it again. This was in mid 2001. So I began attending some local snake shows to see what was hot and what was not. What I saw and found out about blew my mind! I was so out of touch with the reptile scene that I didn't know about any of the new morphs beyond the original albino burms. So I did a few months of research to learn what was most popular and set about obtaining my breeders. Some of the lesser breeds or morphs I was able to obtain as adults and I was able to breed these right away, but the majority of the really high end stuff could mostly only be obtained as babies or yearlings. In April of 2002 I got my first wave of many of these incredible snakes from Bob Clark. Most of them were yearlings and some of them were even several years old and ready to go right then. Many were newly hatched snakes too. All of the yearlings I got in 02 are currently gravid. Breeding has gone exceedingly well for me.

Now, the reason why I say that most of what I say and do is in fact ego based is because I have pulled myself up from very lousy beginnings and have made something of myself. I am entirely self educated and for the first time in my life I feel good about me and my self esteem is through the roof. I had drug and alcohol addictions and kicked them all. I had subconscious failure programs deeply rooted in my psyche and I have elliminated them and have replaced them with an "I can accomplish anything" attitude. Everything I set out to accomplish I accomplish and I do it well. So for this I am very proud and will always be so.

None of you guys that think you "know me" based on the few bad times we have had in forum and email really "know me". How could you? You've only seen less than 1% of my absolute worst. How could you base your overall assessment of me on just that?

Anyhow, I have laid it all out on the table here. I hope you guys don't pick it all apart and misconstrue sentences in attempts to make me look bad. I hope you can read this and maybe get a better idea of who and what I really am. I'm really just a fairly simple animal lover struggling to make a solid financial future for my girl for when I am gone. I am not "explaining" myself here, nor am I answering to anybody. I am just really sick of everything being said about me based on lies or a limited knowledge of who I really am.

Let me preface this with the following – I always hold near to me the idea of people making honest and faithful personal progress in their lives. Damon/Brian/Josh is no exception and I think everyone connected to him is best served when he is a happy man. But truly happy people (to a degree others should envy) don't behave in the manner on display since I've known him (IMO).

This is where I start having questions about the level of honesty that is set forth when he portrays himself here or elsewhere this has come up. As I still believe most of what he says is deeply egotistically driven and just repeated more times than anyone could reasonably reply to.



Since when does being drug addicted, alcoholic, dishonest, vulgar, threatening, gun waiving person who manipulates people equate to enviable happiness?

Certainly I wish Damon the best of luck on producing snakes, since it appears to be what he deeply wants. I don’t believe he’s a “bad guy” per se and he has been accused of things he didn't do; but I think a healthy measure caution and skepticism is in order with him (a 113 page thread should illustrate that to keen observers). To my mind only time and good experiences with Damon, not infinite refutation, will change that with open minded readers of the BOI.

I'm not interested in a protracted argument here, unless something specific that I've written above is refuted. Then I'll answer that specific charge with what information I used to form the conclusion.....though that would seem unnecessary I think.

Randy May

 

[Wilomn]

brain/damon/josh, didn't you REPEATEDLY state that YOU sold your collection to the two gay guys and they KNEW BECAUSE YOU TOLD THEM THE SNAKES WERE SICK?

If so then what is this?
Right after this I got word through the grapevine that she had sold my entire collection/colony to the two gay guys that had been customers of ours

That's from your last post. It seems that one statement or the other must be a lie.

Never mind, I REALLY DON'T CARE.

You have an interesting relationship with the truth.

Wes Pollock

 

[Brian Oakley]

Not that I want to see this thread go on with another 500 posts, but you bring up an interesting point, Wes. I too was always under the impression that the snakes were sold by him to people that knew they were sick.

I am not jumping Damon's $h!t here, but that is something I think allot of us missed in all this mess.

This thread is like a cross between a bad Jerry Springer show and Dr. Phil.

None the less, that was quite a story there, Damon. You shared more than I would have and still say I wish the best and hope things are better........ok remain good!

 

[NeoScales]

I am just really sick of everything being said about me based on lies or a limited knowledge of who I really am.

I would be too, but everything I wrote was based in truth and/or first hand direct accounts of your behavior over the past year or so. I get that those things aren't the entire "you" and may only be reflective of the bad things you've done. But for better or worse, that's what this thread is about...letting people tell their experiences with you, some people refuting what you assert, and the reader making up his or her own mind.

