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brumation ??? sick ??? help !!

T

tia_michelle

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hi
Having trouble with my mali he never eats ! and all he does is sleep. if i pick him up he perks up and will "" crusie " around the house but other wise he sleeps. My female runs around like a chicken with it's head cut off, but my boy just sleeps ?? he is getting even skinnyer. anyone know much about the brumation period? his day time temps are 108 -114 and night time runs around 75. 14 hour days and 10 hour nights. any advice would be great thanks from a new mali owner
trish
 
I don't have any experience with uros, but I've done a fair amount of reading about them in the last year and have experience with a broad array of other herps. Brumating lizards shouldn't exhibit a rapid marked weight loss, and your temps and day light hours seem like they should be sufficient to stave off brumation. My chuckwallas have pretty much the same photoperiod and temps as your uros and neither are showing any signs of trying to brumate. My guess would be parasites. They seem to be a very common problem. I'd suggest getting a fecal done asap. If you can get the problem diagnosed and begin treatment before the lizard is deathly ill, your chances of success are much greater. The kingsnake.com uro forum is pretty active so if you run into any problems that require a prompt response from knowledgeable keepers, it would be worth cross posting there.

Good luck with your guy!
Alice
 
First thing if he isn't eating, soak him in some warm water at least every other day for about 10 minutes or so to allow him to drink.

Second thing I'd up the basking temperature to 130°. Not the whole cage to 130°, just the basking spot. Uromastyx like it hot, hot, hot and 108°-114° is not hot enough.

Third thing if you have them together, I'd separate them until he is eating on a regular basis.

Also as the other person posted, these animals do have parasites because most of them are wild caught. I would have them both checked by a vet and then treated properly for parasites.

Oh and previous poster was correct in the fact that at the temps you're keeping him at are not brumtion temps. Brumation temps are around 55-60° day and night. If you brumated your uro in his present condition, he would most likely die.
 
hi,
thanks for the info, he has not had rapid weight loss, he was thin when I got him about 3 weeks ago, as far as I can tell he is eating a few 3-4 peas,beans or greens a day.. but seems to me he is thinner than when I got him ? we have been soaking him every second night because of a sore on his foot which seems to have healed but there is still some swelling in the area( this does not seem to bother him at all ). The vets in my town have little or no experience in lizzards....uuuggg. I work in a pharmacy so I have access to meds could treat him for paracites, anyone know the symtoms other than weight loss ? thanks you all are a great help !
trish
 
Then separate him from the other one and up those temps.

Is soaking him supposed to be treatment for the sore or swollen foot?
 
hi, there was actually and open wound on his foot when we got him (poor thing) so we were soaking him to clean it and then we would massage in some polysporin while he dried. the area looks good other than the swelling now. I have also been putting a little antibiotic in his soak water the last day or two to make sure there is no internal infection going on ( he seems to drink his bath water ). He actually had some seed today, so I hope all in on the mend. I did grab some metronidizole, to use if I see any signs of paraciets. well let me know if you come across any other ideas. will try to post a picture of him if i can.
trish
 
The Flagyl will work for things like protozoans, but there are other drugs such as Pancur for nematodes, Albon for coccidia etc. Before you put a lizard through the rigors of a parasite treatment, you really need to know what you need to treat. Most vets can preform a fecal even those not specializing in herps. If you have access to a microscope, fecasol and some resources for identifying parasites, you could do your own floats. Understanding Reptile Parasites by Dr. Roger Klingenberg, DVM has a great step by step tutorial for doing fecals. It even tells you haw to mix a sugar solution for use in lieu of fecasol, but I've found fecasol a lot easier to use and almost every veterinarian is more than willing to order it for you. It also lists the drugs of choice and appropriate doses.

-Alice
 
hi, wow you really know your stuff thank-you a million times this info was very helpful. My boy seems to be more on the go now but I have written down all the info for further reference, one more question though ( sorry) can they get paracites again if they have already been treated ?? thanks trish
 
this is grisson a few days after we got him :0)
 

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tia_michelle said:
one more question though ( sorry) can they get paracites again if they have already been treated
Click to expand...

Yes they can get parasites again even if they have been treated. The various treatments are also often effective only at certain life stages. Pancur, for example, will kill the adult worms but won't affect the eggs. So your lizard could ingest these eggs and re-infect himself. The same principle applies for Albon and coccidia, even while undergoing treatment the lizard would be shedding infectious parasites. Frequent cleaning goes hand in hand with treatment and vets will usually prescribe multiple rounds of meds to get any of the parasites that made it through the first round. The break between treatment cycles will give your lizard a chance to recover from the effects of the meds (I believe the Understanding Reptile Parasites gives dosing regimes).

Feeder insects can also serve as vectors. Crickets roaming the cage will frequently munch on feces, and when eaten your lizard will get a dose of parasites. So, if you're feeding insects make sure to only put in an amount that can be quickly consumed, and make sure that no feces are present for the bugs to munch.

Vegetarians like uros (and my chuckwallas), typically carry a variety of parasites and bacteria in the wild, some of which aid in digestion. Young lizards will even eat the droppings of adults to get this flora. In a healthy lizard, the immune system is enough to keep these parasites in check, but when subjected to the stresses of importation and adapting to a captive environment, the parasites can gain the upper hand and medication is necessary to get them under control. Products on the market such as benebac contain beneficial bacteria and can be given after treatments for parasites to restore some of the natural flora.

You've got a cute little guy, I really hope he does okay!

-Alice
 
Upping the temps like Karen suggested, keeping handling to a minimum and removing the cagemate, will help reduce stress. Many lizards also feel very insecure in glass tanks, try covering at least three sides (I had to cover all three sides and most of the front when I was trying to get one of my chucks acclimated). Covering the sides can really help shy lizards. It makes them feel more secure when venturing out into the open to visit the food bowl.

-Alice
 
HI, took grissom out for him roam and soak today and I am so excited to say he was full of p & V. full out running and climbing vertical on the sofa. He seems to be feeling better. there is big doo doo (haha) in the cage today so he must be eating ! thank-you for letting me know about the cricket thing. We have been giving him crickets to fatten him up, he will eat 4 or 5 but he seems to prefer the veggies and seed. I put out about a cup of salad and frozen mix (thawed) and he seems to eat about half. He has seed all the time which I am mixing with juvenile iguana pellets, It hold about half a cup and I gets filled about once a week. I also put in a new hide and made it so he could get closer to his light (150w).
I hope he is going to do well as I am already smitten :0). I think the whole family is ! we are partial to grissom, more than Kathryn as he seems to interact an be more patient with us. I think I will call the vet on Monday they are only 1 block from us so dropping off will be easy.
thank-you for all your great info ! will post pics of both tommorrow ( i know how now !)
trish
 
I know I'm pretty late on this and it may not even get read, but for a good protien source, give your Uros dry split peas and lintels.
 
HI,
Unfortunatley we lost Grissom two weeks ago :0( thanks for the info, last week I did get some 14 bean mix for Kathryn. some of the beans are pretty big and try as she might she just can't munch them, will be grinding them a bit from now on. I herd kidney beans were a no no so I have been removing them.
trish
 
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