The experiences that people have are the experiences you gave them...they are your responsibility. You can't just time shift and divorce yourself from them simply because you don't think they fit the "whole you" that you believe you are. So you're correct, we don't know you...but you do know what you've chosen to show us of you.

I hope you guys don't pick it all apart and misconstrue sentences in attempts to make me look bad.

I have no interest in running you down, it's not the goal here. Giving people a fair chance to assess you is. Some people will give you a pass based on your level of forthrightness here, some won't.; both are valid choices in my opinion based on your behavior. When you start selling snakes regularly, those experiences will eclipse anything containedhere...so I hope that goes well for you and your future customers.

Randy May

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Is this thread starting to sound like a really bad episode of "As The World Turns" to anyone else?

Get a grip guys. Take this to soapopera.com and quit wasting band width on a forum that is supposed to be about reptile breeders / dealers. I thought the ongoing saga of Neil and Dave was obnoxious. This actually makes that seem interesting.

 

[Josh Burm Guy]

No offense Brian, but your memory is terrible. If you go re-read my last email to you where I was explaining it all in great detail you will see that I confided to you exactly what I wrote above. That my gf had left me and sold my snakes while I was locked up and that I was really embarrassed about it and didn't want to share that with the world. I finally decided to because I am tired of being accused of selling sick snakes.

Not that I want to see this thread go on with another 500 posts, but you bring up an interesting point, Wes. I too was always under the impression that the snakes were sold by him to people that knew they were sick.

I am not jumping Damon's $h!t here, but that is something I think allot of us missed in all this mess.

This thread is like a cross between a bad Jerry Springer show and Dr. Phil.

None the less, that was quite a story there, Damon. You shared more than I would have and still say I wish the best and hope things are better........ok remain good!

 

[Wilomn]

So brian/damon/josh, the half dozen times you ASSURED us that YOU sold the snakes to the gay guys you were LYING because you were EMBARRASSED?????

If you lie because you're embarrassed and you're embarrassed because your girlfriend dumped you and sold your snakes because you got caught being bad and sent to jail, then why, if you please, should we believe you now? Maybe all the boasting is because you're embarrassed about what you did in the past?

Do us all a favor, pick one story and stick to it for a while.

Wes Pollock

 

[Brian Oakley]

Damon,
I am sorry I have to pull out quotes, but I have to agree, things change regarding what you tell people and I do not even think you realize it.
This is an email that you sent me the couple days we were going at it in the end of Dec. '03. Please teake note to the part about 1/2 way through that says, "When I sold my remaining....."

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Brian Smith [mailto:[email protected]]

>Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:20 PM

>To: [email protected]

>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake



>Hey Brian,

> As usual you are missing many points. Not the least of which is that I
>DON'T CARE EITHER. If I did I would maybe be taking lengths to figh it. But
>I really don't care other than that lies are being told about me. I could
>care less about the name thing. But even a guy like you has to see the
>pointlessness of me going on there and saying, "I didn't burguralize
>Prehistoric Pets". It would not be accepted by anyone. That is a biased MOB
>there my friend. So for that I simply wait for Jay Brewer to post the real
>name of the guy that stole his stuff.
> As for me, I never went to jail over any theft. That's absurd. When I
>sold my remaining sick snakes it was all to a couple of guys that knew they
>were sick and were buying them CHEAP. When I got out of the business, I
>literally dropped out for a little over a decade. When I saw all the new
>morphs a few years ago I decided to try to get back into the game. (Gods, I
>feel like I am trying to explain evolution to a mushroom). And something
>else you are not getting,.. I never said that I thought Bob tried to kill
>my
>snakes. Never said that. I only said that I bought a lot of snakes with
>problems and got some VERY expensive missexed males and wondered if the
>missexing was deliberate. How in the world can ANYONE missex a 3,500
>snake??
>Let alone THREE!! No,.. Bob had nothing to do with what happened to my
>colonies in the late 80's. I was told by confidants that Wes and Jay Brewer
>had orchestrated it. But I seriously doubt that Wes had anything to do with
>the "orchestrating" as he seems too dumb for that. But anyways,.. that's the
>past and the past remains the past.
> And I don't have a "sob story". I don't care what happens to the Brian or Damon names. I couldn't care less. But I DO care if my friends and
>associates think I'm a thief. Man dude,.. get a clue.

Now, Damon, that would make someone think that YOU sold the snakes, not that your girlfriend/ex did this while you in jail. THAT is where I got my info, again form what you said. Not trying to prove you wrong here, Damon, but which is it? On page 114 of this very thread (on the REALLY long post you made) you said "While I was locked up my girlfriend left me. This was during the first month. Right after this I got word through the grapevine that she had sold my entire collection/colony to the two gay guys that had been customers of ours. There was nothing I could do."

This would tell me that you knew NOTHING of the sale of your collection and therefore you would not have had the chance to tell anyone about the animals being sick PRIOR to buying them.

I am not trying to turn the tables on you, but like I told you from the VERY BEGINNING, I call it like I see it. Here, I see that the story changes from your post on pg. 114 vs. the email I cut and pasted above from the emails between you and I in Dec.

 

[Wilomn]

One other very important point just came to mind.

YOU insisted MANY times that the snakes YOU sold to the gay guys were sold to them AFTER YOU TOLD THEM THE SNAKES WERE SICK. Did they even know the snakes were sick? If so who told them?

I guess if we believe that your ex sold them then we can also believe you when you say YOU never sold any sick snakes.

Except that you said you sold them and then said you didn't.

Except that you said you told the buyers that they were sick and then said you didn't sell them.

What is it we can believe????

Right now just about nothing.

Wes Pollock

 

[Brian Oakley]

Sorry, just to add, this would mean your email was correct to a point. You DID drop out of things for a decade or so (I presume) and your snakes were sold. You just did not mention to me in the original email that it was your girlfriend that sold them while you were in jail. Then you would have to take out the part about them knowing about the sickness.........unless you are going to tell me they contacted you in jail to ask about the health. THis would not make sense because then you would have known about the fact that she (girlfriend) was trying to sell your snakes and, rightfully so, you would have done what you could do from jail to stop it.
Just calling it like I see it.

 

[Josh Burm Guy]

This is one of the more reasonable things I've seen you write. Not just to me, but in general. But there are still a few problems here. I will point them out in order.

But for better or worse, that's what this thread is about...letting people tell their experiences with you, some people refuting what you assert, and the reader making up his or her own mind.

I can see where a thread should be about these things. And I don't dispute what slackass and the other recipients of my angry literary outbursts said pertaining to their only interaction with me. But they went beyond that and stated heresay and rumor as FACT. Al (realvenum) said I was a thief and had ripped off Prehistoric Pets. Patrick (slackass) said I had kidnapped rebecca and had held her hostage in my home at gunpoint. Not only did none of these things ever happen, but it is not direct experiences with the guys posting these lies. Don't you think there is something just a little wrong with this? Where someone that has never met me can come post such outragious lies as FACT? As if they had witnessed the alleged event/s?

The experiences that people have are the experiences you gave them...they are your responsibility. You can't just time shift and divorce yourself from them simply because you don't think they fit the "whole you" that you believe you are.

Again,... I don't deny anything truthful that has been said about me. I have no problem with someone saying something truthful. It's those absurd lies that I have a HUGE problem with. You think it's okay for someone to post awful lies and the unbiased reader to evalute me by them? I don't.

I have no interest in running you down, it's not the goal here. Giving people a fair chance to assess you is.

Now this is complete BS. All you and the bc crew have done over the last two years is "run me down" and try to drag me down wherever I go. When I left the bc forums I went to ssnakes.com. I was posting there very friendly like and getting along with all the people. You and the rest of the rat pack ran me down and did what was done here in this thread until I was banned. So I went to Morelia.com. Again I was posting nicely there, getting along with EVERYBODY, sharing knowledge, helping out and again you guys came along and did what was done here with this thread until I was banned. That coincidently was also on New Years and most of you guys emailed me and asked me how I "liked my New Years present". Then I went to Kingsnake. I posted there for a while, again getting along with most, helping anyone out that I could and again along came you guys to try to destroy me. Kingsnake didn't allow it, it was deleted and almost went away. But that was when Dr. Owens posted the first lie saying that I had burguralized Prehistoric Pets and other people too. Well, that stuck in people's heads. That was very damaging and I lost customers over it. Then, a few months later it begins in here, AGAIN right at New Years (coincidence?). Again the lies fly, slightly melded with bits of awful truth to lend the lies credibility. So no Randy, I certainly would not believe for a second that it wasn't about "running me down and giving people a fair chance to assess me". The record is quite clear that it was the exact opposite.

Some people will give you a pass based on your level of forthrightness here, some won't.; both are valid choices in my opinion based on your behavior. When you start selling snakes regularly, those experiences will eclipse anything containedhere...so I hope that goes well for you and your future customers.

Randy May

About this,.... I don't think that anyone involved in this thread that is already against me will "give me a pass". But quite frankly I couldn't care less about them or what they think or feel. I would never want to know anyone that acts the way they have here. I wouldn't sell them a garter snake for a million dollars if my life depended on it. For any unbiased reader that takes the time to read this whole thread I think the truth is very transparent that the sole purpose of this thread was simply to make me look bad and I am not in the least concerned as to whether or not they are potential customers. Nothing at any time has been proven that I have ever done poor reptile business. I have great snakes at rock bottom prices and a clean business track record. The snakes will practically sell themselves. I have actually gotten numerous orders specifically because of this thread from people that think what has been done here is total bs. (they prefer that thier names remain out of this). So there is certainly a silver lining on this dingy cloud.

 

[Wilomn]

Same old brian/damon/josh.

Not answering the questions. Lying about his past. Trying to play the sympathy card.

Sorry dude, no pity party for you.

What's the real story with the sick snakes?

If your customers are so happy to buy from you why, if there are actually any customers to speak of, would they be so adverse to having it known that they do business with you? Most folks brag about who they get there animals from, almost like, and pay attention here because it's important, almost like they were PROUD to have gotten babies from that person.

Can you say any of your customers were PROUD to do business with you. Oh wait, you don't have any customers yet, do you?

Well maybe one of them will be proud enough of doing business with you to brag about it.

Or maybe not.

Wes Pollock

 

[Josh Burm Guy]

Sorry, just to add, this would mean your email was correct to a point. You DID drop out of things for a decade or so (I presume) and your snakes were sold. You just did not mention to me in the original email that it was your girlfriend that sold them while you were in jail. Then you would have to take out the part about them knowing about the sickness.........unless you are going to tell me they contacted you in jail to ask about the health. THis would not make sense because then you would have known about the fact that she (girlfriend) was trying to sell your snakes and, rightfully so, you would have done what you could do from jail to stop it.
Just calling it like I see it.

Yes I did! And here are the emails to prove it. I don't know how to highlight things, but the email from me to you where I tell you the entire story, including the part about my gf selling the snakes! is right between two of your replies. The part about her selling the snakes is somewhere in the middle of my email.

> > > > >From: "Brian Oakley" <[email protected]>
> > > > >To: "Brian Smith" <[email protected]>
> > > > >Subject: RE: serious email, no sarcasm
> > > > >Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:25:03 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >First of all, and only to the best of my recollection as I do not
> >want
> > >to
> > > > >read the 80something pages all over again, I have not done anything
> >to
> > > > >Sybella. That is that and if you can show me where I did, I will
> > > > >acknowledge it.
> > > >
> > > >I did not imply that you personally said anything about her. You tend
> >to
> > > >always think I am talking about you, but I'm not. I just said "rude
> > > >comments
> > > >drew her back". I never meant that they were made by you.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >I appreciate what you are saying, but some things are not clear to
> > > > >me..........sorry.
> > > > >What kind of "falling out" (not quoting you) did you and Danny
>have?
> >I
> > > >was
> > > > >told you all were staying together and then you all had a falling
> >out.
> > > > >With that said, was it not the Crypto Danny got in his collection
> >that
> > > > >spread to yours (or something like that) and not the fact that the
> > >snakes
> > > > >came from Bob? Again, I ask you rather than assume things. Let me
> >add
> > > > >that
> > > > >if I am getting before and after prison confused, I apologize.
> > > >
> > > >I never had a falling out with Danny. He's my best friend and I love
> >him
> > > >like a brother. My house was in escrow and was about to be sold. He
>had
> > >to
> > > >move out. He went to his brother's house.
> > > >
> > > >His snakes were sick and had mites, but they were housed well away
>from
> > >my
> > > >clean colonies. Nothing from his snakes ever came in contact with
>mine.
> >I
> > > >don't have any sick snakes now. Those that were sick either were
>cured
> > >and
> > > >are fine now or died from their illnesses. All had been in severe
> > > >quarantine.
> > > >
> > > >Yes, you often do confuse the past with the present. I never once
> >thought
> > > >that Bob was trying to deliberately sell me sick snakes. I will never
> > >think
> > > >that. I just think it was a terrible accident.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Please tell me how you can prove that Bob did anything to your
> > > >collection.
> > > > >It just does not make sense that a BIG breeder (you and I both know
> > >that)
> > > > >would have to purchase snakes to send to you to infect your
> >collection.
> > > > >Like I said before (and this would go for me as well) how could he
> >even
> > > > >worry about you as a SEVERE level of competition? Hell he has
>YEARS
> > >head
> > > > >start on you.
> > > >
> > > >Again,. I do not think, nor have I ever thought that Bob ever did
> > >anything
> > > >deliberately to me or my colony. What happened to me with the snakes
> >that
> > > >were deliberately infected and sold to me was in the late 80's. I
> >fought
> > >it
> > > >for over 2 years. That has NOTHING to do with Bob. k?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >What are the ties between you and Wes? By reading his threads
>(that
> >is
> > > >all
> > > > >I can go by) he say he does not know you.
> > > > >Do you know of anything regarding the theft at his place? What
>about
> > > > >prehistoric pets? Like I said Damon, I am just looking for truth.
> > >That
> > > >is
> > > > >it!
> > > >
> > > >Me and Wes did some business in the 80's with pythons and boas. I
>don't
> > > >know
> > > >why he doesn't remember me. I know nothing about any theft at his
>place
> > >or
> > > >Prehistoric Pets. I have never stolen anything nor do I know anyone
> >that
> > > >may
> > > >have.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Finally, and I will look for your reply, you can hate me if you
>want.
> > > >Like
> > > > >I told you last week, all I wanted was the WHOLE story. All
>bull<font color=red>[bleep]</font>
> > > >left
> > > > >aside, just facts. I cannot control your past, hell I cannot
>control
> > >MY
> > > > >past. Like you said, it is in the past. I also believe that past
> > > >behavior
> > > > >is a good indicator of future behavior............but is NOT a
> >science
> > > >and
> > > > >always hold true.
> > > > >I have said nothing bad about you. I have made ZERO accusations.
>I
> > >WILL
> > > > >ask questions though, but I do not believe I ever said "Damon
> >did...."
> > >or
> > > > >"Damon is ...."
> > > > >With that said, I look forward to your response and I too believe I
> > >will
> > > >be
> > > > >done once and for all on the "Brian Smith" thread on the BOI
> > > >
> > > >Okay, fair enough. I realize that you don't know me and you only know
> > >what
> > > >you read and hear. No hard feeling here on my end. I wish you all the
> > >best
> > > >with you and your animals and breeding. I'm sorry that things got bad
> > > >between us even if only breifly. Take Care, Damon
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Brian Oakley
> > > > >Phoenix, Arizona
> > > > >[email protected]
> > > > >
> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: Brian Smith [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > > >Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:03 PM
> > > > >To: [email protected]
> > > > >Subject: RE: serious email, no sarcasm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Brian,
> > > > > No, I don't care if you post it. I already know that Ritchie
>will
> > > >pick
> > > > >it
> > > > >apart and find a way to show that it is not true though. He won't
>let
> > > >this
> > > > >thing go, I already know that. The weird thing is that I never had
> >any
> > > > >personal conflict with him in the past. At least not to my
>knowledge.
> > > > > I wasn't "broke down". I just really did not care anymore what
> > >anyone
> > > > >thought at that point. So what difference did it make if I admitted
> >to
> > > >all
> > > > >things? I am just tired of having to follow this thread. I have a
>lot
> > >of
> > > > >animals to care for and I'm falling behind having to be here so
>much.
> >I
> > > >was
> > > > >hoping to put an end to it with that. Oh well, it didn't work, I
> >guess.
> > > > > No, I have never lived in the high desert. I grw up in El
>Monte,
> > > >moved
> > > > >to
> > > > >South El Monte when I was about 17 and was off on my own. Moved to
> > > >Glendora
> > > > >for 6 years. Moved to Pasadena when I was about 23. Moved to the
> > > >outskirts
> > > > >of Palm Springs when I was 24. Went to prison for 4 years of a 6
>year
> > > > >sentence. The girl I was with sold all my stuff, including all the
> > > >snakes.
> > > > >I
> > > > >didn't want to admit it before because I was/am pretty damn
> >embarrassed
> > > > >about it, but I never sold my stock. I wouldn't have quit on it, on
> > >them.
> > > >I
> > > > >loved my snakes. But she left me the first month I was locked up
>and
> > > >began
> > > > >selling all my stuff. The part was true about Nick and "Steve". She
> > >sold
> > > > >the
> > > > >snakes to those customers of ours as well as all the cages and
> > >supplies.
> > > >A
> > > > >colony I had been building for over a decade. Very very few were
> > >actually
> > > > >sick at that point. I had began to get a handle on the problem via
> > >severe
> > > > >quarantine and isolation methods and things were begining to look
>up.
> > > >When
> > > > >I
> > > > >got out of prison I had 200 dollars gate money and nothing else to
>my
> > > >name.
> > > > >My ex had sold all my possessions. I was forced to move in with my
> > >sister
> > > > >for a year until I got on my feet. I became an alcoholic and
>partied
> > >away
> > > > >my
> > > > >horrible reality, telling myself that I was just having fun and was
> > >still
> > > > >cool. Then a few years ago I met and fell in love with the girl
>that
> > > >would
> > > > >become my wife. She changed my life and made me rearrange my
> > >priorities.
> > > >I
> > > > >no longer only had only my future to take into consideration. I had
> >to
> > > > >think
> > > > >of her and her future now. So I decided to get back into what I
>once
> > >knew
> > > > >best,.. breeding snakes. I researched the market and found out
>about
> > >all
> > > > >the
> > > > >wonderful morphs and decided to go with them. So I contacted Bob
>and
> > > >began
> > > > >buying what was to be my breeding stock. Half of what I bought were
> > > > >yearling, subadults. Not all were little babies. What problems I
>had
> > >with
> > > > >some of the snakes isn't really relevant here, but the snake skin I
> > > >listed
> > > > >on Ebay is. It led me to a forum I would have never posted in. I
>had
> >an
> > > > >instant falling out with Owens and we have had severe personality
> > > >conflicts
> > > > >ever since. Up until about 3 months ago him and his buddies would
> > >follow
> > > >me
> > > > >wherever I went and would do what you guys are doing to me right
>now.
> > > > >Attempt to ruin me at any cost. It worked every time because Owens
> >has
> > > > >credibility and I did send angry emails. But I was trying to let it
> >all
> > > >go.
> > > > >I finally had to threaten to expose the facts about the sick snakes
>I
> > >got
> > > > >from Bob to make him back off. That's what I showed you before but
> >you
> > > > >failed to recognize it for what it was. But it worked. He
>immediately
> > > > >deleted negative threads and they left me alone. Until now. Like I
> >said
> > > > >many
> > > > >times, I finally quit drinking in October of last year. I quit for
> > >good.
> > > > >For
> > > > >forever. So now I have a hold on my temper and I no longer go all
> >crazy
> > > >on
> > > > >folks that are picking on me.
> > > > > I don't know what else to tell you Brian, other than that most
>of
> > > >what
> > > > >you are likely hearing isn't true. I'm not a bad person and I have
> >good
> > > > >friends and happy customers. I chose to not bring any of them into
> >this
> > > > >mess
> > > > >because they would have been discredited and dragged through the
>mud
> > > >along
> > > > >with me. I'm used to these attacks, I know how they always end. I
> >asked
> > > > >Thomas to post one thing only. A statement by me that he didn't
>know
> > >what
> > > > >he
> > > > >was getting into and that I didn't want him there posting on my
> >behalf.
> > >I
> > > > >knew you guys would rip him up until he cracked, and that's what
> > > >happened.
> > > > >You did it to Sybella too. Shame on you guys for that. She's a
> > >beautiful
> > > > >person and doesn't deserve that. I also pleaded with her to not get
> > > >herself
> > > > >involved, but she was dragged into it with rude comments directed
>at
> > >her.
> > > > > Feel free to post this and anything else you want to post. I
>have
> > > > >nothing
> > > > >at all to hide. It's all on the table. Now we just see how this
>whole
> > > >thing
> > > > >ends.
> > > > > No hard feelings to you even though I know you have
>been
> > >led
> > > > >to
> > > > >believe I am a bad person and posted accordingly. ake Care, Damon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Brian Oakley" <[email protected]>
> > > > > >To: "Brian Smith" <[email protected]>
> > > > > >Subject: RE: serious email, no sarcasm
> > > > > >Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:32:28 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Damon,
> > > > > >I can give ANYONE benefit of doubt. What have you sent me that
> >shows
> > > > > >anything as being true? You sent me some emails, none of which
> > >proved
> > > > > >anything. I never said I did not want to believe you and I never
> > >said
> > > >I
> > > > > >did. I just want the FACTS and I REALLY feel you are leveling
>with
> > >me
> > > > >now.
> > > > > >I am not looking to "win" Damon. I have nothing TO win here. In
> > >fact,
> > > > >all
> > > > > >lose out on this deal. I really feel it sad that it is all
>coming
> > >out.
> > > > >On
> > > > > >the other hand, I hope it gives you a sense of relief, you can go
> >on
> > > >and
> > > > >do
> > > > > >your best at BEING THE BEST you can. I am not preaching. I am
>NOT
> > >any
> > > > > >better than anyone else.
> > > > > >If you never ripped anyone off, why would you say you did? Would
> >you
> > > > >admit
> > > > > >to anything people said if they "broke you down" enough? Truth
> >will
> > > > >always
> > > > > >pay off in the long run, I really feel that way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Was I right in the part of you living in the "high desert"? I
>ask
> > > >these
> > > > > >questions, NOT so I can say I told you so, but so I can know if I
> >was
> > > >on
> > > > > >the
> > > > > >right track or not. May not be anything to you, but I just want
>to
> > > >know.
> > > > > >Would it not be beneficial to post all that you told me on the
>BOI?
> > > > >Maybe
> > > > > >people will respect you a bit more if you did not play the games.
> > >Who
> > > > > >knows. I do not think this was a "witch hunt", I just think
>people
> > >are
> > > > > >looking for answers, just like I was/am. I would not have been
>as
> > > > >involved
> > > > > >as I was/am had I not received all the info you sent to me. I
>just
> > > >find
> > > > >it
> > > > > >hard to believe. All you have told me is that you received some
> > > >missexed
> > > > > >snakes, this of which was clearly addressed in your emails and
>was
> > > > > >attempted
> > > > > >to be fixed. You told me yourself that you purchased animals
>that
> > >had
> > > > > >"kinks", but that it did not bother you because all you wanted to
> >do
> > > >was
> > > > > >breed them and did not feel it would hamper that goal.
> > > > > >I may be wrong, Damon, but at THIS TIME, I just do not see what
> > >anyone
> > > > >did.
> > > > > >Who sent you the "Sick" snakes in question? You told me that Wes
> > > >didn't
> > > > > >because he was not smart enough. If you know who DID NOT send
> >them,
> > > >you
> > > > > >must have an idea who did. Do you know for sure that it was not
> > >simply
> > > >a
> > > > > >purchase you made that went bad? You said the snakes came form
>an
> > > > > >anonymous
> > > > > >person. Why would you keep those snakes if you did not know who
> >they
> > > > >came
> > > > > >from or who sent them?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Do you know ANYTHING about PP and their lost animals? Like I
>have
> > >said
> > > > > >before, this is a small community, word gets out at times and
>gets
> > > > >around.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I appreciate you leveling with me, by the way. I think it takes
> > >allot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Brian Oakley
> > > > > >Phoenix, Arizona
> > > > > >[email protected]

 

[Brian Oakley]

Damon, let me admit now, I did not re-read the whole entire string of emails. It was painful enough that night, yet to do it all again.
This is from your email that I posted on the previous page here on the BOI.......

"When I
>sold my remaining sick snakes it was all to a couple of guys that knew they
>were sick and were buying them CHEAP. "

How can that mean the same as your girlfriend sold them while you were in jail? How could the guys know they were sick if you were in jail?
PLEASE answer just those questions (or explain is fine).